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naseridrl

Baelor Daeron and Mariah

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When Baelor betrothed Daeron and Mariah was the intention for Daeron to become consort to Mariah when she became the Princess of Dorne?



Was that the marriage that was initially intended to put Targ blood into Dorne and bring them into the Seven Kingdoms and not the marriage he brokered himself later between his sister and good brother?


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the marriage was to make peace with Dorne. Mariah was probably never heir. Just the prince of Dorne's younger sister I guess


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Actually the wiki says Mariah was older than Maron, hence presumably the heir at one time. Not sure where that's confirmed though.



Either way, when Baelor made the betrothal Daeron was only behind his father and grandfather in the male line. Given Baelor's vaginaphobia, one would assume his eventual ascension was likely, or that of his children, which is a plausible reason for Mariah ceding her Dornish claim to her brother.



ETA: The above scenario mirrors Doran's original plans for Arianne/Quentyn.


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the dornish might not have known Baelor was scared of his cock. He was only 17 years old and became king unexpectadly. The might have just assumed he would start making babies when he gets back to KL. And Baelor probably never concerned himself with who should succeed him.


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Perhaps. Still, it would have been clear by the time the two married.


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Perhaps. Still, it would have been clear by the time the two married.

I agree with this. I just wondered if the initial intent was different from what the final result was.

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I've argued that Daeron was originally supposed to become the Prince Consort of Dorne rather than succeed to the Iron Throne. He was the price Baelor paid to Dorne in exchange for peace.



Baelor was married to Daena in 160 AC, and brokered the betrothal between Mariah and Daeron before his viper pit near-death experience which drove him completely nuts and caused him to annul his marriage to his sister. If he was already determined to not go through with his marriage to Daena, one should expect that he would have objected against the wedding, especially since he was already a man grown in 160 AC when they were married.



More importantly, the succession of the Iron Throne was not exactly clear until the death of Baelor, as it was only then decided that Viserys II should inherit. The fact that the Small Council apparently discussed the succession and eventually came to the conclusion that Daena and her sister should be passed over (with the smallfolk and some nobles pushing for Daena) suggests that Baelor had no clear heir.



The position of Daena, Rhaena, and Elaena was only as bad as it turned out to be because of the Maidenvault situation - and Daena's in particular due to Daemon's birth. But both came only after the annulment of the marriage.



Imagine what would have happened if Daena, Rhaena, and Elaena had lived at court and were all three married to very important and powerful great lords of the Realm by the time Baelor died. I doubt Viserys II would then have had the power to pass them and their husbands over. Imagine if Daena had married Alyn and Baela's eldest son and heir, and had already multiple sons of her own by then. Viserys, Aegon, and Daeron would have been pretty isolated. Daeron would have been sent to Dorne, Aegon would have been sidelined, and Viserys would have continued as Hand if he had behaved.


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Dorne would have also probably got Baelor Breakspear as Prince as well which would have been great for them. He seemed very capable and was probably much less likely to have had his life end in such a crazy way.


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I agree about the sister inheritance situation, but you forgot to take this into account.



Baelor only married Daena with great reluctance after Aegon III/Daeron I insisted.



after Baelor was made to wed Daena he refused to consummate it. Daena wore white to shame him into consummating it. Baelor instead liked her in white, as she seems more innocent.



maybe if Aegon III or Daeron I lived longer they finally could have talked him into consummating it. But when Baelor became king, it would be more difficult to boss him around


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Well, the whole wearing white stuff is not repeated in TWoIaF. It does not seem likely that Aegon III arranged the Baelor-Daena match, but even if he did, he was not around when Daeron I/Viserys enforced the marriage - if they did so.



Considering that Daena was Daeron and Baelor's eldest sister, I've argued that Daeron I was actually betrothed, too, but to a one of Baela's daughters by Alyn who was still too young to be married to him during his short reign. This match would have been brokered by Aegon III, Daenaera, and Alyn/Baela to finally reunite the older Targaryen-Velaryon branch with Aegon's. It makes simply no sense to assume that Baelor and not Daeron would marry Daena if the king himself was not yet married or betrothed to someone. Targaryen tradition would have suggested a match between Daeron and Daena.

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the marriage was to make peace with Dorne. Mariah was probably never heir. Just the prince of Dorne's younger sister I guess

As Mariah is specifically called the Prince of Dorne's eldest child in the World of Ice and Fire, she definitly wasn't Maron's younger sister ;) She was the eldest of all of her fathers children.

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Well, the whole wearing white stuff is not repeated in TWoIaF. It does not seem likely that Aegon III arranged the Baelor-Daena match, but even if he did, he was not around when Daeron I/Viserys enforced the marriage - if they did so.

