AGOT Reread- Catelyn

[A wilding]

This was one of the chapters that made me sit up on my first read and decide I was going to look out for the next book as soon as it came out.

In most other authors' hands the end of this chapter would have been pure heroic triumphalism. However, GRRM is more subtle. We view the scene through the eyes of Catelyn, who has doubts, and well justified ones, as to the strategic purpose of continuing the war and of its likely results. As a result there is a tiny taint of possible future tragedy marring Robb's acclamation. I certainly got a faint sense that this was not meant to happen and that it was going to end badly.

[Ser Bootsy of Funkadelica]

I agree - a Renly/Robb alliance at this point would have been devastating to the Lannister cause, even with Stannis still hovering in the background. It makes the later meeting between Stannis and Renly that much more frustrating (as someone who wanted the Lannisters to lose), because a great - probably the best - opportunity to win the war was lost.

I disagree. Stannis and Melissandre are pretty unstoppable in the next book, regardless of the odds. Renly had over 100,000 versus Stannis' sorry group and still lost. Cortnay Penrose had enough to at least hold Stannis off for 6 months to a year...and died in a night. What makes anyone think that Stannis and the Red Woman wouldn't easily take care of Robb? They were all usurper's in her eyes.

[Ser Hippie]

I disagree. Stannis and Melissandre are pretty unstoppable in the next book, regardless of the odds. Renly had over 100,000 versus Stannis' sorry group and still lost. Cortnay Penrose had enough to at least hold Stannis off for 6 months to a year...and died in a night. What makes anyone think that Stannis and the Red Woman wouldn't easily take care of Robb? They were all usurper's in her eyes.

As I stated - a Renly/Robb alliance at that point would have been devastating to the Lannister cause (Stannis having not declared himself king yet). In one stroke you'd have most of the Storm Lords, the Reach, the North and the Riverlands against the Lannisters. The Vale would be hostile to the Lannisters and Dorne would likely be as well. Certainly, by the time that Stannis declares himself king and marches on Storm's End, the situation is very different, but we haven't gotten to that (as this is a reread of AGOT) Even then, though, Renly simply has more and better troops than Stannis, as well as the ability to command loyalty from them. Stannis does not, however much more legal his claim is.

Sure, Melissandre's shadow babies killed Renly and Courtnay Penrose, but neither she nor Stannis are truly "unstoppable" (i.e. Edric Storm escaping, Stannis getting routed, Robb's death being a product of his own mistakes, etc.). Stannis has other problems too - he has nothing to offer the Tyrells since he cannot form a marriage alliance with them, and even his family's own bannermen don't like him.

I'm not saying that a Renly/Robb alliance would have been some uber, Lannister-crushing machine, but it probably would have had the strongest shot at winning the war. A Stannis/Robb alliance might have done it too, but only with Renly dead, and it would be more problematic, since Stannis is much more of a hardline ruler than Renly, and thus much more likely to not get along with Robb and his lords.

[wathombe]

Just starting my first re-read, having read the series for the first time Nov-Jan.

In Catelyn II, I was struck by the end of the chapter. Eddard has just made the hard decision to let Jon take the black:

"When shall we tell Jon?" the maester asked.

"When I must. Preparations must be made. It will be a fortnight before we are ready to depart. I would sooner let Jon enjoy these last few days. Summer will end soon enough, and childhood as well. When the time comes, I will tell him myself."

I'm sad aren't shown the scene when Eddard gives Jon the news.

[Ashur]

Catelyn (XI)

The Greatjon surges to his feet and lays his sword at Robb’s feet, and the other bannermen follow, both Northmen and Riverlords. And for the first time in 300 years, there is a King in the North!

Sometimes i found myself thinking about the "King in the North" issue. It's a very emotive moment, but you know, both the Northmen and the Riverlords united only because of Jon Umber's speech... i find it a bit disturbing. I think there is something that took place in Riverrun related to the council that isn't told to us. That's a reason for telling us the council on a Cat's POV. I won't believe that, regardless the emotive speech of Jon Umber, everyone layed their weapon on Robb's feet as easy as it seems. It must have been some hidden alliances behind all the King in the North stuff. I dont know is there's a discussion about this in the forum, since i can't find it (I'm newbie to the forum)

[RemitMan]

In Catelyn I,

“They are losing men on rangings as well.”

“Is it the wildlings?” Catelyn asked.

“Who else?” – Ned

Who else indeed.

Also,

Ned smiles when he hears that Robert is coming to visit. Even after the grief of Jon Arryn’s death and the execution earlier that day, Ned is still happy to hear that Robert is coming. We never get to hear many of the details of their friendship in the Eyrie, but it seems that Ned may have a blind spot when it comes to Robert. For all the dishonorable, careless, and crude things that Robert does and says, Ned thinks on him fondly. They seem so very different. Their friendship as children and young men must have been very interesting.

I have a few other thoughts at http://asoiaf.ovrnite.com/2011/01/05/a-game-of-thrones-catelyn-i/