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Justification for Dany’s Invasion of Westeros


Mithras

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Dany's motives to take back the throne was

1) She grew up hearing her brother say how her family was wrongfully deposed with the murders of her kin.She wants revenge for them.

2) Everything the usurper has now is what should be hers by right. She was not only denied the throne but also her ancestral home.She was forced to flee for life and never had a permanent home.They have to lose all they had and they have to beg and rely on others for a living. She saw her own brother descend into madness.For her the IT represent "home" and all that she had lost.

3) She was the last member of a proud,powerful family which ruled their kingdom for 300 years.So obviously she would be entitled.

4) She knew that she survived so far was because of her family name.If her family name fades away her life would be even more miserable.So she wants to make her family name live on.

5) The usurper sent assassins to kill her while she was pregnant which fueled her hatred for the usurper.

6) She is compassionate and she wants to make the people of her homeland happy.

7) She has dragons and a powerful army and she has the might.

Now honestly compare it with Robert's motives when he took the throne.

1) While her family was brutally murdered, her brother is not a reliable source. She should know this.

2) What right did Aegon I have to conquer Westeros? Because of the doom? Because he wanted to? Because he had dragons? Because he had Silver/blonde hair and thought he was better than everyone?

3) Again, with the entitlement... Ugh, she's entitled to nothing

4) I get this one. Sense of survival.Kind of blends with #3 but ok

5) Her ancestors were usurpers to not just one kingdom but 7

6) This is your worst argument. She wants to make the people of her homeland happy? She knows NOTHING of the people of her supposed homeland. Plus, she has never even lived in Westeros.

7) Finally, you lay it on the line... Dragons, might, power.... However, just because the bully in elementary school is stronger than you doesn't mean he should take your lunch money.

Also, Robert and co. we're deposing the mad king, who wanted to burn down the city! Yeah, Robert let things get personal, but it's still not a good comparison.

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So, to sum up this thread.



90% of the people are debating Dany's justification for Westeros. Half are using full book reader knowledge (which would largely suggest she isn't), while half are using only Dany's knowledge (which would suggest she is). The other 10% is split between those screaming I HATE/LOVE Dany, so no matter what reasons I use, she's RIGHT/WRONG.


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I'd say the primary reasion for Daenerys to want to take back Westeros is because she feels that is her right. She has been told ever since she was exiled that her family's purpose is to rule, and that mindset is not about to change. However, she does also seem to be driven by a desire to make good for the people, as she is currently trying to do in Slaver's Bay. I'm not that sure she will be able to justify taking back Westeros with doing good for the smallfolk, but she'll probably spin it that way.


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Is this about motives or right or wrong? Because the current debate is on right or wrong.

Robert, Ned and Jon acted in self defense. Neither actually had anything to do with the death of the children or Elia, even the Martells do not hold him accountable for that. They did not like Robert but they blamed Tywin, Tywin was not acting on self defense he was making a political move. He should be held accountable for their deaths along with the men who killed them.

I do not hold Aerys fully accountable for his actions, a mad king is just that and everyone knew he was mad. Rhaegar is at fault here, but he is not the only one. Chelsted and Staunton had their hands in taking advantage of a clearly unssstable person, Rossart had his hand in it as well, and I am sure there are more who tried to take advantage of him.

None of these great lords did a thing when he continued his down spiral into insanity. We also don't have full details of the story. What was Harrenhal about? Was Rhaegar turned down by the likes of Robert and Brandon when he sought support or did he not seek support? Both Tywin and Rhaegar were right about Aerys, yet seemed to have little political support, but again we don't know the full story.

Did Elia and Rhaegars children have to die? No they didn't we have seen Royal blood in exile before, including Dany and Viserys.

Did Robert have the right to spy on Dany and Viserys? No he didn't, Essos is not his country, and he also had no right to try and kill Dany and her baby. Did Illyrio, Varys and Viserys have the right to try and use Dany and to sell her into slavery? No. Just because what Aerys did was wrong does not mean what Tywin and the Mountain did was right. It does not make the assasination attempt on Dany and her unborn child right. What if Robert new about Jon? Ned hid him for a reason, his belief was that Robert would of killed Jon, and given his attempt on Dany Ned was justified in his belief and he saw it first hand and did try and prevent it.

Does Dany have a legal right to the Iron throne? In this world that is open to interpretation, as much as Robert claimed a right, or Stannis claimed a right or Aegon claimed a right. There is no way around the fact that her family built KL. If someone has the right to take what was her families by force, then she has the right to take it back if she so chooses. Weather people agree or not, it is a common theme. Winterfell belongs to the Starks, but it was taken from them, Stannis feels the crown belongs to him and feels it was wrongly taken and those who took it are Usurpers ot the throne, not really different from what Dany feels.

As for her motivations, they have varied through the story. In the begining she had no motivation for the throne, it was her brothers pipe dream. She does want to go home, or to the place she identifies with home. The author also has identified this as her home and even did a personal comparison about his mothers home being taken and wishing he had dragons to take it back.

She spoke with Mormont who guided her in the idea that if she wanted it back she would have to take it. When Drogo turned her down, that was sort of the end of it, till Robert tried to kill her, then Drogo and Dany got pissed. Most people get pissed when someone tries to kill them and their child. It a natural reaction. She further got pissed when she found out Jorah was a spy, that is a rather cruel and personal blow to Dany because she thought he was her friend.

