The "Winged Wolf" A Bran Stark Re-read Project - Part II ASOS & ADWD

[Loic]

I'll come again on Dante's Comedy and guides, BearQueen87, happy someone else was thinking something similar to my own :)

A couple of notes that jumped to my mind when reading:

1 Iirc a catabasis is generally followed by some kind of return to the "upper" life. At least for the main character, that is.

We know that this time Bran and company will manage to come back to the surface, but I wonder for the future.

Especially since Bloodraven's cave features elements such as bones, inhuman creatures and an underground river.

2 a salty tear:

5. The “tear” that falls on to Bran’s head as he passes through the Black Gate has always perplexed me. Is it a baptism? A blessing? Is the spirit inside the Gate mourning his loss as he moves into a new world, as if knowing Bran won’t be retuning?

Crackpottery or not, what about the tear coming straight from Bran Stark after connecting to the weirwood network, rewatching himself while not being able to stop his group?

Eddard Stark and Theon Greyjoy's examples show us that weirwood trees can interact with humans, to some extent (although it got to be said that GRRM left Ned's case quite ambiguous, I believe purposedly).

This said, I'd like to apologise for not being that active on this thread lately, but real life issues do force me to earn money instead of spending my time as I'd like to :)

I'm not withdrawing from ADwD Bran I's analisys, of course, and I'll post it accordingly to the schedule: still, my apologies since I've read a lot of valid things without even thanking the right people. When I'll have some more time, however, I'll pick them up to discuss!

[LongRider]

Wonderful essay BearQueen! The horror elements and who knows what ascending the stairs made for a great first time read. I like how the Black Gate literally swallowed up Bran & party into the 'underworld'. Would that be like being swallowed into the 'belly of the beast', also I wonder?

Great stuff!

[BearQueen87]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I'll reply more fully when I have got a spare moment (or more moments than the one I have now). Like Loic, I too have to earn money in the real world. But for the moment, I did want to hit two things:

I'll come again on Dante's Comedy and guides, BearQueen87, happy someone else was thinking something similar to my own :)

A couple of notes that jumped to my mind when reading:

1 Iirc a catabasis is generally followed by some kind of return to the "upper" life. At least for the main character, that is.

We know that this time Bran and company will manage to come back to the surface, but I wonder for the future.

Especially since Bloodraven's cave features elements such as bones, inhuman creatures and an underground river.

I think this is really important. When the gang leaves through the Black Gate, they don't go back up, they just walk straight out. There is no ascent for Bran yet. Instead he just keeps moving further and further "in" and then goes down more once we get into ADWD. In a way, it's keeping with the traditional thoughts of Hell--Latin and post-Latin world--that the "king" (Hades, Satan) resides in the center. In Dante, Lucifer is literally the center of the world and in order to ascend, Dante must climb Lucifer until he is "righted" and emerge on the other side of the planet and begin his journey int Purgatory. However, with Bran, thus far, there is no ascent. (Put in pin in that because there is something interesting in ADWD Bran II that I'll mention when we get there).

Wonderful essay BearQueen! The horror elements and who knows what ascending the stairs made for a great first time read. I like how the Black Gate literally swallowed up Bran & party into the 'underworld'. Would that be like being swallowed into the 'belly of the beast', also I wonder?

Great stuff!

Great point about the "belly of the beast." In the Campbell breakdown of the heroes journey there is actually a phase called "Belly of the Whale" that heroes go through. In Campbell's breakdown (which is a little too strict sometimes since points along the journey do not HAVE to follow that order but his method is still the most popular way to understand mythology and something GRRM knows quite well...) the belly of the whale happens after you cross a threshold, which is very much what Bran has done by leaving through the Black Gate out into the Frozen-Hellscape. I'll quote Campbell for the Belly of the Whale

The idea that the passage of the magical threshold is a transit into a sphere of rebirth is symbolized in the worldwide womb image of the belly of the whale. The hero, instead of conquering or conciliating the power of the threshold, is swallowed into the unknown and would appear to have died. This popular motif gives emphasis to the lesson that the passage of the threshold is a form of self-annihilation. Instead of passing outward, beyond the confines of the visible world, the hero goes inward, to be born again. The disappearance corresponds to the passing of a worshipper into a temple—where he is to be quickened by the recollection of who and what he is, namely dust and ashes unless immortal. The temple interior, the belly of the whale, and the heavenly land beyond, above, and below the confines of the world, are one and the same. That is why the approaches and entrances to temples are flanked and defended by colossal gargoyles: dragons, lions, devil-slayers with drawn swords, resentful dwarfs, winged bulls. The devotee at the moment of entry into a temple undergoes a metamorphosis. Once inside he may be said to have died to time and returned to the World Womb, the World Navel, the Earthly Paradise. Allegorically, then, the passage into a temple and the hero-dive through the jaws of the whale are identical adventures, both denoting in picture language, the life-centering, life-renewing act.

Sounds familiar, yeah?

Ok. I'll try to respond to other points raised in a day or two. Stupid real world!

[LongRider]

^^^^ Thanks for the Joseph Campbell quote BearQueen! Love him. It's wasn't until I read your essay that I 'saw' that the Black Gate had actually swallowed Bran and Co. and as JC notes above, hoo boy, is it a magical threshold of the 1st degree!

"The hero, instead of conquering or conciliating the power of the threshold, is swallowed into the unknown and would appear to have died." This is an interesting sentence as many believe that Bran has died, and the one who knows he wasn't killed at WF, no longer knows where he might be or if he lives. So to the people south of the Wall, Bran is 'dead.'

Also; "where he is to be quickened by the recollection of who and what he is, namely dust and ashes unless immortal." Is Bran immortal? His past life has become dust and ashes, as the ashes of WF can attest.

"Allegorically, then, the passage into a temple and the hero-dive through the jaws of the whale are identical adventures, both denoting in picture language, the life-centering, life-renewing act."

Just a tiny OT comment, the bolded reminds me of Arya leaping through the jaws of the giant dragon skulls she found in the red keep.....

