R+L=J v.131

[BearQueen87]

It doesn't mean anything.

People are reading too much into it.

It's wishful thinking.

That's not an "R", it's a "P".

It's to trick the fans.

It's too obvious.

...did I miss any?

The magic "c" word....cliche

Also you forgot to call George "Breaker of all the tropes"

It's a guy on a horse playing polo. Guess that one might fall under "it doesn't mean anything".

Lyanna totally played polo on horses!

[Consigliere]

The magic "c" word....cliche

Also you forgot to call George "Breaker of all the tropes"

Lyanna totally played polo on horses!

There are always the classic "go to" responses:

Show =/= books

Show = fanfiction

D&D do not know what they are doing/butchering the story.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

It doesn't mean anything.

People are reading too much into it.

It's wishful thinking.

That's not an "R", it's a "P".

It's to trick the fans.

It's too obvious.

...did I miss any?

The RL is for Redwyn of House Locke....or simply Redwyn Locke. The ranger who went Ranging to Lorn Point...fought Giants and traded with the CotF.

(I made up the Locke part)

[ToTheWolves]

Ralph Lauren = polo player???

[Ser Creighton]

The magic "c" word....cliche

Also you forgot to call George "Breaker of all the tropes"

Lyanna totally played polo on horses!

Well is Martin really out there looking for Tropes to break? It's often mentioned that he does that, but I don't think that is much of an influence on his work in the modern sense. You know the Breat generation was post WWII writers movment and the Post impressionists followed impressionism, and you could probably call Martin a post Tolkien impressionist reaction. They were kind of screwing up fantasy in the 80's. That type of change and movent while there is the rejection or received or perceived standards, it's more about an inovation in style. Like the Beat generation he is very much into portrayals of the human condition. But that is his style that is what he is into, generally following these sort of stagnant periods were everyone is impersonating someone, you get these outbursts or creativity, where people explore different ideas, and different beliefs, they mess around with there own style rather than conform to a standard or status quo. You know he knows what he likes and he knows what he doesn't like and everyone tries to label it something.

2 People getting together is somehow a trope now. Well it's also part of life and a rather common occurence. How can anyone call it a trope when we don't even know what happened. 2 People getting together is pretty much part of life, but that is not the Journey or the story behind it, and that is the important part. He will explore the human condition is that also a trope. You know these overly generalized, and over reaching terms are just so annoying. Oh it snowed out in Winter it is the winter snow globe trope. Snow in Winter is so cliche.

What exactly is the romance trope? Or the two people together trope? I don't know these tropes? A romantic Morif? Oh my, Martin would never do something romantic? Martin would also never kill anyone in a book because it is so cliche. What kind of series is ASOIAF, it's a fantasy so it has a Motif from the get go and that is a Trope. It's not about embracing or breaking Tropes, tropes is a term that has been bastardized in the modern use and gets throne around way to much these days. You can label anything, but then you are really destroying the creativity of the artist. It's easy to look at a Monet and go oh impressionism and Haystacks. But does that begin to describe the beauty of those paintings?

People argue over lebals and don't appreciate the artistic work that is in front of them. People think something is a trope or cliche, or a motif, which does not matter. It's about the story in the end, what he is telling us and how well he tells it, and how it relates to you and speaks to you.

What's next? Are people going to start running around saying love is cliche so I don't like it? It's part of life and the human condition get over it people.

[BearQueen87]

I don't think GRRM subverts as many tropes as he himself sells himself to do. I think, rather, he plays with them. He'll keep somethings the same but subtly change them to make it more interesting. Jon is most assuredly "the hidden prince" but it's not like he's going to start going all Iron Throne crazy one he learns; and Jon, and the other heroes, aren't just white hats who march through life doing all the good things. Sometimes, they get blood on their hands.

[Joe Pine]

Ok this is horrible and almost certainly not true. But what if the cost of Jon's resurrection was Bran. Bloodraven tells Bran he arrived late, maybe he got there just in time so Bloodraven could kill him and revive Jon to be the ultimate Other killing machine. Or alternatively have Bran skinchang into the deadish Jon as Bloodraven skinchanges Coldhands.

Dunno, if Bran involved than maybe there's a crossover with Theon getting executed at the tree rather than Bran being sacrificed. Whether that's Theon dies/Jon lives or whatever variable between the Bran Tree and Mel fire Magic.

I have doubts as to how workable Jon into dog really is as a narrative device and I'm hoping it's not used.

[Ser Leftwich]

Tropes are so cliche. And cliches are so trope.

[BearQueen87]

Dunno, if Bran involved than maybe there's a crossover with Theon getting executed at the tree rather than Bran being sacrificed. Whether that's Theon dies/Jon lives or whatever variable between the Bran Tree and Mel fire Magic.

I have doubts as to how workable Jon into dog really is as a narrative device and I'm hoping it's not used.

Jon won't be inside Ghost forever, though. And he's turned into a dog...he is warging, like Bran and Arya have done

[Kingmonkey]

Anyway the Wights were locked away on the warm day because Jeor wanted Aemon to have a chance to examine them. As the sun began to set a wind out of the North began to rise and with it came the Cold.

