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Could what happened to the Mongols in Japan happen to the Dothraki in the Narrow Sea?


GoT_Academy

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The Dothraki are very similar to the Mongols - both are horse people, nomads, warriors, their geography is similar - the plains. And there is the name of their leaders - Khals and Khans (Khaaaaaaan!).



The Mongols swept through cities and kingdoms with their horses and conquered a third of the world. In Westeros Dany meets them with Drogon and there is reason to believe that she can unite them and lead them, as Gengis Khan did way back. She could take them to Slaver's Bay and then use them to sack Volantis and other cities.



In GoT Viserys wants to take the Dothrakis over the Narrow Sea and King Robert seems to believe that if they do cross nobody could stand in their way. BUT if we look at Mongol history, they did try to cross a narrow sea, twice. Towards Japan. And twice a Typhoon destroyed their ships and saved Japan. This is pretty incredible when you think of it, because the Japanese stood no chance against them.



So could the Dothraki suffer the same fate in the Narrow Sea. Could happen.



We speak of this at length in our video about the Dothraki and Mongols if you want to check it out -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJBZ-xBmajg


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A parallel is that the Mongols tried to invade during the typhoon season and the weather is getting worse in the books as Winter approaches.



What's not similar is that the Mongols tried to bring Japan under their influence by diplomatic means over an extended period while there has been no such action from the Targs in exile.


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A parallel is that the Mongols tried to invade during the typhoon season and the weather is getting worse in the books as Winter approaches.

What's not similar is that the Mongols tried to bring Japan under their influence by diplomatic means over an extended period while there has been no such action from the Targs in exile.

Thanks, interesting. Another not so important difference is that Japan is to the east and not the west. Anyway, since history has been a source of inspiration for GRRM, I'm looking more at the big themes. Since the Dothraki are very similar to the Mongols and will probably sweep through Westeros, Japan's Typhoons could be another source of inspiration.

Check out the video, I think you'll like it :)

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Thanks, interesting. Another not so important difference is that Japan is to the east and not the west. Anyway, since history has been a source of inspiration for GRRM, I'm looking more at the big themes. Since the Dothraki are very similar to the Mongols and will probably sweep through Westeros, Japan's Typhoons could be another source of inspiration.

Check out the video, I think you'll like it :)

Well the Dothraki really aren't that similar to the Mongols at all aside from being horse-riding nomads that use bows. The Mongols had no problem with using armour and heavy cavalry, and were known to adopt the tactics of defeated enemies (I believe most of their siege engineers were Chinese, if I recall correctly). The Dothraki seem rather set in their ways, and not liable to adopt any enemy tactics. While I'm not one of those people who believes that the Westerosi armies would cut through the Dothraki like a hot longsword through butter, the Dothraki wouldn't exactly have an easy time of it either.

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Well the Dothraki really aren't that similar to the Mongols at all aside from being horse-riding nomads that use bows. The Mongols had no problem with using armour and heavy cavalry, and were known to adopt the tactics of defeated enemies (I believe most of their siege engineers were Chinese, if I recall correctly). The Dothraki seem rather set in their ways, and not liable to adopt any enemy tactics. While I'm not one of those people who believes that the Westerosi armies would cut through the Dothraki like a hot longsword through butter, the Dothraki wouldn't exactly have an easy time of it either.

The Dothraki are the Mongols prior to when Gengis Khan (Khal-Khan) united all the tribes and started his conquests. That would make Dany Gengis Khan.

Anyways, we are talking about sources of inspiration not about exact replicas. It's a work of fiction.

"The Dothraki were actually fashioned as an amalgam of a number of steppe and plains cultures... Mongols and Huns, certainly, but also Alans, Sioux, Cheyenne, and various other Amerindian tribes... seasoned with a dash of pure fantasy. So any resemblance to Arabs or Turks is coincidental. Well, except to the extent that the Turks were also originally horsemen of the steppes, not unlike the Alans, Huns, and the rest."

