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Which character do you think the show has left out will be the biggest mistake by D&D for not including them?


Salvador

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I would have said Euron, but since he's been cast for this season, I don't think any of the left out characters are necessary. All the major and most interesting character are already in

1 hour ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

You can cut characters and add the more important ones in. 

For instance cut everyone in Dorne except for Arianne,

I find show Doran more compelling than book Arianne. I wish he would be at the center of the Dornish plot, rather than Ellaria.

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1 hour ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

You can cut characters and add the more important ones in. 

For instance cut everyone in Dorne except for Arianne, put Aegon , JonCon and Duck in. Now you cut 5-6 bad characters and put in 4 compelling characters in and tied in Varys' and Illyrio's storyline well

 

I don't see any of those characters as important, especially since their arcs are, for the most part, cut from the show.

And 'good' and 'bad' are completely subjective.  I think Arianne is a 'bad' character in the books and don't see why she should be included in the show.  You will obviously disagree.  So I'll leave that part alone.

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1 hour ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Honestly having so many characters breathes life into the world. I hate it when the story is concentrated on like the same 10 people when it's supposed to be an epic fantasy story.

I sometimes feel the show is kinda empty without the rest of characters.

The story in both the show and the books IS concentrated on about ten people in reality.  Just because he keeps adding more characters doesn't mean that those ten or so aren't the main characters of the story.

And I respectfully disagree.  What 'breathes life' into the story is the way the story deals with the characters it has...not how many it has.  You can introduce as many characters as you want, but if you don't back it up by giving him characterization, then they mean nothing.  Most of the characters in the ASOIAF books have little to no characterization, and are simply there to fulfill a single purpose of giving necessary information to one of the main characters.  There are literally thousands of characters in the books, and only a real scholar would be able to recognize all of them immediately.  I've read these books many times and I still can't recognize every character without needing a reference guide at times. 

The show is a different beast entirely.  They have a limited amount of time (compared to the books) to introduce these characters and make us care about them...and they can't afford to weigh their show down with superfluous characters who aren't doing anything that the other, more important, characters couldn't do instead.  So the show economizes and makes the most of what they have.  Someone who has never read the books and has no knowledge of the backstory would most definitely not think the show 'felt empty'. 

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29 minutes ago, sj4iy said:

The story in both the show and the books IS concentrated on about ten people in reality.  Just because he keeps adding more characters doesn't mean that those ten or so aren't the main characters of the story.

And I respectfully disagree.  What 'breathes life' into the story is the way the story deals with the characters it has...not how many it has.  You can introduce as many characters as you want, but if you don't back it up by giving him characterization, then they mean nothing.  Most of the characters in the ASOIAF books have little to no characterization, and are simply there to fulfill a single purpose of giving necessary information to one of the main characters.  There are literally thousands of characters in the books, and only a real scholar would be able to recognize all of them immediately.  I've read these books many times and I still can't recognize every character without needing a reference guide at times. 

The show is a different beast entirely.  They have a limited amount of time (compared to the books) to introduce these characters and make us care about them...and they can't afford to weigh their show down with superfluous characters who aren't doing anything that the other, more important, characters couldn't do instead.  So the show economizes and makes the most of what they have.  Someone who has never read the books and has no knowledge of the backstory would most definitely not think the show 'felt empty'. 

That's absurd. You could make an argument that GRRM gives too much characterization to too many characters .

GRRM has even said he gives each house he creates a secret.

Also there's a joke within the fandom that besides ranting about food, GRRM gets likes to go on a tangent about a person at times 

Watch this satire about these books. It's funny but short: 

 

 

Anyways super minor characters with characterization examples: 

Lem with his bad attitude and having lost all his family 

Tom'O Sevenstreams a singer who Edmure hates and sleeps around a lot 

Daeron who got sent to the Night's Watch for having sex with lord Rowan's daugher and accused of raping her, he hates the NW, he's a douche and he wants to enjoy his life earning money on the skill of his voice 

Tormund just Tormund

Duck, Aegon's mentor, who was the son of the blacksmith at Bitterbridge. He served Lord Caswell and wanted to become a knight. He fled because he broke the heir's arms and ribs after he tried to take his sword 

Sarella Sand, Oberyn's intellectual daugher who poses as a boy at the Citadel so she could learn more

Lord Baelor Blacktyde, an ironborn who was taken hostage while he was young. He spent 8 years at Oldtown and came back as a follower of the Faith. He also doesn't like Balon and blames him for his father's death nonetheless he stands up to Euron claiming Theon is the King of the Iron Islands and gets killed for it 

Axell Florent, the queen's brother and a huge shit. He's extremely ambitious and has designs on Val. He's also very religious and delusional 

Satin is a male whore from Oldtown who Jon makes his steward.

