What will be Dany’s justification for invading Westeros?

[Greymoon]

Wait, is it known that Dany will invade Westeros at all? I though GRRM mentioned that Dany will go the Westeros, but that we know nothing about the circumstances.

If so, it's perfectly possible that Dany will be invited to, rather than invade, Westeros. It is extremely possible that Aegon might invite her, and they might not fall out until after Dany is in Westeros. Even if Aegon loses, if something happens to Tommen, the Tyrell dominated small council might rather have Dany on the throne than let Dorne have it through Trystane and Myrcella. And if Euron shows up with a Dragon, or if the White Walkers show up with Ice Dragons, everyone is going to want Dany to come to Westeros. Or some combination of the above: Aegon takes the throne, gets eaten by Euron's dragon while the white walkers break though the wall, and JonCon & Aegon's small council sends word to Dany to urgently come to Westeros.

No it is not known...

She's been trying from the start though, so maybe, eventually, she might land there...though I doubt she's answer any sort of summon by Aegon....GRRM said the dothraki are coming back big time next book...and that Dany'd learn to embrace her house words 'fire and blood'...and sort of 'come home'...I understand that as: Dany will conquer the dothraki sea, and as a consequence, very probably go to war against Volantis and other free cities....after the house with the red door in Braavos, Dany's home was Drogo's Khalasar...and now Drogo's Khalasar returns to her, with at their head, a Khal

(and MMD words come true, the sun dies in the east, the mountains blow in the leaves like wind, and Dany might be pregnant -- bleeding during early pregnancy, even heavy bleeding does not necessarily mean miscarriage.....and the Khal returns...but he is Jhaqo, not Drogo.)

Hinting at that development is the vision in the House of the Undying where Dany sees the Dosh Khaleen kneeling to her; and the prophecy of the Stallion that Mounts the World...

[UnmaskedLurker]

No it is not known...

She's been trying from the start though, so maybe, eventually, she might land there...though I doubt she's answer any sort of summon by Aegon....GRRM said the dothraki are coming back big time next book...and that Dany'd learn to embrace her house words 'fire and blood'...and sort of 'come home'...I understand that as: Dany will conquer the dothraki sea, and as a consequence, very probably go to war against Volantis and other free cities....after the house with the red door in Braavos, Dany's home was Drogo's Khalasar...and now Drogo's Khalasar returns to her, with at their head, a Khal

(and MMD words come true, the sun dies in the east, the mountains blow in the leaves like wind, and Dany might be pregnant -- bleeding during early pregnancy, even heavy bleeding does not necessarily mean miscarriage.....and the Khal returns...but he is Jhaqo, not Drogo.)

Hinting at that development is the vision in the House of the Undying where Dany sees the Dosh Khaleen kneeling to her; and the prophecy of the Stallion that Mounts the World...

GRRM has stated that the story lines will merge and the main characters will all come together at some point. So eventually, I am virtually certain Dany will get to Westeros. Under what circumstances or for what reason is less clear. But staying on Essos and never getting to Westeros does not seem to be possible given the story structure and that statement from GRRM.

[Kyrion]

I believe Aegon will have the Throne before Dany comes to Westeros, and it will be immediately confrontational between them.

WIth that said, Aegon will contact her in Volantis(which she has to be in due to meeting Benerro and the war with Volantis, slave trade empire etc.). Dany will be made to believe that she is Azor Ahai thanks to her love of Prophecy, and when she is given a notice from Aegon to return to Westeros maybe to marry her off to somebody, she will think he is the mummers dragon and proclaim him false, and bring an army to Westeros to establish her rightful claim.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I feel I must point out, Dany isnt the only spectacular failure in leading. Jon gets stabbed by his own men for bending his vows too much. Hopefully when he comes back he will realise leadership is a representation of the many and not personal desires no matter how compelling and just they may be. Being Lord Commander is for the troops not a pat on the back for himself. The body count of his errors is much lower though.

[Hodor the Articulate]

This requirement of being a perfect ruler before you decide to rule seems unreasonable to me. How is anyone to know what they can do, unless they do it?

