Ragnorak Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Cersei tore Robert's will which shows that the Lannisters do not care about legalities that much. In addition, Ned was legally a traitor who confessed his treason. So, his decrees as the Hand might have been declared illegal in the first place, which leads to the idea that Gregor was attainted and convicted falsely. So, the Lannisters probably didnot need to do anything regarding Gregor. The Lannisters definitely didn't need to do anything about Gregor-- that's the point. Gregor continued to serve under Tywin and ravage the Riverlands and then seems to have served as the crown's Castellan for Harrenhal during Littlefinger's absence much like Jaime later appoints Ser Bonnifer as Castellan until such time as Littlefinger arrives. The question is whether or not Cersei cared so little for pieces of paper that she neglected to have one written to undo Ned's actions as Hand. It is a small point and one that may never even come up. Ned's actions seem connected to his treason because they are directly connected to the overall Lannister plotting to steal the throne and we as readers know that. But the "official story" has Ned's treason start at Robert's death and the public face of what went on has Gregor's Riverland incursion as an unrelated incident. It is, or certainly can be said to be, a legally valid decree unless it was officially reversed. While the Lannisters and Cersei in particular may not care a whit for legalities, they are not in a position militarily or politically to ignore other's concerns for such legal issues whether legitimate or feigned. As a hypothetical, Dorne would care very much if an attainted Gregor was chosen to champion the dead Joffrey despite Gregor being attainted for the whole of Joffrey's reign, especially since an attainted Gregor killed Oberyn as the crown's champion. It has the potential to be an embarrassing chain of events for the Lannisters while they are now in a position where they have to care about legalities they were previously free to ignore through raw power. Riverland's lords are the wounded party from Gregor's actions and they are now back in the crown's good graces with Littlefinger as their Lord Paramount. Kevan, Tommen's Regent, is dead and Mace Tyrell is Hand. Robert Strong, who Kevan suspects is Gregor and also suspects Mace and Tarly think is Gregor, is Cersei's champion to be and Dorne is sending Sand Snakes, already suspicious of Gregor's death, to take a seat on the small council and infiltrate the Faith who are supposed to preside over the trial. All of these parties have reason to strike at House Lannister and there are no Lannisters in power at Kings Landing who can ignore a hypothetical legal claim should one be made. This doesn't mean anything will come of this. It is just one piece of hanging plot fruit that may or may not drop. If it does it will likely impact Sandor's story in some way. I believe that perhaps understanding what types of attainders there are in-universe, which reflect those of real life attainders of the time, will illustrate the point, Ragnorak, because I'm getting the idea that a distinction is missing here. See above in my reply to Ornitorrinca, where I point out why I believe Sandor becomes the de jure head of his House. The attainder is against Gregor exclusively, not against House Clegane, and it doesn't revert the lands to the crown because those lands aren't of the crown in the first place, but of the Lord Paramount of the Westerlands. The only way they would've been reverted to the crown would have been if the whole of House Clegane had been attainted, which is when the crown has the right to dispose of the lands, though the overlord would have to be involved, likely, since it's in his dominions. Sandor would've needed to take an oath of fealty to House Lannister as the new head to become formally so, but that's a formality like renewing oaths. That sounds reasonable. I was thinking of Brightwater Keep going to Mace Tyrell's second son being decided at a small council meeting rather than by Mace the Lord Paramount. That is a bit funny as an example since Mace was attainted too when he backed Renly (but I assumed they were just pretending that didn't happen.) Perhaps it is more accurately viewed as a spoils of war issue than an issue of disposition of an attainted lord's holdings or maybe Mace was putting a thin veneer on it being him stealing Brightwater from Randyl Tarly whose wife seems the next in line to inherit Brightwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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