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What will be Dany’s justification for invading Westeros?


Mithras

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All expansionist powers premise their conquests on the idea of self-defense/existential threat. Some of them even believe it.

In other words, people often spew horse shit in order to justify their bad actions. I know this. I've been around the block a few times.

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And she's protecting Westeros from? The Northerners want out, will she let them go? The Iron Islands want out but does Dany know best for the people of the Iron Islands or someone who has actually lived in the Iron Islands? Hence why I want her to go somewhere she is not wanted. To lay bare her reasons even to herself.

There is this race of beings called the Others, you might have heard of them. Apparently they are threatening to invade the Realm and essentially kill everyone in their path. Already they have driven a hundred thousand wildings or so out of their land forcing them flee south. Apparently shits about to get real in Westeros.

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Every single person living there needs to be saved from the toxic and murderous Baratheon/Lannister reign. Just as they needed saving from Aery's reign.

As well as the hundreds of thousands that will need saving from the WW's.

Stannis is not that bad. Plus fAegon looks promising. He has the backing of Varys and Illyrio.

So you think the 7K were better off as described in WOIAF before Aegon made them all bend the knee?

Because I think it is fairly obvious that what Aegon did was a good thing. Westeros was in shambles and run by thugs with fear and force(mainly some psychotic ironborn). It was miserable before the Targaryens arrived.

Sometimes what people want and what is good for them collectively are two different things.

Ironborn never became a lasting force in the long history of Westeros. Hoares would be done eventually.

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In other words, people often spew horse shit in order to justify their bad actions. I know this. I've been around the block a few times.

In a way it's horse shit, in a way sincere. The classic example is Rome. They expand their borders to provide a buffer of protection to the homeland. Sounds rational. But then the buffer soon becomes part of the homeland, so rinse, repeat. And there's almost always a sense of brining civilization or freedom or w/e imposed benefit you tell yourself your society is all about, and the fact that you can conquer X seems to affirm w/e it is. ( which U.S. totally different with other conquerors who you can comfortably call wRlike barbarians because, well, they're not us.)

In the meanwhile conquest is generally good for business and political ambition, so all systems are go.

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1. Westeros is still run by thugs (lords). There is no central authority that reaches to the people under the said thugs.

2. The Targs apparently didn't bother to build roads, or granaries, or change the agricultural system in response to the crazy winters, etc. They didn't build up the educational system, didn't provide schools. They didn't build a civil service or a standing army, both of which could have provided minor social mobility.3. What did the Targs do for Westeros?

1. exactly why it needs saving

2. I'm sorry, roads and schools. Did the internal combustion engine get invented since I last checked? Has anyone ever mentioned the word 'school' in all 5 novels? I know they do the maester training in Old Town...is there any other form of education in Westeros? I think you are several centuries ahead of the current civilization in Westeros.

Civil Service? Pretty sure there are also no national parks or truck rest stops either.

Standing army?

You have lost me on these, clearly 'call the bannermen' is how they wage war in Westeros. Are you really blaming the Targaryens for not having the ability to leap centuries ahead of the world they live in?

3. Well if you read WOIAF it is very very clear what they did for Westeros. I really don't feel like explaining the entire book and pointing out all the benefits of central government as opposed to the jungle warfare that was going on before Aegon.

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Wait, is it known that Dany will invade Westeros at all? I though GRRM mentioned that Dany will go the Westeros, but that we know nothing about the circumstances.



If so, it's perfectly possible that Dany will be invited to, rather than invade, Westeros. It is extremely possible that Aegon might invite her, and they might not fall out until after Dany is in Westeros. Even if Aegon loses, if something happens to Tommen, the Tyrell dominated small council might rather have Dany on the throne than let Dorne have it through Trystane and Myrcella. And if Euron shows up with a Dragon, or if the White Walkers show up with Ice Dragons, everyone is going to want Dany to come to Westeros. Or some combination of the above: Aegon takes the throne, gets eaten by Euron's dragon while the white walkers break though the wall, and JonCon & Aegon's small council sends word to Dany to urgently come to Westeros.


