~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Rhaenys didn't have king's blood. Unless being sister of a king counts. Does it? It seems to me like it wouldn't, but maybe I'm mistaken. Dany always says she's the blood of the Dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 And she had her first miscarriage after carrying around and sleeping next to the Drogon egg.Maybe "Only death can pay for life" worked here. Was Rhaego's "lifeforce" was consumed and taken to "wake drOgon from stone" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I have a weird theory that hatching of "stone" egg requires children with dragon blood presence... it can explain Aegon V gathering eggs and family at Summerhall, at time when Rhaegar was close to be born... In normal cases, when egg is "fresh", bonding of child with dragon ( giving him part of child's lifeforce? ) requires only child being near egg...Maybe in cases when egg is old and turned into "stone", whole lifeforce of child is needed?"Seven eggs, to honor the seven gods, though the king's own septon had warned" septons generally are against children sacrifices ( they stopped dwarf children sacrifices to the sea gods on Sisters ).Maybe the process ( ritual? ) requires unborn child? At Summerhall something went wrong, Rhaegar was born ( too soon? ) and it all ended in flames... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Dany always says she's the blood of the Dragon. Right. I'm not sure what your point is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Rayne Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Very interesting idea, that he was sterile. Is there a literary correlation to a conqueror who cant have offspring?There's The Mule in Asimov's Foundation series. And his empire did not survive him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acnologia Targaryen Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Honestly that letter must have been a passive letter so i can get behind the rhaenys sending it part. No way a ruler who has 95% of his nation burnt and so many dying sends his heir of all people along with a token of peace (meraxes skull) just to give an intimidating letter. If the letter had a threat about harming rhaenys more (assuming she lived and was in dornish care) then the wroth of the dragon would have been longer than 2 years. About his hand bleeding part just shows you how much the letter had on him emotionally for him to actually cause his hand to bleed by clenching it. Trying biting your hand with in a mental state hard and see if it bleeds it is very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Melisandre absolutely did not even partially cause the deaths of Robb, Balon, and Joff. It's made pretty clear that she foresaw all of their deaths in her fires (as is her main power) ................... and used the leech based lesser "sampling" of Kings blood to both convince Stannis and others of her powers and what she could do if allowed to entirely sacrifice Edric to the flames (something she probably genuinely believed would do something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Aegon and Rhaenys have the exact same blood, because they have the exact same parents. ETA: I had an impression that the letter contained a warning through a reminder about Rhoynish magic that made Valerians use 300 dragons to defeat them. Aegon obviously did not have 300 dragons. At that moment, he had only two. So, it makes sense for him to fly to Dragonstone, consult with his family, check the state of his dragons (sons), real dragons and possible dragons (eggs) and come back with a firm "yes". Whatever he saw on Dragonstone, proved to him that Rhoynish magic is working and shouldn't be provoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Aegon and Rhaenys have the exact same blood, because they have the exact same parents. ETA: I had an impression that the letter contained a warning through a reminder about Rhoynish magic that made Valerians use 300 dragons to defeat them. Aegon obviously did not have 300 dragons. At that moment, he had only two. So, it makes sense for him to fly to Dragonstone, consult with his family, check the state of his dragons (sons), real dragons and possible dragons (eggs) and come back with a firm "yes". Whatever he saw on Dragonstone, proved to him that Rhoynish magic is working and shouldn't be provoked. They are not twins. Outside of identical twins, the chances of two parents creating genetically identical offspring are astronomically low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysara Stark Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Rhaenys and Aegon descend from the same bloodline, so she would have king's blood in the same way stannis, renly, tommen, or myrcella would. At least according to whoever you're talking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 They are not twins. Outside of identical twins, the chances of two parents creating genetically identical offspring are astronomically low. Did I mention genetics? No. I mentioned blood. There is no genome lab in Westeros. Their belief (and that is what counts here) is that people with the same parents have the same blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Did I mention genetics? No. I mentioned blood. There is no genome lab in Westeros. Their belief (and that is what counts here) is that people with the same parents have the same blood. How do you stand being so? People with the same parents do have the same "blood"(genes); so constantly nonsensicl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Right. I'm not sure what your point is though. His point is that Daenarys is Rhaegar's sister, just like Rhaenys was Aegon's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 How do you stand being so? People with the same parents do have the same "blood"(genes); so constantly nonsensicl I do not even understand what these sentences mean. "How do I stand being so?" What does that mean in English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 His point is that Daenarys is Rhaegar's sister, just like Rhaenys was Aegon's. And why does that matter? Daenerys was the daughter of a king, Rhaenys wasn't. I feel like there is a part of the conversation that I missed somewhere along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 And why does that matter? Daenerys was the daughter of a king, Rhaenys wasn't. I feel like there is a part of the conversation that I missed somewhere along the way. I really cannot comment on how you feel. I have just tried to be helpful. Also, I suspect what illogicality you are trying to flush out. However, it is not my OP, so I cannot help you with any clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MizasterJ Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Aegon and Rhaenys have the exact same blood, because they have the exact same parents. ETA: I had an impression that the letter contained a warning through a reminder about Rhoynish magic that made Valerians