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6040/

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The Dothraki are the Mongols prior to when Gengis Khan (Khal-Khan) united all the tribes and started his conquests. That would make Dany Gengis Khan.

Anyways, we are talking about sources of inspiration not about exact replicas. It's a work of fiction.

"The Dothraki were actually fashioned as an amalgam of a number of steppe and plains cultures... Mongols and Huns, certainly, but also Alans, Sioux, Cheyenne, and various other Amerindian tribes... seasoned with a dash of pure fantasy. So any resemblance to Arabs or Turks is coincidental. Well, except to the extent that the Turks were also originally horsemen of the steppes, not unlike the Alans, Huns, and the rest."

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6040/

I am aware that the Mongols were part of the inspiration, but they're not really 'very similar' to them as you said.

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Well we've seen no evidence that a hurricane has ever even hit Westeros. Not to mention I think a hurricane during the Greyjoy Rebellion would've been much more symbolic a parallel.

Actually hurricanes hit the Stormlands every year. And even if they aren't called hurricanes the autumn storms are said to make sea travel perilous: as we saw with Salladhor's fleet.

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Any seaborne invasion is risky and could suffer the same fate.



If sunk while still crossing, well - game over.



If you land, you can still see your ships destroyed, and be cut off from any reinforcements & supply. Success or failure depends as much on the reaction of those you're landing against; if correct, they can trap you and knock you back into the sea, and if incorrect you establish a firm beachhead and expand from there.



This already came up in the "Where should Dany land an army ?" thread. My opinion was that getting your army firmly established on the mainland was priority #1 - ships are more vulnerable (to weather and the enemy), and you don't want that army to simply be drowned, nor get stuck on some island where they have no means of leaving again.

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We just had a lengthy discussion on what would happen if the Dothraki invaded Westeros. Consensus: They'd never manage to breach a choke point (the fords in the Riverlands, the Bloody Gate, Moat Cailin, etc), they wouldn't gain any allies (a little too rape-and-pillage-happy for the Westerosi lords to back them), their steppe tactics would basically only work in the Reach, and they'd be slaughtered like pigs if it came to open combat, due to the extreme disadvantage they're at because they refuse to wear any heavier armour than horsehide vests. And that's assuming they got across the Narrow Sea at all, given their superstition about salt water, the fact that they need to transport all their horses (meaning fewer men per ship), and the various Westerosi fleets that would give them a hard time even getting ashore. Their tendency to descend to infighting merely hours after their khals die doesn't really help their cause either.



King Robert feared an invasion because Viserys would be leading it, and many lords would back a Targaryen if they perceived his chances of winning to be good. The Dothraki themselves wouldn't be a threat alone, the true danger would be the Westerosi lords still loyal to the Targaryens.


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We just had a lengthy discussion on what would happen if the Dothraki invaded Westeros. Consensus: They'd never manage to breach a choke point (the fords in the Riverlands, the Bloody Gate, Moat Cailin, etc), they wouldn't gain any allies (a little too rape-and-pillage-happy for the Westerosi lords to back them), their steppe tactics would basically only work in the Reach, and they'd be slaughtered like pigs if it came to open combat, due to the extreme disadvantage they're at because they refuse to wear any heavier armour than horsehide vests. And that's assuming they got across the Narrow Sea at all, given their superstition about salt water, the fact that they need to transport all their horses (meaning fewer men per ship), and the various Westerosi fleets that would give them a hard time even getting ashore. Their tendency to descend to infighting merely hours after their khals die doesn't really help their cause either.

King Robert feared an invasion because Viserys would be leading it, and many lords would back a Targaryen if they perceived his chances of winning to be good. The Dothraki themselves wouldn't be a threat alone, the true danger would be the Westerosi lords still loyal to the Targaryens.

But they will have Dany and her dragons and the realm is much much weaker. If Aegon can get a foothold, why not Dothraki with dragons?

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How similar would you say they are? 37%? 56%? Let me know so we can move on.

They are as similar as the Germanic tribes are to the original Valyrians. You know master race and such things. Now you can move on.

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