[Loic]

The idea that the passage of the magical threshold is a transit into a sphere of rebirth is symbolized in the worldwide womb image of the belly of the whale. The hero, instead of conquering or conciliating the power of the threshold, is swallowed into the unknown and would appear to have died. This popular motif gives emphasis to the lesson that the passage of the threshold is a form of self-annihilation. Instead of passing outward, beyond the confines of the visible world, the hero goes inward, to be born again. The disappearance corresponds to the passing of a worshipper into a temple—where he is to be quickened by the recollection of who and what he is, namely dust and ashes unless immortal. The temple interior, the belly of the whale, and the heavenly land beyond, above, and below the confines of the world, are one and the same. That is why the approaches and entrances to temples are flanked and defended by colossal gargoyles: dragons, lions, devil-slayers with drawn swords, resentful dwarfs, winged bulls. The devotee at the moment of entry into a temple undergoes a metamorphosis. Once inside he may be said to have died to time and returned to the World Womb, the World Navel, the Earthly Paradise. Allegorically, then, the passage into a temple and the hero-dive through the jaws of the whale are identical adventures, both denoting in picture language, the life-centering, life-renewing act.

That's one of the reasons why I'm a little sceptycal about speaking of a classic catabasis, at least according to the current chapter (and sceptycal as well as for Bran's future development in TWoW... but on that regard we lack material to speculate of).

Jonah (since we are speaking of whales), Dante, Ulysses, Orpheus and so on undergo through a trial, a rite of passage that leaves huge consequences: once they are out again, they are changed - usually for the better. They acquire informations, receive visions, oftentimes learn about the future.

Now, while Bran's arc is heavily characterized by the themes of learning, knowledge and growth (sexual, warg-related, and personal) personally I don't see them when he enters the Black Gate: (1) there's no actual challenge, (2) their guide turns out to be not a supernatural being, but fat Samwell Tarly (who knows nothing more than Bran: he knows nothing about Coldhands, nor the Three Eyed Crow, and not much more about the Others - more importantly, he doesn't even speak of them in a relevant way). There are no visions nor teachings, and as far as ADwD goes Bran's mind doesn't recall back on the descent. (3) There's no real growth.

Bran doesn't come out changed.

...at least for the current episode.

Maybe mine is a debate over semantics, but I wouldn't speak of catabasis, at least not yet. This one's just a descent to get to a place that I feel (or better fear, at least for the NW members) we will see again in the future book.

However, with Bran, thus far, there is no ascent. (Put in pin in that because there is something interesting in ADWD Bran II that I'll mention when we get there).

Can't wait to read!

Necessary edit upon a reread of your analisys, put under spoiler since it's more about Dante's Comedy rather than Asoiaf

Dante’s own guide is Virgil. It’s important to note that Virgil, the guide, is not allowed to move beyond Hell; a vitreous pagan he might be, but he is not allowed to see the divine realm of Purgatory and Paradise.

Absolutely not: Virgil travels with Dante

1 technically on earth, even if just for a little

2 through all Hell - which he knows quite well, being a resident

3 through almost all the Purgatory up to XXVII out of XXXIII canti - and the reader can easily see that Virgil becomes way less "street-smart", if you can stomach the term - this is a realm he has never seen before >_>

...but as you point out, he cannot ascend to the Heavens for obvious reasons.

Dante's guides through all the Comedy: 1 Hell - Virgil

2 Purgatory - Virgil up to XXI

3 Purgatory (after XXI) - Virgil + Statius

4 End of Purgatory and Heaven up until the last canti - Beatrice

5 last portion of Heaven up until God's vision - St. Bernard

Sorry, but I love those books too much to let it pass!

Hope it doesn't sound too obnoxious :P

[BearQueen87]

That's one of the reasons why I'm a little sceptycal about speaking of a classic catabasis, at least according to the current chapter (and sceptycal as well as for Bran's future development in TWoW... but on that regard we lack material to speculate of).

Jonah (since we are speaking of whales), Dante, Ulysses, Orpheus and so on undergo through a trial, a rite of passage that leaves huge consequences: once they are out again, they are changed - usually for the better. They acquire informations, receive visions, oftentimes learn about the future.

Now, while Bran's arc is heavily characterized by the themes of learning, knowledge and growth (sexual, warg-related, and personal) personally I don't see them when he enters the Black Gate: (1) there's no actual challenge, (2) their guide turns out to be not a supernatural being, but fat Samwell Tarly (who knows nothing more than Bran: he knows nothing about Coldhands, nor the Three Eyed Crow, and not much more about the Others - more importantly, he doesn't even speak of them in a relevant way). There are no visions nor teachings, and as far as ADwD goes Bran's mind doesn't recall back on the descent. (3) There's no real growth.

Bran doesn't come out changed.

...at least for the current episode.

Maybe mine is a debate over semantics, but I wouldn't speak of catabasis, at least not yet. This one's just a descent to get to a place that I feel (or better fear, at least for the NW members) we will see again in the future book.

Hmmmm

I've read your response like 3x now trying to figure out exactly how to respond. I think I came up with this: we all love GRRM because he takes those classic tropes or literary devices and he messes with them. Some like to call him the breaker of tropes, but I consider him more a Messer-Upper-Of-Tropes. I'd say that it might not be a strict classic katabasis, but the themes of it all fit (something you acknowledge I guess by saying that this is a rather semantics driven debate). The guide isn't supernatural, but this speaks to something SOOGM pointed out a page back: the hero's journey isn't magical. Destiny...sucks. The guide isn't magical, the wizard is going to turn out to be a ruthless Targ who is attached to a tree, the temple of wisdom is a cave of bones.

To the Campbell points you bolded:

--To the outside world Bran is dead. He has appeared to have died to everyone who is not Jojen, Meera, Hodor, BR, Coldhands, Gilly, and Sam. The Liddel we met a few chapters ago might count but I also suspect he's simply "magic" making sure the little hero gets to where he is going.

--To be born again: we need Winds. (or to get to ADWD soon...) (thankfully the latter is coming..)

--The Temple. Put a pin in that. We'll revisit it in ADWD Bran II

Sorry, but I love those books too much to let it pass!