use 300 dragons to defeat them. Aegon obviously did not have 300 dragons. At that moment, he had only two. So, it makes sense for him to fly to Dragonstone, consult with his family, check the state of his dragons (sons), real dragons and possible dragons (eggs) and come back with a firm "yes". Whatever he saw on Dragonstone, proved to him that Rhoynish magic is working and shouldn't be provoked. I really like this idea. GRRM did a lot in the world book to stress how powerful the Rhyonar magic was and that the culture was assimilated into Dornish culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modesty Lannister Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I really like this idea. GRRM did a lot in the world book to stress how powerful the Rhyonar magic was and that the culture was assimilated into Dornish culture. Thanks. It seems like something a Rhoynar would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Scaletongue Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Overall I like the OP - LmL, you're very interesting! Although I do like the idea that the letter contained some old Rhoynish lore about defeating dragons. It seems sufficiently threatening without drawing down the wrath of Aegon again. A quick trip to Dragonstone to review old Valyrian lore to verify just how bad the dragons did against the Rhoynish and headed back to King's Landing with the proof he needed that they weren't just bluffing. And burning the letter afterwards and never speaking of it's contents could just be a way to make sure that the Rhoynish lore doesn't spread to the other kingdoms. Wouldn't want anyone learning how to kill the dragons just as you've finally subjugated them and are making peace with the last hold outs. As for this whole blood argument, I don't see how genetics as we understand them play in. Doesn't Ned refer to Jon as "his blood"? Whether he's referring to his son or his nephew, genetics and DNA aren't what he's referring to. He's referring to blood shared by the family. All Starks are his blood, because all Starks are his family (regardless of how distant that relation may be). Since I'm technically supposed to be doing what they pay me to do, I can't spend too much time on this so my analogy is gonna kinda suck, but ignoring the fact that technically all Starks have king's blood because they used to be KitN - do you think Melisandre (or whoever is doing the blood magic) would pass over Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon because it was their brother that was king instead of their father? They share the same "blood" as their brother, and his blood was king's blood. I know it's not a great analogy because of the Stark's history, but it's the best I could come up with while pretending to work! And how would that work if/when Robb dies with no heirs? Bran's blood isn't king's blood until his brother dies and he's KitN? And Rickon's blood is of no special use until Bran dies without heirs, then *poof* it's king's blood? I don't quite understand how it would work either way tbh, cause where would you stop? Could Ned and Cat have retroactively been used as king's blood because from their blood came a king? Cause that seems odd to me too, but ignoring the siblings of a king seems like an oversight as well, because without heirs one of those siblings would become king/queen, a claim that would be based on blood - like Stannis' claim. But again, technically Stannis already has king's blood because of his Targaryen grandmother. I'm confusing myself, so I will go do what they pay me to do and come back after work - maybe with a better analogy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The problem with the "how to defeat dragons" theory, for me, is that the Rhoynar don't have a lot in their history to back up the suggestion they had this ability. At the height of their power, with hundreds of thousands of soldiers at their command and on the banks of their river-goddess, they once defeated three dragons using water magic. Which isn't an achievement to be mocked: they're the only civilisation that really seems to have presented a serious challenge to Valyrian expansion. But when they came up against the Freehold, they were destroyed, largely thanks to the dragons, and the Dornish have only a fraction of the power the Rhoynar once did. It doesn't seem like enough to cause Aegon to lose any sleep over. On the idea that there was blood magic which affected Aenys and/or Maegor somehow, I think it's undeniable that neither of them turned out quite right. I do think Maegor was probably a bit more like Stannis on steroids before his clonk on the head, rather than a complete lunatic from the outset, but even that's hardly "all there" mentally, I suspect. There's a mystery surrounding the end of the reigns of each of Maegor and Aenys and Visenya is at the centre of both of them. Aenys fell ill and Visenya tended to him. There's a suggestion that she killed him so Maegor could take the throne, but it's not as simple as that, because initially under her care Aenys improved. It's also noted that Visenya is not "the caring type". Maegor also went dramatically and quickly downhill after Visenya's death. If there was indeed some blood magic which targetted Aenys in particular, I wonder if Visenya' presence, as the closest living relative and only surviving child of Aenar, becomes important, almost as if Aegon's sons need her around to survive, perhaps even directly drawing power from her or her blood. Especially after Maegor's exile, Aenys loses the plot and seems to become even more dependent on Visenya: is it possible that she propped him up as long as possible, doing so in seclusion because the nature of the curse can't be made public. It's only when that becomes too much for her that she gives up on it and lets the king die. Perhaps Aenys deteriorates after Maegor leaves because before then he was drawing on both of them and afterwards only had Visenya: for all Maegor did afterwards, he does seem to have been loyal to his brother while he lived. The curse doesn't even need to have affected Maegor directly, but the sacrifices he and his mother made for Aenys might have driven him to have a higher opinion of his own claim. It might also explain his particular hatred for the Faith: while their driving him into exile might adequately explain that in itself, if their doing so led directly to the death of his brother and near-death of his mother that would give it some extra edge. And it would also explain why Aenys defended him and fought to kep him around when that was political suicide, above and beyond the obvious reasons (brotherly loyalty; Maegor's usefulness as an advisor and enforcer). There's not a lot of evidence, if any, for it, but what exactly happened to Aenys is another of those early Targaryen mysteries with no obvious explanation that could be tied in to the Rhaenys question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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