Ygrain Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Wow, if Robert was the one who dishonoured Wenda, it would be one hell of a connection... I like this idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Wow, if Robert was the one who dishonoured Wenda, it would be one hell of a connection... I like this idea! Except wasn't Robby busy dishonouring women in the Eyrie during the time of the Kingswood Brotherhood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 .....Simon Toyne unhorsed Rhaegar Targaryen at a tourney at Storm's End...I assuming this information is correct in spite of timeline discrepancy in the books....in any case, this was also an ideal time for stormlords and ladies to get acquainted with Steffon's heir.... Small correction. It was Rhaegar who unhorsed Toyne. Rhaegar's known jousting record includes only two losses, both in the finals; Dayne at Lannisport 276, and Selmy at Storm's End. “When he was young, His Grace rode brilliantly in a tourney at Storm’s End, defeating Lord Steffon Baratheon, Lord Jason Mallister, the Red Viper of Dorne, and a mystery knight who proved to be the infamous Simon Toyne, chief of the kingswood outlaws. He broke twelve lances against Ser Arthur Dayne that day.” - ASoS, Daenerys IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avlonnic Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Correction from the wiki for House Toyne:"Barristan misremembered Simon Toyne being the mystery knight that attended a tourney at Storm's End.[3]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Except wasn't Robby busy dishonouring women in the Eyrie during the time of the Kingswood Brotherhood? I'm sure he paid visit to his homeland now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'm sure he paid visit to his homeland now and then. I suppose dishonouring women in just one part of Westeros does get to be a bit dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Correction from the wiki for House Toyne: "Barristan misremembered Simon Toyne being the mystery knight that attended a tourney at Storm's End.[3]" Or Barristan was conflating multiple tourneys. Which is more in the spirit of the SSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Small correction. It was Rhaegar who unhorsed Toyne. Rhaegar's known jousting record includes only two losses, both in the finals; Dayne at Lannisport 276, and Selmy at Storm's End. That is not true. Barristan misremembers. Before that tourney, he already slew Simon Toyne. Ser Barristan of House Selmy. Firstborn son of Ser Lyonel Selmy of Harvest Hall. Served as squire to Ser Manfred Swann. Named “the Bold” in his 10th year, when he donned borrowed armor to appear as a mystery knight in the tourney at Blackhaven, where he was defeated and unmasked by Duncan, Prince of Dragonflies. Knighted in his 16th year by King Aegon V Targaryen, after performing great feats of prowess as a mystery knight in the winter tourney at King’s Landing, defeating Prince Duncan the Small and Ser Duncan the Tall, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Slew Maelys the Monstrous, last of the Blackfyre Pretenders, in single combat during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Defeated Lormelle Long Lance and Cedrik Storm, the Bastard of Bronzegate. Named to the Kingsguard in his 23rd year, by Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower. Defended the passage against all challengers in the tourney of the Silver Bridge. Victor in the mêlée at Maidenpool. Brought King Aerys II to safety during the Defiance of Duskendale, despite an arrow wound in the chest. Avenged the murder of his Sworn Brother, Ser Gwayne Gaunt. Rescued Lady Jeyne Swann and her septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood, defeating Simon Toyne and the Smiling Knight, and slaying the former. In the Oldtown tourney, defeated and unmasked the mystery knight Blackshield, revealing him as the Bastard of Uplands. Sole champion of Lord Steffon’s tourney at Storm’s End, whereat he unhorsed Lord Robert Baratheon, Prince Oberyn Martell, Lord Leyton Hightower, Lord Jon Connington, Lord Jason Mallister, and Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. Wounded by arrow, spear, and sword at the Battle of the Trident whilst fighting beside his Sworn Brothers and Rhaegar Prince of Dragonstone. Pardoned, and named Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, by King Robert I Baratheon. Served in the honor guard that brought Lady Cersei of House Lannister to King’s Landing to wed King Robert. Led the attack on Old Wyk during Balon Greyjoy’s Rebellion. Champion of the tourney at King’s Landing, in his 57th year. Dismissed from service by King Joffrey I baratheon in his 61st year, for reasons of advanced age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 snip The way I understood it was that Rhaegar unhorsed Toyne at a different tourney. I suppose I should have added the info, since I was supplying a correction. Thanks. ETA: "In other words, Ser Barristan is undoubtingly conflating events that happened at two or three different tourneys. Any way, that's my story and I'm sticking to it." - GRRM. From the SSM provided Ser Leftwich upthread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It has to be two different tournaments. In one Rhaegar unhorses Lord Steffon Baratheon and in another Barristan unhorses Lord Robert Baratheon. The second must be after Steffon died. ETA: The first might be for the birth of Renly or that Steffon was named to the Small Council after the Defiance of Duskendale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Except wasn't Robby busy dishonouring women in the Eyrie during the time of the Kingswood Brotherhood? He was 18/19 years old by then, a Lord in his own right for a few years. He would have been at Storm's End at times, and at the Eyrie at other times.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avlonnic Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The way I understood it was that Rhaegar unhorsed Toyne at a different tourney. I suppose I should have added the info, since I was supplying a correction. Thanks. ETA: "In other words, Ser Barristan is undoubtingly conflating events that happened at two or three different tourneys. Any way, that's my story and I'm sticking to it." - GRRM. From the SSM provided Ser Leftwich upthread. It is possible that it was a tourney that occurred before Toyne was an outlaw/Kingswood Brother, as the unmasking would have been awkward if he were a wanted man. Per the SSM, it may have been the Jello - er, Peasebury Pudding tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Small correction. It was Rhaegar who unhorsed Toyne. Rhaegar's known jousting record includes only two losses, both in the finals; Dayne at Lannisport 276, and Selmy at Storm's End. Yeah, that's right. I mis-wrote. do we dismiss the event altogether because we can't trust Barristan's memory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 He was 18/19 years old by then, a Lord in his own right for a few years. He would have been at Storm's End at times, and at the Eyrie at other times.. Yes. I think that regardless of when exactly it happened, if there was a tourney at Storm's End Robert was there. Whether it was after or before Steffon's death. I doubt Robert would have missed the opportunity, and the heir of the house (or Lord) being absent from such an event would be odd, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yeah, that's right. I mis-wrote. do we dismiss the event altogether because we can't trust Barristan's memory? I think what matters here is GRRM's intent. Based on his answer in the SSM, I think it's clear his intent was for Ser Barristan's memories to accurately reflect what happened at the tourney. So, Rhaegar probably unhorsed Toyne in an earlier tourney, but the other results are probably accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Could she be both a Swann and a Cafferen? Father is one house, mother is the other? Something like that. The fawn connection fits too neatly not to have a Cafferen connection, but the Swanns are there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Could she be both a Swann and a Cafferen? Father is one house, mother is the other? Something like that. The fawn connection fits too neatly not to have a Cafferen connection, but the Swanns are there too. With Lady Jeyne being her cousin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 With Lady Jeyne being her cousin?Sure. I do think the "saving Jeyne and her septa" thing is a littleon the nose. Everything in the story is there for a reason, so why this? I agree that it ties in somewhere. How the current Swanns and Cafferens fit in, who knows. But there's more going on with the history than we've seen so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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