Right, with you. The cold wind rose from the north, and then the wights rose. My reading is that wind was not accompanying the wights, but was accompanying the Others, who were still north of the wall. Coldhands couldn't go through the wall, so why could the two "dead" wights? I'd guess they were Trojan Wights, deactivated to get through the wall's magical defence, and then reactivated when the Others approach the wall from the north.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Before the battle of the Bells, Robert was wounded and while he was recovering, he slept with one and many whores.

After one of his battles, Robb was wounded and while he was recovering, he slept with Jeyne Westerling and broke his engagement to some Frey girl.

Both happened while Sansa, Arya and Lyanna were still "kidnapped"/kept as hostages. The truth is that Arya had escaped and Sansa got married, although against her will. Lyanna probably also escaped on her own with Rhaegar but married him with her own conscent.

[BearQueen87]

Before the battle of the Bells, Robert was wounded and while he was recovering, he slept with one and many whores.

After one of his battles, Robb was wounded and while he was recovering, he slept with Jeyne Westerling and broke his engagement to some Frey girl.

Both happened while Sansa, Arya and Lyanna were still "kidnapped"/kept as hostages. The truth is that Arya had escaped and Sansa got married, although against her will. Lyanna probably also escaped on her own with Rhaegar but married him with her own conscent.

:thumbsup:

Very nice parallels.

[The Twinslayer]

It's a guy on a horse playing polo. Guess that one might fall under "it doesn't mean anything".

Nah, it kind of looks like Young Griff to me.

[Joe Pine]

Jon won't be inside Ghost forever, though. And he's turned into a dog...he is warging, like Bran and Arya have done

Uh-huh, but whilst inside the big dog, can he make it talk like a person? My guess No. He can't warg back out the dog if his body dies from the multiple stabbing.

So by warging, he's life sentenced to dog food from being almost a prince.

It's better that Mr Martin kills him, rather than Mel and Val looking at the big dog and thinking I wonder if Jon is inside? - woof!

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Before the battle of the Bells, Robert was wounded and while he was recovering, he slept with one and many whores.

After one of his battles, Robb was wounded and while he was recovering, he slept with Jeyne Westerling and broke his engagement to some Frey girl.

Both happened while Sansa, Arya and Lyanna were still "kidnapped"/kept as hostages. The truth is that Arya had escaped and Sansa got married, although against her will. Lyanna probably also escaped on her own with Rhaegar but married him with her own conscent.

You're lucky you're in a different hemisphere right now! :leer:

Making sense makes me Randy.

Well not really...but the wine I'm drinking makes me loopy.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Uh-huh, but whilst inside the big dog, can he make it talk like a person? My guess No. He can't warg back out the dog if his body dies from the multiple stabbing.

So by warging, he's life sentenced to dog food from being almost a prince.

It's better that Mr Martin kills him, rather than Mel and Val looking at the big dog and thinking I wonder if Jon is inside? - woof!

Obviously you don't know how powerful Jon is!

[Joe Pine]

Obviously you don't know how powerful Jon is!

I'd bin the book if he becomes a talking dog.

[BearQueen87]

Uh-huh, but whilst inside the big dog, can he make it talk like a person? My guess No. He can't warg back out the dog if his body dies from the multiple stabbing.

So by warging, he's life sentenced to dog food from being almost a prince.

It's better that Mr Martin kills him, rather than Mel and Val looking at the big dog and thinking I wonder if Jon is inside? - woof!

Well I don't think Jon's body is going to die. And some think his consciousness might bounce back and forth for a bit. And many more think that Ghost will be sacrificed, sending Jon back to his body; extreme cold slows blood flow

And you don't seem to have a lot of confidence in GRRM is all you think Mel and Val are going to do is look at the dog and wonder if Jon is inside. One of them at least has some magic, even if she's also a bit of a fraud. And lots of theories about Val out there.

I'd bin the book if he becomes a talking dog.

...no one is saying that.

[Joe Pine]

Well I don't think Jon's body is going to die. And some think his consciousness might bounce back and forth for a bit. And many more think that Ghost will be sacrificed, sending Jon back to his body; extreme cold slows blood flow

I'm hoping he doesn't die, but doggy dreams whilst he's in a coma might not be that great a read.

And you don't seem to have a lot of confidence in GRRM is all you think Mel and Val are going to do is look at the dog and wonder if Jon is inside. One of them at least has some magic, even if she's also a bit of a fraud. And lots of theories about Val out there

Given the meandering subplots in Essos for Dany and the various characters that wondered around the riverlands to little real point, I think Mr Martin has on a few occasions, not quite got it right.

I'm quietly dreading Howland Reed being revealed for him to ask 'Where's Jon?, I must talk with him' to meet a reply of ' oh, he's in the big dog'

[JonCon's Red Beard]

You're lucky you're in a different hemisphere right now! :leer:

Making sense makes me Randy.

Well not really...but the wine I'm drinking makes me loopy.

I Still Pain Tooth Die Please.... ;____;