dragonprince Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Just finished Jon IV and i known everyone already notices but Jon has changed so much he's truly turned into a Lord. You can see his grooming for leadership by Ned and Lord Commander Mormont is paying off for him. I love the tough decisions he's had to make so far i.e. switching gilleys babe, shorting Janos slynt by a head (Stretch out your neck, my lord.) pure sweetness. Giving stannis the unmanned castles along the wall, and obviously allowing the free folk inside the wall. And after jon gives stannis great counsel as to not attack the Dreadfort but instead rally the mountain clans and attack the Ironborn at Deepwood Motte leds me to believe that out of all Ned Starks children (or at least children he raised) Jon learned the most. Which makes me cringe every time he turns Stannis' offer down to become a Stark and claim Winterfell because i know Jon could rally the north and possibly become even a better Lord and Warden then Ned was seeing how he can be political if need be. I know jon doesn't believe he's worthy but knowing that Robb meant to legitimize Jon and name him his heir makes it sting that much more. Is that just my bias view or does anyone else share the same thought process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dopplerdog Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Without giving anything away because this is a "still reading board", maybe the exact opposite could be argued. Yes, he's grown up quite a bit, but in many ways he's still clinging to his old self and to Ned's sense of honour (which brought Ned down, I might add). Note that this sense of honour and compassion for the innocent (seen in him refusing to behead Ygritte or kill the old man when ordered to by the wildlings) drives him to show compassion even if it puts his duties as NW at risk. He's always trying to help people in need, even if it conflicts with his mission. Remember Joer's advice, that there would always be people in need of help, but that Jon should focus on his duties and responsibilities. Now he's LC, and the question is whether this trait of his is going to be compatible with his duties as LC. And about that ... well, you'll have to see for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonprince Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Without giving anything away because this is a "still reading board", maybe the exact opposite could be argued. Yes, he's grown up quite a bit, but in many ways he's still clinging to his old self and to Ned's sense of honour (which brought Ned down, I might add). Note that this sense of honour and compassion for the innocent (seen in him refusing to behead Ygritte or kill the old man when ordered to by the wildlings) drives him to show compassion even if it puts his duties as NW at risk. He's always trying to help people in need, even if it conflicts with his mission. Remember Joer's advice, that there would always be people in need of help, but that Jon should focus on his duties and responsibilities. Now he's LC, and the question is whether this trait of his is going to be compatible with his duties as LC. And about that ... well, you'll have to see for yourself. Good point and thanks for not spoiling anything! I can't help but think that maester Aemon advise "kill the boy" really influenced Jon and by result becoming less compassionate. I agree all the incidents you mentioned were made out of honor and compassion for others, but that was back in ASOS before becoming Lord Commander and before Aemons counsel. I have to think that switching the babes is not something that jon would have done but a decision Lord Snow is willing to make (as said by Aemon to Sam back in AFFC as they make their way to Braavos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e22ddie46 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Yeah, removing Aemon and Mance's kid is, in my opinion, a brilliant political move as well as obviously the right thing to do. Stannis is, in reality, a problem at the wall. He wants to be king there despite not really being a king, except in name, and has a crazy hot chick who likes setting people on fire. It is very intelligent to remove them from the wall, and to send the message to stannis that "this is my wall (insert jesse pinkman comment here)" and I run stuff. More importantly, murdering Mance's baby would probably cause the wildlings to flip their freaking minds and maybe prefer going back north. Personally though, Jon quickly became my favorite character in book five (especially the fact he tried to keep his personal issues with Janos out of the decision and give the dude a chance). And also, lets not be crazy, Jon isn't fighting for a throne, he is fighting for the human race. He should try to, whenever possible, do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonprince Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Yeah, removing Aemon and Mance's kid is, in my opinion, a brilliant political move as well as obviously the right thing to do. Stannis is, in reality, a problem at the wall. He wants to be king there despite not really being a king, except in name, and has a crazy hot chick who likes setting people on fire. It is very intelligent to remove them from the wall, and to send the message to stannis that "this is my wall (insert jesse pinkman comment here)" and I run stuff. More importantly, murdering Mance's baby would probably cause the wildlings to flip their freaking minds and maybe prefer going back north. Personally though, Jon quickly became my favorite character in book five (especially the fact he tried to keep his personal issues with Janos out of the decision and give the dude a chance). And also, lets not be crazy, Jon isn't fighting for a throne, he is fighting for the human race. He should try to, whenever possible, do the right thing.Exactly my thoughts, Jon isn't seeking any personal benefit from his decisions he's simply just trying to do best for the realm. I believe him helping Stannis is because he believes Stannis is best for the realm, although there is some personal feelings towards the Lannisters. And him giving Janos the chance to take command of a castle on the wall because Jon realized he was one of the only few too have experience in leadership was a sign of his maturing and thinking more like a lord then a boy, but of course Janos sees this a slight and got what he deserved. btw love the breaking bad reference lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e22ddie46 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 haha but yeah, I am mainly basing my statement off the idea that everything, even obeying his oath to the watch (by aiding stannis against the boltons) is second to protecting the realm which is what he is trying to do. Stannis is the only king who is trying to aid the watch after all. But this is based off the fact that the halfhand truly understood the NW since I freaking loved that dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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