[SeanF]

As we've seen in Meereen, Plans and skills don't necessarily match. Is there are moment where you say 'I can't do this, I need to go and find a red door?' or carry on your present course regardless because you think it should be yours, no the GODS want it to be yours?

.

For a 13-16 year old, Dany's achievements are remarkable; but, her story also shows why it's not a good idea to entrust great power to 13-16 year olds. The red door isn't an option, as too many people want her dead.

I don't think Dany as ever claimed to have the backing of the gods. In fact, she seems quite indifferent to them.

[Ser Creighton]

Where did you get that from? We hear nothing about the reactions of the common people to Aegon.

There is also nothing to say it was 'miserable' before he arrived. All we know is that he used 3 dragons to conquer kingdoms where he was not wanted by the current rulers. Who do you think died in the field of fire? Soldiers, they came from villages to fight. I don't think they were especially grateful. The only problem at the point of Aegon's arrival was Harren, Aegon was a war monger who took fire all over Westeros. How many do you think fried in Dorne? The North seemed fine enough, The Stormlands' only 'problem' was a female heir and spats with Harren. The dispute with Dorne seemed to have been on the back burner. The Reach seemed solid, even allying with the Westerlands who seemed in good shape. The Vale had a child Lord but an adequate regent is seems. Its mainly the Riverlands issue.

Even if we consider the system to be 'thuggish', Aegon didn't care! He didn't get rid of the 'thugs', he set up his own family as premier thugs and that is it.

Its not a good enough answer for a character who claims the moral highground. Turning up in Westeros will cost thousands of lives, is that worth what she wants? Are we meant to support her?

And how many lives will it cost if she doesn't turn up. Last I checked Tyrion Lannister gave a great little talk about situation Westeros and it is a nightmare and only getting worse.

You have already attempted to claim she has invaded and you know why she will invade, yet she has not invaded. Who spied on her? Who attempted to murder her, who usurped her families throne? Did she ask for Tyrion to come to her? How about Quin? Did she ask for Quin to marry her or have any arrangment with him? Did she ask him to steal her dragons? Did she ask for Varys to manipulate her life from the shadows? Did she ask for a fake family relative to invade Westeros? Has she asked for Marwyn to come to her? Which he will Martin already confirmed this on SSM. Did she ask for Euron and Vic to come after her and her dragons? Who asked Selmy to come to her? What has Selmy told her? Though she is not so foolish as to believe him and Jorah gave her better information of the small folk.

She in no way involved herself in Westeros, Westeros involved themselves with her.

How will she learn of the Others? Marwyn who spoke with Sam who was there to get help in fighting the Others. Marwyn was also using a glass candle and may have more information.

Who has been in a constant state of War in Westeros. The Lannisters, the Baratheons, the Watch, the Starks, Iron Born, Tyrell, riverlands. Is the faith about to have another uprising? Is Euron about to invade Oldtown and the Reach? The north is at war with the North and Stannis, the Watch just stabbed Jon Snow, The reach and the Iron Born, Dorne is preparing and Little Finger is planning. LF voted to have her murdered and last I checked one of her Queensguard is a wittness.

Westeros has fucked Westeros. She has not come to them they have come to her and are still coming. Didn't Dorne ask her to join forces and attack? They spied on her, they attempted to murder her, they tried to steal from her. They are still trying to steal from her. Who hunted her, who tried to steal from her, who is trying to steal from her, wh tried to get her involved in their wars, who spied on her, who manipulated her life?

She did not ask to be involved with them, they involved her all on there own and somehow it is her fault because she was born. Sorry that BS doesn't slide. You know as long as you cherry pick small quotes and take them out of context and apply false attributes to her story you can get whatever answer you want. But to act like Westeros did not involve her, that Westeros and all it's problems are her fault, that KL is not her birthright that was built by her family along with Dragonstone, that she somehow asked for Varys, LF, Robert, Doran, Oberyn (Pact in Braavos), Quin, Selmy, Jorah, Victarion, Euron, and now Tyrion and Marwyn to involve her is nonsense. That is all on them. Stealing, attempted murder, spying, plotting and manipulating. When a country tries to murder someone who happens to be a ruler, that is generally taken a decleration of war by said ruler. Did they appologize for trying to kill her and her child? The ruler of Westeros did this with the authority of the small council. His family still hold the throne.