Hope it doesn't sound too obnoxious :P

As someone who equally loves Dante, I love the enthusiasm :)

[Loic]

I've read your response like 3x now trying to figure out exactly how to respond. I think I came up with this: we all love GRRM because he takes those classic tropes or literary devices and he messes with them. Some like to call him the breaker of tropes, but I consider him more a Messer-Upper-Of-Tropes. I'd say that it might not be a strict classic katabasis, but the themes of it all fit (something you acknowledge I guess by saying that this is a rather semantics driven debate). The guide isn't supernatural, but this speaks to something SOOGM pointed out a page back: the hero's journey isn't magical. Destiny...sucks. The guide isn't magical, the wizard is going to turn out to be a ruthless Targ who is attached to a tree, the temple of wisdom is a cave of bones.

To the Campbell points you bolded:

--To the outside world Bran is dead. He has appeared to have died to everyone who is not Jojen, Meera, Hodor, BR, Coldhands, Gilly, and Sam. The Liddel we met a few chapters ago might count but I also suspect he's simply "magic" making sure the little hero gets to where he is going.

--To be born again: we need Winds. (or to get to ADWD soon...) (thankfully the latter is coming..)

--The Temple. Put a pin in that. We'll revisit it in ADWD Bran II

1 Completely agree: imo GRRM did not invent anything. However he knows tropes and common themes so well that he can subvert/change slightly whenever necessary, and from time to time he adds some dark or ironic twist to top it all.

That's why he's sick good!

2 Yep, and that's why it ends now >_>

I have to necessarly add that obviously when we take into exam a topos like the catabasis, of course, I'm not reading everything under the light of those who created those specific topoi... nor I expect someone else to do it. Wtf, academicism should be banned from Hearth.

3 I can't believe I forgot that.

[BearQueen87]

Finally have a moment to read earlier things:

A great and very extensive analysis BearQueen!

I do not have much to add to the application of the gothic horror and ghost story structures to the chapter. Only one thing that enhances this eerie feeling that is present in this chapter. The things they find are nothing unusual for a castle: A library, a bell tower, a rookery, cells, a practice yard and more. But the books are gone, the shelves collapsed, the bells are gone, the birds too and the practice yard is unusable due to a giant thornbush. These places cannot fulfill their original function anymore. These functions are a thing of the past, mere shadows. And this transfers itself to the overall atmosphere, which combined with the stories that are told about the Nightfort is not a good thing. Interesting to note is that the Night's Watch itself wants to forget this place: 'Benjen Stark never said the tales were true, but ht never said they weren't; he only shrugged and said, "We left the Nightfort two hundred years ago," as if this was an answer.' The Nightfort is a reminder of things that went wrong with the Night's Watch and they did not want to remember, it is a shunned place. Which is maybe a reason for the lack of information Sam encounters.

1. Thanks

2. Benjen's response has always intrigued me. What does Ben know (something I ask myself quite a bit as it pertains to both the Nightfort and to RLJ)? How much do any of the NW know? The answer Ben once gave to Bran can be read in two ways. First, it's the standard answer any man of the NW would give--almost as if it has been drilled into them. Or, second, it's what Ben has to say because he can't speak the truth of what happened at the NW but he does know. As First Ranger of the NW, I suspect he knows quite a bit about the history of the NW, including the less savory aspects. I think Ben has quite a few stories to tell and his prolonged absence from the narrative is building up to his return to tell us all...something.

Given that what we know about Night's King is very suggestive but still scattered, I'm staying agnostic. We very likely will get an answer in TWOW.

Most likely, yes.

I am...hesitant to bring up the show in this regard because I'm never sure anymore what is D and D and what is GRRM. But in S4 we did see

some figure who in the press release on HBO, before they realized they had given something major away and took it down, was called the Night's King and was also called Brandon Stark. Now whether or not any of that is GRRM's truth, I don't know. but given my own headcanon that BtB = LH = NK, I thought I'd bring it up

Video in case people need refresher on the scene I am referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XOawFDdUsA

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

I would like to add something else, somewhat off-topic concerning Bran and Gorne's Way.

Bran’s vision of the woman who emerged from the black pool

I was pondering one of Bran’s visions during his last ADWD during a re-read so as to make some comparisons to Dany’s:

a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her

Then a certain connection struck me: This woman sounds like the Stark daughter Bael the Bard “seduced”:

one night as he lay waiting to die, Lord Brandon heard a child’s cry. He followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast.”
“Bael had brought her back?”
“No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says… though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote.

There is already a very strongly evidenced connection between the Crypts of Winterfell and Gorne’s Way, but in particular there seems to be a link between the strange black pool, and the “swift black river” underneath the the Cave of the Three-Eyed-Crow. The godswood, like all of Winterfell, is fed by hot springs, but the pool is described as “cool” even in the depths of summer. Osha playfully suggests that there might be something significant at the bottom, if there’s a bottom at all in the strictest sense:

How can you swim in there?” he asked Osha. “Isn’t it cold?”

“As a babe I suckled on icicles, boy. I like the cold.” Osha swam to the rocks and rose dripping. She was naked, her skin bumpy with gooseprickles. Summer crept close and sniffed at her. “I wanted to touch the bottom.”

“I never knew there was a bottom.”

“Might be there isn’t.” She grinned.

The placement of the vision also fits in terms of time for it be the Stark daughter: before Ned’s generation and after the “A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows” who sounds like the Brandon Snow, Torrhens’s brother who wanted to use weirwood arrows and stealth to slay the dragons (”there is power in a living wood, a power as strong as fire”), thus after the Conquest. Brandon the Daughterless was a lord, not a king.

What Ygritte suggested was right: the Stark daughter didn’t love Bael, as he always boasted in his songs. He “stole” her in the classic Free Folk fashion and raped her. She hid in the crypts (or otherwise used them to return home with Gorne’s Way) and then emerged from the dark pool in the godswood and prayed that her son would avenger her by killing Bael, which is exactly what he did.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

I would like to add something else, somewhat off-topic concerning Bran and Gorne's Way.

Bran’s vision of the woman who emerged from the black pool

I was pondering one of Bran’s visions during his last ADWD during a re-read so as to make some comparisons to Dany’s:

a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her

Then a certain connection struck me: This woman sounds like the Stark daughter Bael the Bard “seduced”:

one night as he lay waiting to die, Lord Brandon heard a child’s cry. He followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast.”