I don't think you can say this is a black and white right or wrong deal here. She has her ancestral legal claim, she has not forgiven the death of her family members like Elia and her children, the attempt on her and her childs life, nor the spying of Jorah, while she misses him, it does not make what happened right. Even after her family was deposed they continued to fuck with her life. They are not innocent in what they did to her.

Other motivations, include a longing for home, or what she identifies as home and her sense of a sort of manifest desity. Now I am not talking about the US version so it should not be used as a comparison, but rather the moments in her life. The waking of the dragons, the red comet, and that moment in Qarth when she asked for a sign of what she should do, and shortly after that a man came to her and informed her that Robert was dead. She has some prophetic woman telling her she needs to return and she has had visions of herself in Westeros.

Right or wrong, the debate will always come down to perspective and personal bias. There really is nothing wrong with wanting a dream, or a desire for home, or a desire to belong someplace. Her sense of manifest destiny is not unsupported in her chapters or by the author, or even by the show. There is a reasonable reason she feels that way. But I don't think we have the full motivation for why she will finally march to Westeros. Remember she has not left for Westeros yet. As we see it's not that hard, you get on some ships and you leave. From her first chapter in Thrones to her last chapter in Dance, her beliefs, wants, desires, motivations, and story are evolving, just like all the other POV's.

When she finally decides to march, and to go to Westeros, whenever that is we will probably have a clearer idea of all her motivations. But I doubt it will be just one thing. Some say it's just as sense of entitlement, and that is part of it, but that is a complete over simplification of her story. It's an attempt to make a black and white argument on a character that is not black and white, written by an author who prefers to deal in grey. That person is only happy or that person is only angry is not true of anyone. You know a big part of Viserys was entitlement, a big part of Dany is she feels it is a right. But she has clearly stated she knows it will not be handed to her, it is not like she does not understand that, she very clearly does even though some have tried to convince her that everyone is waiting with open arms. To be fair, the little we saw of people talking about her in Westeros, was in Oldtown and they did toast to her.

She also had Doran send Quin with a contract, and try to use Dany to come to Westeros and fight for them. That's what they wanted, they didn't get it, and then Quin tried to steal the dragons. And that is another theme in her story is that people are constantly trying to use her. Her brother, Illyrio, Varys, Jorah, Xaro, Hiz, Doran and Quin and even Aegon and Griff who have not met her want to use her. People bring shit on themselves all time, Dany has in slavers bay. As bad as the slavers are and as right as it is to help and free slaves, there was always going to be a consequence to fighting the slavers. She ends up stuck in Meereen dealing with them. That is not what she wanted, but that's life. I can't say she is what the slavers wanted either, but that's the consequence of being a slaver. Law of unintended consequences is always happening in the books.

I don't think the motivations of the characters are as simple as many try to make them. Comparisons like Jon to the Mountain are invalid comparisons, because Jon is a central POV character and is more complex than people often state and someone like the Mountain is a minor non POV character, with no chapters and the reader is only given little and limited insight into him. Jon killed Slynt because he disobeyed and order. Not true, it was far more complex than that, and Jon had other motivations. Robert Baratheon was a non POV, a more central figure but still a non POV, but man you take a good look at Robert and he was a complex dude with issues, like serious issues and motivations, anger, denial, rejection, PTSD, alcholic, loveless marriage, violent, but fun and he could be kind, and also demanding, he could be lazy but also led a war, he could seem stupid, yet also intelligent. Just because a reader may love a character it does not mean they don't make mistakes or fuck up, and just because you dislike a character does not mean they can't be right or justified. A big part of it comes down to perspective and what any given person wishes to see or interpret.

You have a 5 book series and a question of motivations from one of the primary POV's and I see a lot of very short abrupt one demensional answers, which suggests you think Martin is some sort of hack who writes one demensional characters. If some don't want to explore the characters in a character driven series why even bother reading the books?

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I'd say the primary reasion for Daenerys to want to take back Westeros is because she feels that is her right. She has been told ever since she was exiled that her family's purpose is to rule, and that mindset is not about to change. However, she does also seem to be driven by a desire to make good for the people, as she is currently trying to do in Slaver's Bay. I'm not that sure she will be able to justify taking back Westeros with doing good for the smallfolk, but she'll probably spin it that way.

And agree. I think she does want to make good, she is just blinded by ambition, and entitlement.

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I'd say the primary reasion for Daenerys to want to take back Westeros is because she feels that is her right. She has been told ever since she was exiled that her family's purpose is to rule, and that mindset is not about to change. However, she does also seem to be driven by a desire to make good for the people, as she is currently trying to do in Slaver's Bay. I'm not that sure she will be able to justify taking back Westeros with doing good for the smallfolk, but she'll probably spin it that way.

And agree. I think she does want to make good, she is just blinded by ambition, and entitlement.

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I'd say the primary reasion for Daenerys to want to take back Westeros is because she feels that is her right. She has been told ever since she was exiled that her family's purpose is to rule, and that mindset is not about to change. However, she does also seem to be driven by a desire to make good for the people, as she is currently trying to do in Slaver's Bay. I'm not that sure she will be able to justify taking back Westeros with doing good for the smallfolk, but she'll probably spin it that way.

And agree. I think she does want to make good, she is just blinded by ambition, and entitlement.

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I'd say the primary reasion for Daenerys to want to take back Westeros is because she feels that is her right. She has been told ever since she was exiled that her family's purpose is to rule, and that mindset is not about to change. However, she does also seem to be driven by a desire to make good for the people, as she is currently trying to do in Slaver's Bay. I'm not that sure she will be able to justify taking back Westeros with doing good for the smallfolk, but she'll probably spin it that way.

Double post

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