Yet not in Westeros and not marching. The crown is suppose to be responsible for it's lords, and they are doing all kinds of crazy shit. Wait till the Iron bank finds out she has a lot of gold, they will probably show up asking her to pay off the damn debt. They don't care who wins, they just want the debt paid off, and unlike Stannis she does not need a loan. Martin also mentioned on SSM after he listed the knot and all the people that will show up that someone else would be showing up and he did not name them just that they would have their own story.

What about Volantis? Who has been ploting against her and planning war against her. She has no plans reguarding Volantis. Yet they want to attack her for slaves and gold and gems. They have spread liess and tried to gain support to go to war with her and they don't like the fact that they are now affraid of the slaves.

How about the Red Priests they are the ones talking her up, that's on them she has not spoken to them she did not ask them to send Moqorro or make contact with them.

How about Qarth? She was invited into Qarth, she asked them for help and they said no. Then multiple members of the ruling class attempted to hae her killed. Then after the fact, they came to her again, and tried to get her to let slavery continue, and she said no. So they decleared war on her.

So if little princess hot pants decides to march her sweet tootsies over to any of those places and lay the sack down on some these candy assed morons you actually know where it began because it is in the books and it did not begin with her. They got involved with her, they declared war, they attacked her, they did all that other shit, and many people have a lot to answer for. Who had Dany taken into Illyrio's home? Who had her sold as a slave to the Dothraki? Who voted to haver her and her child murdered? People point the finger at Dany a lot but Varys has a lot to answer for. Did LF a man she had never met or crossed in anyway vote to have her and her child murdered? Did the Crown try to kill her? Did they spy on her did they manipulate her, did they kill her family? Aerys was fucked up but that is not on her? Who murdered her niece and nephew? She didn't know they but it tells her what she is dealing with and they are still her family. Who abused her as a child? Who threw her in the streets, who pointed a sword at her and her baby and threatened to murder both?

You know Dany has created her own problems, but so has everyone else. Robb created a problem with the Freys, Jon created a problem with the watch, Rhaegar did not address the problem that was his father creating an even bigger problem. Dany has things to answer for but her father and many things I have listed are not among them.

She may come because of the Others, or because of all the shit Westeros has done, she may come with fire and blood, she may come because of Aegon, or Varys, ora dozen other things. But does she have cause? She has more cause than most. She has the same argument that Stannis making except her family actually built KL and Dragonstone. For what ever reason she comes the author has given more than enough information and justification for her to do it and he did not put in the books for no reason. Doesn't the author himself referr to Westeros as her home? Didn't he say Dany and Tyrion were coming home in winds? There is another answer to the question, maybe she just wants to come home and the uthor says it's her home.

Moral high ground? What do the lords of Westeros know about the moral high ground? It's a steaming pile of self destructive bullshit, and they have made there own problems. The last lord with Moral high ground got his damn head cut off, and that was also not Dany's fault. She got a 1000 problems but justification for kicking there asses ain't one of them.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

This requirement of being a perfect ruler before you decide to rule seems unreasonable to me. How is anyone to know what they can do, unless they do it?

Start small, not overthrowing slavery with WMDs

[El Guapo]

I don't get people who say that Dany is going to protect Westeros from The Others , if she is invading Westeros with fire and blood doesn't that make her the same threat as The Others .

I am not sure what is so hard to understand. Dany hasn't invaded Westeros yet. The Others haven't invaded Westeros yet. Both these events are going to happen sometime in the next two books, probably right around the same time, Dany will soon become aware of the Others and what they are doing. At that point she will have to make a decision (that old human heart in conflict with itself thingee) which is continue to fight for the throne or put that aside to deal with Others first.

[Hodor the Articulate]

Start small, not overthrowing slavery with WMDs

Dany did; she started out with a small khalasar, and it worked out fine. Also, she wasn't freeing slaves with the intention of ruling them, or their former masters' cities, so whether or not she had the skills to rule, then, is irrelevent.

[Annarkie]

I just can't wait to see the look on Westerosi faces when she shows up with dragons, Dothraki, and Unsullied. I don't see many welcoming her with open arms until the Others show up, but it will be interesting.