“Bael had brought her back?”

“No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says… though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote.

There is already a very strongly evidenced connection between the Crypts of Winterfell and Gorne’s Way, but in particular there seems to be a link between the strange black pool, and the “swift black river” underneath the the Cave of the Three-Eyed-Crow. The godswood, like all of Winterfell, is fed by hot springs, but the pool is described as “cool” even in the depths of summer. Osha playfully suggests that there might be something significant at the bottom, if there’s a bottom at all in the strictest sense:

How can you swim in there?” he asked Osha. “Isn’t it cold?”

“As a babe I suckled on icicles, boy. I like the cold.” Osha swam to the rocks and rose dripping. She was naked, her skin bumpy with gooseprickles. Summer crept close and sniffed at her. “I wanted to touch the bottom.”

“I never knew there was a bottom.”

“Might be there isn’t.” She grinned.

The placement of the vision also fits in terms of time for it be the Stark daughter: before Ned’s generation and after the “A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows” who sounds like the Brandon Snow, Torrhens’s brother who wanted to use weirwood arrows and stealth to slay the dragons (”there is power in a living wood, a power as strong as fire”), thus after the Conquest. Brandon the Daughterless was a lord, not a king.

What Ygritte suggested was right: the Stark daughter didn’t love Bael, as he always boasted in his songs. He “stole” her in the classic Free Folk fashion and raped her. She hid in the crypts (or otherwise used them to return home with Gorne’s Way) and then emerged from the dark pool in the godswood and prayed that her son would avenger her by killing Bael, which is exactly what he did.

thats an awesome catch.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

That was a really nice essay BQ, thanks for the background on gothic and horror stories, it is something new I learnt from this essay.

I don't really have much to add but I wanted to comment on the Black Gate and Nightfort.

The Black Gate

My mind might be all over the place in this post so bear with me

1. The black Gate is made of weirwood so I'm guessing it was built by the COtF, also the ward that keeps Coldhands away is another sign that it is connected to the children. So the first assumption is that the black gate was built by the CotF
   
2. Why was it built? I think most readers would jump to the conclusion that it was built to keep Wights out since Coldhands couldn't get through from the North but also Bran and his crew can't get North without the help of a blackbrother. So the black gate serves as a gateway for only black brothers. Does this mean every other human was banned from coming North when this was built? I'm also wondering whther this means that the gate serves two purposes, a defense from both the North and South.
   
3. If the gate was built by the COTF and it seems to also stop humans except the Night Watch from coming North, was it built to prevent men from slaughtering them further?
   
4. Also I'm wondering whether it was built as part of the wall or later on to an already built wall. Cause logically if the same builders that built the wall made the gate, why not make the whole wall out of weirwood rather than just one gate?
   
5. Warm salty tear might be related to the magic in the black gate keeping the wight's away, since we saw in Bran's chapter that the don't like fire.
   

Nightfort

I'm also wondering when this was built, after the wall was built or at the same time as the wall. If I remember correctly the chapter states that it is the only castle connected to the wall, is that a hint it was built with the wall?

ETA: Also the quote about the Night King ruling the night, could be a hint that he was a warg that ruled in the night whiles in his wolf.

[BearQueen87]

That was a really nice essay BQ, thanks for the background on gothic and horror stories, it is something new I learnt from this essay.

I don't really have much to add but I wanted to comment on the Black Gate and Nightfort.

Thanks!

So the black gate serves as a gateway for only black brothers. Does this mean every other human was banned from coming North when this was built? I'm also wondering whther this means that the gate serves two purposes, a defense from both the North and South.

Yeah I think this is a good point. There is a reason why it's only the words of the Black Brothers that open the door. The original NW or thereabout wanted to keep *everything* out, including the humans who were on the other (little o) side. And think about it; the giants and the COTF help the NW but then they lock them out of the land that was there's and that they apparently helped defend from the Others? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark (Westeros?) here.

Also I'm wondering whether it was built as part of the wall or later on to an already built wall. Cause logically if the same builders that built the wall made the gate, why not make the whole wall out of weirwood rather than just one gate?

Yes good question. It's like the NW used the COTF against the COTF themselves. (honestly, the history between the NW and COTF is really bothersome)

Warm salty tear might be related to the magic in the black gate keeping the wight's away, since we saw in Bran's chapter that the don't like fire.

Oh I like that.

I'm also wondering when this was built, after the wall was built or at the same time as the wall. If I remember correctly the chapter states that it is the only castle connected to the wall, is that a hint it was built with the wall?

I think the Nightfort is the first holdfast. And if the purpose is to keep everything else not NW out..then did the NW build the rest of the wall on their own?

ETA: Also the quote about the Night King ruling the night, could be a hint that he was a warg that ruled in the night whiles in his wolf.

Well he was a Stark.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Thanks!

Yeah I think this is a good point. There is a reason why it's only the words of the Black Brothers that open the door. The original NW or thereabout wanted to keep *everything* out, including the humans who were on the other (little o) side. And think about it; the giants and the COTF help the NW but then they lock them out of the land that was there's and that they apparently helped defend from the Others? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark (Westeros?) here.

Yes good question. It's like the NW used the COTF against the COTF themselves. (honestly, the history between the NW and COTF is really bothersome)

Oh I like that.

I think the Nightfort is the first holdfast. And if the purpose is to keep everything else not NW out..then did the NW build the rest of the wall on their own?

Well he was a Stark.

I agree the whole NW fought with the CotF to end the long night and afterwards the latter gets locked away up north doesn't make a lot of sense. The crackpot in me thinks the wall was built before the long night and the black gate was built after the long night but I don't have hardcore evidence to support it.

@Nightfort

That's what I think. That the lower parts of the wall was originally built by a different group ( maybe others?) and probably taken over by the NW and built taller by them, so the original intention of the wall isn't the same as the Night's Watch. Perhaps we might get more info on that in TWOW through Bran's chapters.

ETA: Given the Black gate was very likely built by the children, it seems part of their intentions were that they didn't want men coming north of the wall, except for the NW.

[BearQueen87]

@Nightfort

That's what I think. That the lower parts of the wall was originally built by a different group ( maybe others?) and probably taken over by the NW and built taller by them, so the original intention of the wall isn't the same as the Night's Watch. Perhaps we might get more info on that in TWOW through Bran's chapters.