Considering that Daena was Daeron and Baelor's eldest sister, I've argued that Daeron I was actually betrothed, too, but to a one of Baela's daughters by Alyn who was still too young to be married to him during his short reign. This match would have been brokered by Aegon III, Daenaera, and Alyn/Baela to finally reunite the older Targaryen-Velaryon branch with Aegon's. It makes simply no sense to assume that Baelor and not Daeron would marry Daena if the king himself was not yet married or betrothed to someone. Targaryen tradition would have suggested a match between Daeron and Daena.

according to the wiki, kid baelor wanted to become as septon. Aegon III wouldn't hear it and insisted he'd marry Daena. I guess Aegon made the bethrothal. Perhaps this may have been retconned now. Like Aelinor Targaryan now being Aelinor Penrose and not all of Egg's sons being married.

or perhaps this:

Daeron intended to marry a Martell princes to easy his rule over Dorne. His kids would then be half-Targs, so he made Baelor marry Daena. Baelor's inbreds could then marry Daeron kids, to bring back purity into the main line. With Daeron to busy warring he had no time to give Baelor the talk...

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The wiki is definitely factually wrong stating that Aegon III insisted on the Baelor-Daena match. He was already dead when they married in 160 AC. In fact, I don't know any textual evidence stating that Aegon III was the one who brokered the Baelor-Daena match, although I believe it was him rather than Daeron I or Viserys. Daeron I was fourteen when he ascended the Iron Throne, and Baelor was only a year younger, and we know that there were Targaryens already married at that age. There is no reason to believe that Aegon III did not arrange betrothals for all his sons by the time of his death.



I'm also not aware of any evidence that Baelor wanted to be a septon while his father was still alive. It is not impossible, but then, Baelor was a man grown when he married, and there is a chance that his brother the king was not even in capital by then to enforce the marriage, having already returned to Dorne to deal with the incursions. But even if Daeron I was there, Baelor was his own man by then, and could have decided to become a septon even against his brother's will. And we know that Baelor was actually both a charismatic and strong-willed person. He had to, get through with all the things he did - and he may actually be the Targaryen with the most impressive track record in history. His walk, the peace with Dorne, the Maidelvault madness, the Great Sept, the charities, the anti-prostitution laws, the anti-raven endeavor etc. Most of those he enacted against the will of his own court, and he no longer had dragons to enforce his will. He must have been as charismatic/remarkable as his brother, although in a very different way.



Daeron I marrying a Martell princess is not a bad idea, but if this was his goal we would know something about it, I think, as he would have taken that princess with him after he first subdued Dorne. She clearly would have been one of his hostages. But nothing suggests this, and, in fact, it would not be congruent with his overall bad Dornish policy like putting Lyonel Tyrell in charge. If a Martell would have become queen the chances for the Dornish to rebel against his rule would have been much smaller, I'd think, which should be a sign that there were no such plans.


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it's removed, but it was there

something about young baelor wanting to be a septon, and his father not wanting to hear it. Instead Aegon insisted he's marry his sister Daena in the Targaryan traditional manner.

it's still on this wiki: http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/Baelor_I_Targaryen

I asked for a source, and the wiki did not provide one. Nor could a source been found. That's why it has been removed.

The site you link now (at least that page) contains multiple errors already. In addition, there are no sources, yet again.

An interview, an SSM, a NoB, a reading... Until we find something that confirms Aegon III arranged the betrothal of these two (he can't have forced the actual marriage itself, as he had been dead for a few years by then), we can't assume it.

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I'd not claim to have read everything on Aegon III, but I don't remember any such claim, and I think I'd if I had ever chanced upon it. I'd not rule it out completely, but it would be very unlikely.


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I remember reading it on the wiki. But its gone now. Does Ran (Elio) have any idea?



As for this





Imagine what would have happened if Daena, Rhaena, and Elaena had lived at court and were all three married to very important and powerful great lords of the Realm by the time Baelor died. I doubt Viserys II would then have had the power to pass them and their husbands over. Imagine if Daena had married Alyn and Baela's eldest son and heir, and had already multiple sons of her own by then. Viserys, Aegon, and Daeron would have been pretty isolated. Daeron would have been sent to Dorne, Aegon would have been sidelined, and Viserys would have continued as Hand if he had behaved.

I agree, maybe even have Daena's eldest son marry Viserys granddaughter Daenaerys to combine the bloodlines, if their ages aren't too far apart.


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the dornish might not have known Baelor was scared of his cock. He was only 17 years old and became king unexpectadly. The might have just assumed he would start making babies when he gets back to KL. And Baelor probably never concerned himself with who should succeed him.

Baelor's refusing to sleep with his wife would have been public knowledge at that point, so the Dornish would surely have known; and, obviously, Baelor would have known his own mind.

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Colonel Green,



the succession wasn't certain, though. Viserys wasn't Baelor's recognized or chosen heir, nor does he seem to have been Prince of Dragonstone. Thus we can't be sure that the Martells expected Daeron to become king.


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