I especially hope to see Cersei's reaction to her... and Barristan and Tyrion at her sides. Dany-fan or Dany-hater, that would still be a fun read.

As for me, I hop back and forth between liking her and wanting to smack her.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I still don't get this "invasion" people apparently has already seen in their fires. Or is in any kind of prepublished tWoW book I haven't been informed about?. I mean, she's landing in Westeros, yes, but it looks like some readers have already seen this kind of messy chaotic doom in which the Dothraki will get out of the ships and start pillaging and raping everything that moves here and there because fuck yeah, a new land for us to destroy like we're freaking locusts without brains or organization!

First, they will probably be so terrified after sailing to even actually leave the ships. Two, do we really think they will go and do that in a foreign land whose defends and people they don't know. The Dothraki have explorers, so, they kinda know that a strange land is dangerous. Duh. If someone actually believe that, then the Dothraki aren't the idiots here... just saying.

And most importantly, this arrival will happen after Dany has probably been accepted as their leader, the Stallion or whatever nonsense they will believe her to be. Aegon and Jon can control the GC with the promises of gold and castles. Stannis can control his men with the promises of whatever he's promising. And Jon has managed to control the wildings (who aren't very different from the Dothrakis) with the promise of safety (and some hostages being taken), and you think Dany, the one with the BIG FLYING FIREBREATHING LIZARDS THAT CAN CARRY A WHOLE HORSE AND FLY WITH IT AND EAT IT AFTER ROAST IT IN THE AIR won't be able to control the Dothrakis that will practically see her as a goddess? Like, really?

[UtherSnow]

Why would Dany need justification to invade Westeros? I'd even shorten that to ask something sounding similar yet different.

Why would Dany invade Westeros? The more relevant question is how? That's not the same as asking what justification Dany needs.

How can anyone leave Essos without establishing rule? Astapor fell apart shortly after Dany left, with The Unsullied. Yunkai fell apart shortly after Dany left, with The Second Sons. Meereen is falling apart, and while she was still there. It descends further when Drogon flies off with Dany, stranding everyone who decided to follow her in the middle of an unresolved situation.

So, are Dothraki riders just going to follow Dany blindly? I have dragons is no selling line of her supremacy. (It's singular now, so it reduces impact further.) What battles has she won? Where are the songs about her victories? Blowin' In The Wind!

How would Dany invade Westeros? Without songs, without victories, without force, Dany's invasion is doubtful.

If she happens to return to Meereen, to collect her other 'children', how are Rhaegal and Viserion going to see her now? She locked them away and left them. She didn't go to see them. Mother of Dragons? Bad Mother! Evil Mother!

Does she call on Drogon to sort them out?

Are we thinking about justification yet? Not a chance.

Along comes a maester from Oldtown, in Westeros. Does he provide Dany with the justification......? STOP! Anyone from Westeros will see what kind of a mess Essos is in all due to Dany. You can't pass the buck. It's all on Dany's back because she is ultimately responsible for all the actions taken in her name. Maester's eye-view? So this thinks she can sit.... We're scarpering. Stuff this!

Oh, I forgot! Tyrion, Loin of Lannister will roar! (Yes, I did spell Loin as intended.) He'll win like he did at Blackwater! He's a winner, baby! Half-man! Half-man! Drogon sees lunch is served! Oops! GRRM didn't see that coming. Tyrion spots a dragon and hops on! Yee-haw! Go, Tyrion, baby! Tyrion saves Dany's bacon! (GRRM rules : #1 = Never kill Tyrion. #2 = see rule 1)

"Is there a septic.... sorry. Septon, please?"

"I do a neat line in perfumes. Not hinting, mate."

"Dissolve my marriage... and hers, and be quick."

Cut to the shortened version. Tyrion marries Dany.

"Wife! Let's go honeymoon in Westeros!"

"I can't wait! Is it all Viserys told me?"

But, GRRM isn't going down that road, is he? Going to invade will not be Dany's justification to head to Westeros.

The place is in turmoil all due to what's happened since Jon Arryn, Robert Baratheon & Ned Stark were taken out of the equation. It's been made worse because of a senseless war prompted by an unruly child taking the crown (pushed by his mother's desire and ambition).