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There is this race of beings called the Others, you might have heard of them. Apparently they are threatening to invade the Realm and essentially kill everyone in their path. Already they have driven a hundred thousand wildings or so out of their land forcing them flee south. Apparently shits about to get real in Westeros.

She doesn't know about the Others so that is not an excuse, she already wants to invade. Try again

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Stannis is not that bad. Plus fAegon looks promising. He has the backing of Varys and Illyrio.

Ironborn never became a lasting force in the long history of Westeros. Hoares would be done eventually.

And where is your evidence that Dany has any problem with Stannis or fAegon? This whole thread is based on like 20 assumptions of how you think the novels will play out, and I disagree completely.

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Wait, is it known that Dany will invade Westeros at all? I though GRRM mentioned that Dany will go the Westeros, but that we know nothing about the circumstances.

If so, it's perfectly possible that Dany will be invited to, rather than invade, Westeros. It is extremely possible that Aegon might invite her, and they might not fall out until after Dany is in Westeros. Even if Aegon loses, if something happens to Tommen, the Tyrell dominated small council might rather have Dany on the throne than let Dorne have it through Trystane and Myrcella. And if Euron shows up with a Dragon, or if the White Walkers show up with Ice Dragons, everyone is going to want Dany to come to Westeros. Or some combination of the above: Aegon takes the throne, gets eaten by Euron's dragon while the white walkers break though the wall, and JonCon & Aegon's small council sends word to Dany to urgently come to Westeros.

No she is invading Westeros with fire and blood. I can't wait.

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There is this race of beings called the Others, you might have heard of them. Apparently they are threatening to invade the Realm and essentially kill everyone in their path. Already they have driven a hundred thousand wildings or so out of their land forcing them flee south. Apparently shits about to get real in Westeros.

There are people wearing black in the North, you might have heard them. They are supposed to stop the Others. They have beein fighting with the Others from Book 1. They discovered that obsidian is deadly to the Others whereas their minions can be killed by fire and steel.

George said that he will finish the series in 2 more books. Dany does not even know the Others and George said that she will Dance. There is no time for Dany to come North until the series is pretty much over.

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She doesn't know about the Others so that is not an excuse, she already wants to invade. Try again

Excuse for what? She is invading to reclaim her family's throne. When she gets there the Others will most likely be invading as well killing everyone in sight. She will end up fighting them. This is not complicated.

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There are people wearing black in the North, you might have heard them. They are supposed to stop the Others. They have beein fighting with the Others from Book 1. They discovered that obsidian is deadly to the Others whereas their minions can be killed by fire and steel.

George said that he will finish the books in 2 more books. Dany does not even know the Others and George said that she will Dance. There is no time for Dany to come North until the series is pretty much over.

Yes I have heard of them and thinking that they and they alone are going to stop the others is delusional. Even Lord Commander Snowflake wishes he had a dragon or three to help in that fight. I wonder where he could find someone with 3 such weapons.

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So you think the 7K were better off as described in WOIAF before Aegon made them all bend the knee?

Because I think it is fairly obvious that what Aegon did was a good thing. Westeros was in shambles and run by thugs with fear and force(mainly some psychotic ironborn). It was miserable before the Targaryens arrived.

Sometimes what people want and what is good for them collectively are two different things.

Where did you get that from? We hear nothing about the reactions of the common people to Aegon.

There is also nothing to say it was 'miserable' before he arrived. All we know is that he used 3 dragons to conquer kingdoms where he was not wanted by the current rulers. Who do you think died in the field of fire? Soldiers, they came from villages to fight. I don't think they were especially grateful. The only problem at the point of Aegon's arrival was Harren, Aegon was a war monger who took fire all over Westeros. How many do you think fried in Dorne? The North seemed fine enough, The Stormlands' only 'problem' was a female heir and spats with Harren. The dispute with Dorne seemed to have been on the back burner. The Reach seemed solid, even allying with the Westerlands who seemed in good shape. The Vale had a child Lord but an adequate regent is seems. Its mainly the Riverlands issue.