Donal Noye, a loyal Baratheon man who lost one of his arms at the siege of Storm's End. He made Stannis is first sword. He was brave and wise. He was the one that told Jon to literally check his privilege. He died killing the king of the Giants 

 

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12 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

That's absurd. You could make an argument that GRRM gives too much characterization to too many characters .

GRRM has even said he gives each house he creates a secret.

Also there's a joke within the fandom that besides ranting about food, GRRM gets likes to go on a tangent about a person at times 

Watch this satire about these books. It's funny but short: 

 

 

Anyways super minor characters with characterization examples: 

Lem with his bad attitude and having lost all his family 

Tom'O Sevenstreams a singer who Edmure hates and sleeps around a lot 

Daeron who got sent to the Night's Watch for having sex with lord Rowan's daugher and accused of raping her, he hates the NW, he's a douche and he wants to enjoy his life earning money on the skill of his voice 

Tormund just Tormund

Duck, Aegon's mentor, who was the son of the blacksmith at Bitterbridge. He served Lord Caswell and wanted to become a knight. He fled because he broke the heir's arms and ribs after he tried to take his sword 

Sarella Sand, Oberyn's intellectual daugher who poses as a boy at the Citadel so she could learn more

Lord Baelor Blacktyde, an ironborn who was taken hostage while he was young. He spent 8 years at Oldtown and came back as a follower of the Faith. He also doesn't like Balon and blames him for his father's death nonetheless he stands up to Euron claiming Theon is the King of the Iron Islands and gets killed for it 

Axell Florent, the queen's brother and a huge shit. He's extremely ambitious and has designs on Val. He's also very religious and delusional 

Satin is a male whore from Oldtown who Jon makes his steward.

Donal Noye, a loyal Baratheon man who lost one of his arms at the siege of Storm's End. He made Stannis is first sword. He was brave and wise. He was the one that told Jon to literally check his privilege. He died killing the king of the Giants 

 

I never said that GRRM gives too much characterization to too many characters.  I said he creates characters in order to do one specific thing- give information or teach a lesson to one of the main characters.  The show doesn't have the luxury of creating a new character every time it needs exposition of some sort...it has to economize.  And just because the character has a background doesn't mean that character is relatable or memorable.

That doesn't mean that I didn't like some of the characters in the books that were left out in the show.  I liked Donal Noye in the books...I didn't miss him in the show, though, because he wasn't needed.  Because, in truth, he only had a couple of important parts...to put Jon in his place in the first book and to die defending the Wall in the third.  Other characters were able to do those things with no issues.

Anyway, the title of this thread is "which character was the biggest mistake for the show to leave out"...well, I don't think any of them were.  A mistake means that this character was absolutely needed in the show and was left out...and I haven't seen any evidence of that at this point. 

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On 08/04/2016 at 2:42 AM, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Axell Florent, the queen's brother and a huge shit. He's extremely ambitious and has designs on Val. He's also very religious and delusional 

 

 

:blink: What queen are you speaking of? 

You must be mistaken, the brothers of the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms are named Willas, Garlant and Loras Tyrell.

The Queen Mother's brothers are named Jaime and Tyrion Lannister.

The Queen of Meereen's brothers were named Rhaegar and Viserys Targaryen.

Queen Whore had no brothers we know of.

No Queen in the Song of Ice and Fire has a brother named Axell Florent.

 Axell Florent's niece is the wife of an exiled renegade, not "the queen" and she has a brother named Erren.