Perhaps the Night's King didn't take the Nightfort as his castle through magic and declarations of being king (as per Old Nan's story) but rather built the Nightfort as his castle. He was "gifted" the land by the Others/First Men/COTF for his part in bringing peace that ended the conflict (my somewhat crack pot that the Night's King is also the LH/BtB and his "Other woman" is really his wife through a marriage pact). The Night's King was overthrown by those who did not like the deals made between man and Other and in overthrowing the NK, the new Night's Watch told stories of black magic to make what they did more palatable.

[DarkSister1001]

Sorry gang. Had issues getting on here and on my cloud drive yesterday. I'll post Varamyr shortly.

[DarkSister1001]

A Dance with Dragons, Prologue

Abomination. Abomination. Abomination.

Until Varamyr Sixskins, readers have only been able to take the journey with wargs & skinchangers learning as the characters do. Varamyr has experience and was taught by another of his kind, Haggon, offering a unique look into their world. Though this chapter is bursting with information that could potentially pertain to almost any of the Stark children, the focus will be on the information and their specific link to Bran and his quest. Information learned in later chapters is used to help make the link, though not analyzed.

Related Works

BearQueen87 has a wonderfully insightful section Wargs: Myth & Literature in her Bran VI analysis. A small addition…

The wargs and skinchangers in Tolkien’s world are somewhat different, so far, than what is in Martin’s. In Tolkien’s Middle Earth wargs are wolves, evil, huge, terrible beasts and fierce enemies of skinchangers. In The Hobbit, Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves were hunted by Orcs riding wargs and The Company was assisted by Beorn, a skinchanger chieftain from the North. Beorn could change into a great black bear and spoke the languages of bears, dogs and horses. His home was full of hyper intelligent animals that could walk upright, carrying dishes of food and set a table. Gandalf said, "Some say that he is a bear descended from the great and ancient bears of the mountains that lived there before the giants came. Others say that he is a man descended from the first men who lived before Smaug and the other dragons came into this part of the world, and before the goblins came into the hills out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person to ask questions of." (The Hobbit, Queer Lodgings)

Gift of the God’s

So far, only those descended from the First Men have the ability to skinchange and warg. There seems to be a genetic marker in that bloodline that allows the Old God’s to give the gift to those descendants as they see fit. The First Men worshiped the Old God’s as did the Children of the Forest. The Old God’s sent the direwolves to the Stark children, as protectors and perhaps to hurry along their training. With the wolves came the ability to enter their mind and wear their skin. The Starks are not alone in their gift. Aside from Varamyr and his mentor Haggon there is also Orell, Borroq, Grisella and the other nameless attendants of the gathering.

Varamyr could see the weirwood’s red eyes staring down at him from the white trunk. The gods are weighing me. A shiver went through him. He had done bad things. He had stolen, killed, raped. He had gorged on human flesh and lapped the blood of dying men as it gushed red and hot from their throats. He had stalked foes through the woods, fallen on them as they slept, clawed their entrails from their bellies and scattered them across the muddy earth. How sweet their meat had tasted. “That was the beast, not me,” he said in a hoarse whisper. “That was the gift you gave me.”

The gods made no reply.

It is safe to assume that the women Varamyr sent his shadowcat after would be wildlings with the blood of the First Men. The resulting offspring would have the necessary genetics on both the paternal and maternal sides to be able to receive the gift. The fact that none of them had the gift supports the idea that the gift itself must come from the Old God’s.

Some he even blessed with children. Runts, Small, puny things, like Lump, and not one with the gift.

The Stark children are wargs. The can enter the mind of their direwolves. Bran & Arya seem to be skinchangers as well, meaning they can enter other minds as evidenced by Bran entering Hodor and the heavy implication that Arya saw through the eyes of a cat in Bravos.

Not all skinchangers felt the same, however. Once, when Lump was ten, Haggon had taken him to a gathering of such. The wargs were the most numerous in that company, the wolf-brothers, but the boy had found others stranger and more fascinating. Borroq looked so much like his boar that all he lacked was tusks, Orell had his eagle, Briar her shadowcat (the moment he saw them, Lump wanted a shadowcat of his own), the goat woman Grisella…

Gone into the trees and streams, gone into the rocks and earth. Gone into the dirt and ashes. That was what the woods witch told his mother, the day Bump died. Lump did not want to be a clod of earth.

For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind.

He was in the snow and in the clouds, he was a sparrow, a squirrel, an oak. A horned owl flew silently between his trees, hunting a hare; Varamyr was inside the owl, inside the hare, inside the trees. Deep below the frozen ground, earthworms burrowed blindly in the dark, and he was them as well. I am the wood, and everything that’s in it, he thought, exulting. A hundred ravens took to the air, cawing as they felt him pass. A great elk trumpeted, unsettling the children clinging to his back. A sleeping direwolf raised his head to snarl at the empty air. Before their hearts could beat again he had passed on, searching for his own, for One Eye, Sly, and Stalker, for his pack. His wolves would save him, he told himself.

That was his last thought as a man.

The idea of returning to nature when one dies is becoming much more common in the series. This idea will only grow as we return to Bran. The line about the children on the back of the elk was a clever nod to Bran & Co.

Bump sees. He is watching me. He knows.

Stemming from this is the idea that returning to the earth is also a way for the Old God’s to collect knowledge from the fallen. Perhaps for the purposes of judgement in a Saint-Peter-at-the-Pearly-Gates way. Much more likely reasoning is in preparation for the upcoming war. Reconnaissance on a grand scale that is taking years to collect.

This gives a good indication that The Others have a similar way of collecting information about their foe and to use it against them. We know that the wights that attacked Lord Commander Mormont seemed to know where his chambers were.

The things below moved, but did not live. One by one, they raised their heads toward the three wolves on the hill. The last to look was the thing that had been Thistle. She wore wool and fur and leather, and over that she wore a coat of hoarfrost that crackled when she moved and glistened in the moonlight. Pale pink icicles hung from her fingertips, ten long knives of frozen blood. And in the pits where her eyes had been, a pale blue light was flickering, lending her coarse features an eerie beauty they had never know in life.