Even if we consider the system to be 'thuggish', Aegon didn't care! He didn't get rid of the 'thugs', he set up his own family as premier thugs and that is it.

Excuse for what? She is invading to reclaim her family's throne. When she gets there the Others will most likely be invading as well killing everyone in sight. She will end up fighting them. This is not complicated.

Its not a good enough answer for a character who claims the moral highground. Turning up in Westeros will cost thousands of lives, is that worth what she wants? Are we meant to support her?

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Where did you get that from? We hear nothing about the reactions of the common people to Aegon.

There is also nothing to say it was 'miserable' before he arrived. All we know is that he used 3 dragons to conquer kingdoms where he was not wanted by the current rulers. Who do you think died in the field of fire? Soldiers, they came from villages to fight. I don't think they were especially grateful. The only problem at the point of Aegon's arrival was Harren, Aegon was a war monger who took fire all over Westeros. How many do you think fried in Dorne? The North seemed fine enough, The Stormlands' only 'problem' was a female heir and spats with Harren. The dispute with Dorne seemed to have been on the back burner. The Reach seemed solid, even allying with the Westerlands who seemed in good shape. The Vale had a child Lord but an adequate regent is seems. Its mainly the Riverlands issue.

Even if we consider the system to be 'thuggish', Aegon didn't care! He didn't get rid of the 'thugs', he set up his own family as premier thugs and that is it.

Be careful with being skeptical about Targaryen Propaganda. That might get you wisked away to an undisclosed location where you will spend a little time with the Shavepate, until your views improve.

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She feels the throne is hers and she has the right to rule everyone in Westeros. It's simple as that. Why is this even an issue? She's been pretty blunt about her "justification" for invading even if she hasn't done it.

Then she is a delusional fool.

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Lets talk about Dany's Messiah Complex:

Dany in Clash of Kings, chapters 12 and 27.

The old men muttered that it omened ill, but Daenerys Targaryen had seen it first on the night she had burned Khal Drogo, the night her dragons had awakened. It is the herald of my coming, she told herself as she gazed up into the night sky with wonder in her heart. The gods have sent it to show me the way.

Yet when she put the thought into words, her handmaid Doreah quailed. "That way lies the red lands, Khaleesi. A grim place and terrible, the riders say."

"The way the comet points is the way we must go," Dany insisted . . . though in truth, it was the only way open to her.

Dorea dies in the red waste...

"We follow the comet," Dany told her khalasar. Once it was said, no word was raised against it. They had been Drogo's people, but they were hers now. The Unburnt, they called her, and Mother of Dragons. Her word was their law.

It's not so much that the Dothraki believe her to a Messiah, I would too if I had seen her walk out of the flames... but, Dany is convinced of it as well, just as she is convinced that the Comet announced her coming and was to show her the way. (even Joffrey doesn't think to claim the comet for himself, though the smallfolk of Kingslanding do it in his stead.)

As the handmaids toweled her dry and wrapped her in a sandsilk robe, Dany's thoughts went to the three who had sought her out in the City of Bones. The Bleeding Star led me to Qarth for a purpose. Here I will find what I need, if I have the strength to take what is offered, and the wisdom to avoid the traps and snares. If the gods mean for me to conquer, they will provide, they will send me a sign, and if not . . . if not . . .

Once in Qarth, after Dany and the dothraki were taken in by Xaro Xhoan Daxos, she continuously presses him for ships. Ten ships from each of the thirteen is what she wants and she has nothing to offer in return. It is as if she believed people should help her unconditionally and for no other reason than her having dragons. Small, baby dragons....Messiah Complex.

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