 

But I agree that GRRM certainly has the skill to make us care about characters with just a few choice bits of description and mentioning. Just look at how popular Dacey Mormont is, when she never even uttered a word on page.

Which is why I think Quentyn could have been handled in that matter, we didn't need to follow his whole journey, GRRM could have made us care (far more effectively) through the Dacey Mormont method.

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2 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

:blink: What queen are you speaking of? 

You must be mistaken, the brothers of the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms are named Willas, Garlant and Loras Tyrell.

The Queen Mother's brothers are named Jaime and Tyrion Lannister.

The Queen of Meereen's brothers were named Rhaegar and Viserys Targaryen.

Queen Whore had no brothers we know of.

No Queen in the Song of Ice and Fire has a brother named Axell Florent.

 Axell Florent's niece is the wife of an exiled renegade, not "the queen" and she has a brother named Erren.

 

But I agree that GRRM certainly has the skill to make us care about characters with just a few choice bits of description and mentioning. Just look at how popular Dacey Mormont is, when she never even uttered a word on page.

Which is why I think Quentyn could have been handled in that matter, we didn't need to follow his whole journey, GRRM could have made us care (far more effectively) through the Dacey Mormont method.

GRRM says King Stannis and Princess Shireen. I'm sure he'd call Seylse a queen 

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Just now, Lord_Ravenstone said:

GRRM says King Stannis and Princess Shireen. I'm sure he'd call Seylse a queen 

But not the Queen. That's Margaery as far as Westeros is concerned. Selyse's a rebel queen without base and without power (right now)

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1 minute ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

That's not really true either. 

Part of the North and the Florents support her claim 

Still most people in Westeros when you say "the Queen" will picture Margaery at this point in the story. And a good chunk of the North would actually picture Jeyne Westerling. And Stannis has very little power right now, and leads a fairly nomadic lifestyle since he lost Dragonstone. The Wall is not a secure power base either.

I agree that Stannis luck can still turn...for a while, but I doubt Selyse will ever be "the Queen" And remember everyone can call themselves a king (or a queen) doesn't mean history will see them as such.

And my base argument is still true, no queen in the story has a brother named Axell Florent. He is Selyse's uncle.

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On 25/06/2016 at 8:53 AM, Orphalesion said:

Still most people in Westeros when you say "the Queen" will picture Margaery at this point in the story. And a good chunk of the North would actually picture Jeyne Westerling. And Stannis has very little power right now, and leads a fairly nomadic lifestyle since he lost Dragonstone. The Wall is not a secure power base either.

I agree that Stannis luck can still turn...for a while, but I doubt Selyse will ever be "the Queen" And remember everyone can call themselves a king (or a queen) doesn't mean history will see them as such.

And my base argument is still true, no queen in the story has a brother named Axell Florent. He is Selyse's uncle.

Selyse wont be around for ever. Stannis could remarry.. problem solved :P

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On 28/06/2016 at 10:59 AM, Jedi Renee said:

Selyse wont be around for ever. Stannis could remarry.. problem solved :P

Stannis/Magaery...? Now that'd be...interesting... Though it would continue the trend to surround Stannis with characters that are much more interesting than he is himself.

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I'm gonna say Marwyn just because Sam's storyline this season ended the way it began: pointlessly. 

At least Marwyn (or Sarella, but I don't see the show casting any more Sand Snakes after the way the other three were received) could've filled viewers in about the maesters' anti-Targaryen bias and other prophecy things and the like. 

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Arianne, Quentyn and/or Aegon

Personnally I love all Dorne storyline even if Arianne and Doran's plans failed. So I wish they could have found time to include all.

But they could have fusionned Quentyn and Aegon if they wanted to avoid Quentyn's ending (making Aegon known to Doran and his card -eventually adopted and presented as his son-, he travels to Mereen, Dany refuses to marry him, he frees the dragon, either stealing one either failing but not being burned, and return to Dorne becoming a rival pretender marrying Arianne).

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Arianne or quentyn, seriously, at least one or the other! And then they totally screwed up the sand snakes.. now every body watching hates dorne and thinks they're really stupid. Is arianne truly so insignificant that they can cut her completely? I really don't think so.. they're gonna regret leaving her character out.

 

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