She sees me.

He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another.

The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it.

Varamyr instantly recognized Jon Snow as a warg. Similarly Mel feels the power in Ghost and Jojen feels the power in Summer and Shaggydog when they first meet. Mel being a red priestess and Jojen having the gift of sight suggests that it isn’t just a warg knowing the presence of another warg but magic being able to recognize magic. Mel burning Orell’s eagle gives backbone to this idea. She’s not in the habit of burning all birds she comes across in her travels. This one in particular was being wargged and used as a spy on them and this one in particular burns.

Animals & Characteristics

He was not wrong, Varamyr thought, shivering. Haggon taught me much and more. He taught me how to bone a fish, how to find my way through the woods. And he taught me the way of the warg and the secrets of the skinchanger, though my gift was stronger than his own.

His shadowcat had raced into the woods, whilst his snow bear turned her claws on those around her, ripping apart four men before falling to a spear. She would have slain Varamyr had he come within her reach. The bear hated him, had raged each time he wore her skin or climbed upon her back.

Dogs were the easiest beasts to bond with; they lived so close the men that were almost human. Slipping into a dog’s skin was like putting on an old boot, its leather softened by wear. As a boot was shaped to accept a foot, a dog was shaped to accept a collar, even a collar no human eye could see. Wolves were harder. A man might befriend a wolf, even break a wolf, but no man could truly tame a wolf. “Wolves and women wed for like,” Haggon often said. “You take one, that’s a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you’re part of him. Both of you will change.”

Other beasts were best left alone, the hunter had declared. Cats were vain and cruel, always ready to turn on you. Elk and deer were prey; wear their skins too long, and even the bravest man became a coward. Bears, boars, badgers, weasels …Haggon did not hold with such. “Some skins you never want to wear, boy. You won’t like what you become.” Birds were the worst, to hear him tell it. “Men were not meant to leave the earth. Spend too much time in the clouds and you never want to come back down again. I know skinchangers who’ve tried hawks, owls, ravens. Even in their own skins, they sit moony, staring up at the bloody blue.”

Varamyr could take any beast he wanted, bend them to his will, make their flesh his own. Dog or wolf, bear or badger…

So much information in here but some of the validity must be questioned. Right off the bat there’s the warning of cats. Varamyr had a shadowcat. Though not exactly the same, they are both felines and share enough common traits to suggest that issues with skinchanging a cat or shadowcat would yield the same difficulties. Readers see an eagle, plenty of crows and ravens, a cat, a shadowcat, a bear and quite possibly an elk all being controlled by skinchangers. Haggon is not correct but not completely wrong either. It would make sense that those that had stronger gifts could better enter the mind of more difficult creatures and thus the difficulties experienced with those animals would be lessened.

Varamyr’s description of a dog being like a boot is something that will come up with Bran and Hodor in another chapter. Let’s put a pin in that thought.

Wargs have no fear of man, as wolves do.

Fearlessness, that’s quite a trait. The Night’s King was said to have lived utterly without fear. Perhaps he was a warg and therefore had no fear of man? Bran is still young, mostly untrained and in a precarious position with his injury. He is not fearless; though that may not always be the case. He draws strength from Summer and perhaps the more animals he bonds with the stronger he will become. With that strength his fears will dissolve.

As he ran, he saw through their eyes too and glimpsed himself ahead.

There are many times and there are many different ways in which being able to see from various vantage points would be extremely helpful. Often Bran enters Summer to scout ahead. Since the safety of Bran and Company is paramount to the realm, this is an advantageous gift, to say the least.

Swords, a voice inside him whispered, spears.

While in the mind of an animal Varamyr can still hear himself the way Bran-in-Summer can hear Bran; though the “voices” (thoughts) of their skinchanger counterpart always comes across as a whisper. This solidifies Jojen’s earlier comment about the animal being in control. The desire of the skinchanger is reduced to a muffle and the primitive instincts of the beast are in charge. One must learn to master the animal.

Thou Shall Not…

To eat of human meat was an abomination, to mate wolf with wolf was an abomination, and to seize the body of another man was the worst abomination of all.

The Old God’s do not seem inclined to bestow powerful gifts on someone just for the sake of making them powerful. There’s a purpose, otherwise it would not be 200 years in between direwolf sightings south of the Wall and the previous Lord Starks would have had more than just stone direwolves at the feet of their tombs. There are reasons and guidelines to having and using this ability. Though only the god’s know the reasons, the rules seem to be necessary and logical. No cannibalism, no bestiality and no mind control. Any possible exceptions or bending of these rules comes down to necessity.

A child’s flesh, he thought, remembering Bump. Human meat. Had he sunk so low as to hunger after human meat? He could almost hear Haggon growling at him. “Men many eat the flesh of beasts and beasts the flesh of men, but the man who eats the flesh of man is an abomination.”

Only in the extreme circumstances, as in being trapped in the frozen Alps with no food, no hope and scores of frozen deceased, is cannibalism even remotely understandable. For a warg or skinchanger there is no need for them to be in the mind of an animal eating any flesh. The skinchangers body does not get nourishment when the animal eats.

Below, the world had turned to ice. Fingers of frost crept slowly up the weirwood, reaching for each other. The empty village was no longer empty. Blue-eyed shadows walked amongst the mounds of snow. Some wore brown and some wore black and some were naked, their flesh gone white as snow. A wind was sighing through the hills, heavy with their scents: dead flesh, dry blood, skins that stank of mold and rot and urine. Sly gave a growl and bared her teeth, her ruff bristling. Not men. Not prey. Not these.

The bolded part only left more questions. Varamyr has accepted eating the flesh of men, even infants but will not devour a wight. They are still flesh, albeit dead. Does that not make them prey? Is there an amount of time in which a wight must be consumed for it to be acceptable? Thistle is freshly wighted. And it seems as though the wights are they’re enemy. Or is it fear of the wights that keeps him and his pack from attacking?

Haggon would have called it an abomination, but Varamyr had often slipped inside her skin as she was being mounted by One Eye. He did not want to spend his new life as a bitch, though, not unless he had no other choice. Stalked might suit him better, the younger male…though One Eye was larger and fiercer, and it was One Eye who took Sly whenever she went into heat.