There's a greater threat and no one south of Harrenhal cares. It's not their concern. In any case, NW will deal with it. They've sent all their crap up north, to serve with NW at The Wall.

Could Dany unite forces to head north? You have to have pieces coming together to begin moving towards an end-game.

What if Aegon declares for Dany? The question of his heritage matters not one iota. It's who he commands that will matter and start to make a difference.

Forget KL - that was clear in Dany's vision. Leave the idiots to entertain themselves.

No, I've not forgotten certain people. They don't affect Dany's arrival in Westeros. I think I'll say Tyrion is enjoying what he's got to do, as he's effectively governing Essos. It's a challenge made for his talents.

[OldGimletEye]

BIG FLYING FIREBREATHING LIZARDS THAT CAN CARRY A WHOLE HORSE AND FLY WITH IT AND EAT IT AFTER ROAST IT IN THE AIR won't be able to control the Dothrakis that will practically see her as a goddess? Like, really?

Yes, like really. I am not sure controlling the Dothraki is going to be that easy for her. I mean don't get me wrong, I think that she will get some control of them. But, I think its a little wishful to assume that the Dothraki will turn into a bunch of mindless robots whose only purpose is to bask in the glory of the great Khaleesi. They are going to be asked to give up their normal spoils of war.

Also, unlike the Wildlings, the Dothraki were living the good life. They pretty much got to ride around and extort luxuries from people as they pleased. From their viewpoint, that is a lot to give up. The wildlings on the other hand pretty much faced complete destruction if they didn't agree to Stannis/Jon's terms. Seems to me that the incentive structures are very different.

[chrisdaw]

If people believe her justification or not won't matter to her, she'll come to believe Aegon is fake and that's that.

[shadow282]

First, they will probably be so terrified after sailing to even actually leave the ships. Two, do we really think they will go and do that in a foreign land whose defends and people they don't know. The Dothraki have explorers, so, they kinda know that a strange land is dangerous. Duh. If someone actually believe that, then the Dothraki aren't the idiots here... just saying.

Ah, the Dothraki- known across the world for their cowardice, patience, intelligence, mastery of strategy, and self-control.

Oh wait...

[Lord of the Dreadfort]

What does she thinks will happen when she shows up with her Dragons, Unsullied and dothraki??

Daenerys has no birthright, her sense of justice isn't the best and she's a terrible ruler.

[SeanF]

Yes, like really. I am not sure controlling the Dothraki is going to be that easy for her. I mean don't get me wrong, I think that she will get some control of them. But, I think its a little wishful to assume that the Dothraki will turn into a bunch of mindless robots whose only purpose is to bask in the glory of the great Khaleesi. They are going to be asked to give up their normal spoils of war.

Also, unlike the Wildlings, the Dothraki were living the good life. They pretty much got to ride around and extort luxuries from people as they pleased. From their

viewpoint, that is a lot to give up. The wildlings on the other hand pretty much faced complete destruction if they didn't agree to Stannis/Jon's terms. Seems to me that the incentive structures are very different.

I've said before that Dany might be able to curb the worst excesses, but there's pretty much a Standard Operating Procedure to invasions in this world. Burning and pillaging is part of that (even if one can curb murder and rape).

[LordStoneheart]

Yes, like really. I am not sure controlling the Dothraki is going to be that easy for her. I mean don't get me wrong, I think that she will get some control of them. But, I think its a little wishful to assume that the Dothraki will turn into a bunch of mindless robots whose only purpose is to bask in the glory of the great Khaleesi. They are going to be asked to give up their normal spoils of war.

Actually, that's like literally what GRRM had envisioned for Dany, at least in 1993. The dragons would bind the Dothraki to her will.

[OldGimletEye]

Actually, that's like literally what GRRM had envisioned for Dany, at least in 1993. The dragons would bind the Dothraki to her will.

Yeah, well I don't put a lot of faith in that Outline. But, even if she "bends them to her will" what does that mean exactly? Does it mean the Dothraki do everything and I mean everything that she wants? Or does it just mean that she gains control over most of them to some extent?