Um, why? What is the purpose of being present in the mind of the female wolf during mating? Once could be chalked up to perverse curiosity but Varamyr did it “often”. Mating while in the mind of an animal does not net any gain or fulfill any purpose.

For these reasons for a skinchanger to eat human flesh or mate while in the mind of their animal is simply an abomination. Seizing the mind of another human is a much more gray matter and will be discussed at more length.

Free Will-y

Haggon would call it an abomination, the blackest sin of all, but Haggon was dead, devoured, and burned.

Mind control has been present in science fiction for many years. It can be brought on by a variety of causes, both natural and unnatural, and to varying degrees. In real life, though mind control has not been a proven science, we see and are affected by versions of mind alteration, such as subliminal marketing campaigns regularly. In this particular series characters project dreams into the minds of others, penetrate the minds of animals and even a few humans and we see several cases of manipulation.

At the very least, influencing the mind of another is taboo. To err is human, as the saying goes. No one is perfect and along the path of our lives people make mistakes as a result of free will. These mistakes shape us into who we are for better or worse. To impede on that free will is mostly considered an atrocity. There are times when people seem to accept manipulation and controlling as an appropriate means to an end. Some accepted examples in our society and pop culture are:

Santa Clause. It seems unlikely that an individual would out-and-out admit to manipulating another person. In fact, they would probably be offended if it was even suggested to them in such a manner. Most parents that celebrate Christmas often tell a child that “Santa is watching” in order to receive a desired behavior. When this is to be brought up to those parents as an example of manipulation & control they tend to shrug it off, though by definition that is exactly what it is.

Professor Charles Xavier of the X-Men franchise is known for his strong telepathic gift. Though he is undeniably a “good guy” he regularly reads and controls minds of those he must in order to fulfill his task at hand.

Even the great Obi Wan Kenobi from Star Wars used the Jedi Mind Trick when confronted by Storm Troopers. “These are not the droids you’re looking for” he said as he waved his hand. The Storm Troopers, without knowing what he had done, agreed with his statement and went on their way. This was necessary for Obi Wan to evade capture and continue on their mission. The Jedi are strictly prohibited from using the Mind Trick for personal gain because it affects free will.

There’s a very good chance that the Storm Troopers tricked by Obi Wan were killed or otherwise disciplined as a result of their “dereliction” of duty. Is Obi Wan responsible? Are they collateral damage during wartime? Is that a case of an acceptable means to and end? I believe the answer, much like our Starks, is gray. It completely depends on intentions. Quieting Hodor to keep their location secret is an acceptable necessity; conversely Varamyr taking control of Thistle for the sole purpose of robbing her of her body is evil. One must have the wisdom, compassion and care to acceptably have such a powerful gift. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

This is such a dark humorless chapter here’s a little comedic relief courtesy of the movie Friday, “I got mind control over Deebo. He be like ‘shut the fuck up.’ I be quiet. But when he leave, I be talking again.”

No, Father, please, he tried to say, but dogs cannot speak the tongues of men, so all that emerged was a piteous whine. The axe crashed into the middle of the old dog’s skull, and inside the hovel the boy let out a scream. That was how they knew. Two days later, his father dragged him into the wood. He brought his axe, so Lump though he meant to put him down the same way he had done the dogs. Instead he had given him to Haggon.

He summoned all the strength still in him, leapt out of his own skin, and forced himself inside her.

Thistle arched her back and screamed.

Abomination. Was that her, or him, or Haggon? He never knew. His old flesh fell back into the snowdrift as her fingers loosened. The spearwife twisted violently, shrieking. His shadowcat used to fight him wildly, and the snow bear had gone half-mad for a time, snapping at trees and rocks and empty air, but this was worse. “Get out, get out!” he heard her own mouth shouting. Her body staggered, fell, and rose again, her hands flailed, her legs jerked this way and that in some grotesque dance as his spirit and her own fought for the flesh. She sucked down a mouthful of the frigid air, and Varamyr had half a heartbeat to glory in the taste of it and the strength of this young body before her teeth snapped together and filled his mouth with blood. She raised her hands to his face. He tried to push them down again, but the hands would no obey, and she was clawing at his eyes. Abomination, he remembered, drowning in blood and pain and madness. When he tried to scream, she spat out their tongue.

True death came suddenly; he felt a shock of cold, as if he had been plunged into the icy waters of a frozen lake. Then he found himself rushing over moonlit snows with his packmates close behind him. Half the world was dark. One Eye, he knew. He bayed, and Sly and Stalker gave echo.

Ignoring the implications this section has regarding other characters and focusing on the characteristics of skinchanging still leaves quite a bit to discuss. First, the skinchanger can feel what their animal feels. We saw this when Summer was injured and Bran attempted to reach him. The pain pushed him out. It was the pain Varamyr felt when the dog his was in was killed that told his parents that they were joined.

Secondly, the will of the enterer must be stronger than the enteree. This is only the second glimpse of skinchanging a human we see on page. Hodor recoiled in fear, Thistle fought wildly. Varamyr’s gift and his desire to live but it was not stronger than Thistle’s will to remain free.

He was nine times dead and dying, and this would be his true death.

I burned and I died and then I ran, half-mad with pain and terror. The memory shamed him, but he had not been alone.

Haggon’s rough voice echoed in his head. “You will die a dozen deaths, boy, and every one will hurt…but when your true death comes, you will live again. The second life is simpler and sweeter they say.”

His last death had been by fire. I burned. At first, in his confusion, he thought some archer on the Wall had pierced him with a flaming arrow…but the first had been inside him, consuming him. And the pain…

Varamyr had died nine times before. He had died once from a spear thrust, once with a bear’s teeth in his throat, and once in a wash of blood as he brought forth a stillborn cub. He died his first death when he was only six, as his father’s axe crashed through his skull. Even that had not been so agonizing as the fire in his guts, crackling along his wings, devouring him. When he tried to fly from it, his terror fanned the flames and made them burn hotter. One moment he had been soaring above the Wall, his eagle’s eyes marking the movements of men below. Then the flames had turned his heart into a blackened cinder and sent his spirit screaming back into his own skin, and for a little while he’d gone mad. Even the memory was enough to make him shudder.

Again, solidifying the idea that the warg/skinchanger can feel what their animal feels, though it doesn’t seem like this is doubted.

The intimate connection between man and skinchangee demonstrates the depths of the gift, the possibilities and begs the question…what happens if too much time is spent in another person?

“They say you forget,” Haggon had told him, a few weeks before his own death. “When than man’s flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades, and the beast becomes a little less a warg, and a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast remains.”

Varamyr knew the truth of that. When he claimed the eagle that had been Orell’s, he could feel the other skinchanger raging at his presence. Orell had been slain by the turncloak crow, Jon Snow, and his hate for his killer had been so strong that Varamyr found himself hating the beastling boy as well.

Will Bran forget himself the more time he spends in Hodor? Or can they co-exist given Hodor’s unique mental status and trust and love of Bran?

Conclusion

The old powers of the world (Old God’s, Others, Children of the Forest) have been slowly building their influence and gathering information for many years. Descendants of the First Men have the ability to receive the gifts from the Old God’s, though the Old God’s decide on the recipients and have rules. Being in the mind of a beast while mating, feasting on human flesh or the act of entering the mind of another human are abominations. The only exceptions are in cases of necessity for the greater good.

Bran is perched upon a precipice. His age, injury, inexperience and past troubles make it easy to forgive him and make excuses for his behavior. However, unnecessary obstruction with Hodor’s free will pushes him towards the slippery slope that comes with his gift.

Lastly - I apologize for the tardiness. The internet god's are working against me today. Thanks for understanding and patience.

[BearQueen87]

Sorry gang. Had issues getting on here and on my cloud drive yesterday. I'll post Varamyr shortly.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm fairly certain the forum is conspiring against me to keep me off. :) But thanks for posting your analysis; look forward to reading and responding!

[DarkSister1001]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm fairly certain the forum is conspiring against me to keep me off. :) But thanks for posting your analysis; look forward to reading and responding!

Hate that you're going through it, but glad it's not just me. I keep getting "Oops" and 503 error's. It's been going on for a few weeks now. Seems ok today so I need to go back through and catch up.

[MoIaF]

A Dance with Dragons, Prologue

Abomination. Abomination. Abomination.

Very nicely done! Great job! :thumbsup:

Gift of the God’s

So far, only those descended from the First Men have the ability to skinchange and warg. There seems to be a genetic marker in that bloodline that allows the Old God’s to give the gift to those descendants as they see fit. The First Men worshiped the Old God’s as did the Children of the Forest. The Old God’s sent the direwolves to the Stark children, as protectors and perhaps to hurry along their training. With the wolves came the ability to enter their mind and wear their skin. The Starks are not alone in their gift. Aside from Varamyr and his mentor Haggon there is also Orell, Borroq, Grisella and the other nameless attendants of the gathering.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, hoever, I disagree with your conclusion that the Old God's bestow the gift of skinchanging/wargining. I think it's merely a genetic treat that people with First Men Blood may or may not inherit.

First, I don't believe there are any gods in the series, I know we won't be seeing any as per GRRM's comments. The Weirwood are a tool that can be used by the Children or Greenseers to gather information, it's a magical tool but a tool nonetheless.

Going back to the bestowing of gifts, I don't think that their are any gods that decides who gets to be a warg and who doesn't. Had there been any gods would they have not judged V6SK a lot sooner than when they did, they could have surely punished him after he committed his first atrocity. It's also the same with the rules. I think the rules where conceived from a moral sense by the skinchangers of old. They were probably develop in order to safeguard abuse but also to safeguard the skinchangers themselves from becoming to animalistic(eating human flesh).

The gift is a genetic lottery of sorts, some will get it and some will not. I tend to think that the unusualness of all the Stark children being wargs this generations has to do with the increase in magic. That is that the magic awakened the genetic marker they already had, however, you have to had it in order to awaken it. This awakening came in the form of the direwolves.

[DarkSister1001]

Very nicely done! Great job! :thumbsup:

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, hoever, I disagree with your conclusion that the Old God's bestow the gift of skinchanging/wargining. I think it's merely a genetic treat that people with First Men Blood may or may not inherit.

First, I don't believe there are any gods in the series, I know we won't be seeing any as per GRRM's comments. The Weirwood are a tool that can be used by the Children or Greenseers to gather information, it's a magical tool but a tool nonetheless.

Going back to the bestowing of gifts, I don't think that their are any gods that decides who gets to be a warg and who doesn't. Had there been any gods would they have not judged V6SK a lot sooner than when they did, they could have surely punished him after he committed his first atrocity. It's also the same with the rules. I think the rules where conceived from a moral sense by the skinchangers of old. They were probably develop in order to safeguard abuse but also to safeguard the skinchangers themselves from becoming to animalistic(eating human flesh).

The gift is a genetic lottery of sorts, some will get it and some will not. I tend to think that the unusualness of all the Stark children being wargs this generations has to do with the increase in magic. That is that the magic awakened the genetic marker they already had, however, you have to had it in order to awaken it. This awakening came in the form of the direwolves.

Thanks! I actually think the "old god's" are the CotF but I didn't want to confuse things and get too far into crackpot territory. Mainly bc I do believe that the direwolves were specifically sent to the Stark kiddos by someone/thing. The numbers and genders were just too perfect to not be. The Children worshipped the earth and all things nature and when the FM came the CotF took on the role of deities in order to help reign in their destruction and keep the weirwoods as mechanisms to watch over the strangers.

Whether or not they're the ones that actually bestow the gift is definitely something open to discussion. I see what you mean about the increase in magic, but that doesn't explain why those with parents strong in the gift wouldn't get it, like Varamyrs kids. Wouldn't an increase in magic increase the gift all over? I think not giving the gift to Varamyrs offspring was punishment for him. They couldn't take back the gift he had so they kept it from his kids in hopes of avoiding them turning out like him. It's a crapshoot...give it to one, see how they do with it and then decide whether or not to give it to their offspring.

I like your take on the rules being set forth as a moral sense by the skinchangers of old. Not to get into a theological debate but that's what I believe about the religious books in RL.

I sure hope the site continues to cooperate, I've been missing these! :)