Ygritte Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 WHAT?!?!?! MADNESS!!!!!! (there is now 6 inches of snow on the ground. I may cry) There could be kings hidden under this snow for all I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It may be, but there´s just two books left and a massive war to fight with undead beings and dragons, he better brood quick :) i don´t think it´s going to take alot of his time, it wasn´t his fault nor Ned´s, it was circumstance I didn't say it would take an entire book to get through...but he isn't going to be like "oh, okay". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I didn't say it would take an entire book to get through...but he isn't going to be like "oh, okay". No, not like that, but at least let it flow... The Jon i like to read is the one who takes charge of the North´s protection, the one who would have looked to R+L=J as a circumstance in wich he would do the same as Ned, don´t stress on that too much, and create his own and better legacy, that´s it... but that´s me, i know i´m in the minority and i comprehend that people want to see a detailed reaction to r+l=j... Jon is my second favourite character (behind Robert, yeah strange i know), and i guess i was expecting the reaction Robert had after watching his parents die... he didn´t brood much, but then again, two different guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 No, not like that, but at least let it flow... The Jon i like to read is the one who takes charge of the North´s protection, the one who would have looked to R+L=J as a circumstance in wich he would do the same as Ned, don´t stress on that too much, and create his own and better legacy, that´s it... but that´s me, i know i´m in the minority and i comprehend that people want to see a detailed reaction to r+l=j... Jon is my second favourite character (behind Robert, yeah strange i know), and i guess i was expecting the reaction Robert had after watching his parents die... he didn´t brood much, but then again, two different guys... Yeah, I don't think Jon is anything like that- I'm honestly shocked that you would describe Jon that way, tbh. He is EXTREMELY broody...I mean, almost every character with which he interacts describes him as 'sullen' or 'withdrawn'. How is that NOT 'broody'? The entire book he stresses everything...he constantly questions himself and his decisions. He knows what needs to be done, and does what he needs to do, but worries about whether he made the right call. I could cite various examples of Jon's insecurity all throughout the text, but there's no reason to. Jon needs to struggle over this...it would be anticlimactic and out of character if he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yeah, I don't think Jon is anything like that- I'm honestly shocked that you would describe Jon that way, tbh. He is EXTREMELY broody...I mean, almost every character with which he interacts describes him as 'sullen' or 'withdrawn'. How is that NOT 'broody'? The entire book he stresses everything...he constantly questions himself and his decisions. He knows what needs to be done, and does what he needs to do, but worries about whether he made the right call. I could cite various examples of Jon's insecurity all throughout the text, but there's no reason to. Jon needs to struggle over this...it would be anticlimactic and out of character if he didn't. I´m saying what i like Jon to become, he´s still young, you´re right he stresses alot but wich young guy in his position wouldn´t? Robb is not like Jon in many ways but he sure stressed alot in his decisions, Sam the same thing... I don´t want Jon to be like Robert in his "screw the problems i´m done", but i also want him to start building his legacy, and in my opinion you cannot build forward looking back too much... but i get you´re point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I´m saying what i like Jon to become, he´s still young, you´re right he stresses alot but wich young guy in his position wouldn´t? Robb is not like Jon in many ways but he sure stressed alot in his decisions, Sam the same thing... I don´t want Jon to be like Robert in his "screw the problems i´m done", but i also want him to start building his legacy, and in my opinion you cannot build forward looking back too much... but i get you´re point... I have no doubt that he'll come to terms with who he is- he accepted his bastardy, his position at the Wall, his position as spy, his position as leader, then LC...but he still struggled with each and every one of them. That's just his personality. Finding out his parentage will be the same...he'll have to come to terms with: 1. The fact that he's not he who thought he was, 2. The fact that Ned had to risk everything to keep him safe, 3. The fact that the circumstance of his birth led to a war that killed much of his family, 4. And the fact that he will have a destiny that he never thought was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I have no doubt that he'll come to terms with who he is- he accepted his bastardy, his position at the Wall, his position as spy, his position as leader, then LC...but he still struggled with each and every one of them. That's just his personality. Finding out his parentage will be the same...he'll have to come to terms with: 1. The fact that he's not he who thought he was, 2. The fact that Ned had to risk everything to keep him safe, 3. The fact that the circumstance of his birth led to a war that killed much of his family, 4. And the fact that he will have a destiny that he never thought was possible. I get your views, we will see in the end i guess... Let me just clarify i don´t believe Jon will become king in the end, it´s not the best written finale to jon´s story in my view... I would like him to become one of the greatest leaders of the North in recorded history, be it the greatest LC of the NW or even Lord Paramount, but i just don´t see the connection South of the Neck (even with r+l=j)... Seeing Jon in KL on the IT gives me a meeeeh feeling, but to each his own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I get your views, we will see in the end i guess... Let me just clarify i don´t believe Jon will become king in the end, it´s not the best written finale to jon´s story in my view... I would like him to become one of the greatest leaders of the North in recorded history, be it the greatest LC of the NW or even Lord Paramount, but i just don´t see the connection South of the Neck (even with r+l=j)... Seeing Jon in KL on the IT gives me a meeeeh feeling, but to each his own... Nothing I said had anything at all to do with Jon becoming king. I never even mentioned it. It was all focused on his possible reaction to the news of his true parentage. I said that it's possible he is the rightful heir to the Targaryen throne, but that doesn't mean he will BE king. I meant it as in he WAS considered king by the three KG guarding the ToJ when Ned rode up...and that the man that Ned considered the 'best KG who ever lived' was killed defending Jon when he was an infant. Yet another thing he will have to come to terms with when he finds out. So yeah, nothing I said had anything to do with Jon becoming king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Nothing I said had anything at all to do with Jon becoming king. I never even mentioned it. It was all focused on his possible reaction to the news of his true parentage. I said that it's possible he is the rightful heir to the Targaryen throne, but that doesn't mean he will BE king. I meant it as in he WAS considered king by the three KG guarding the ToJ when Ned rode up...and that the man that Ned considered the 'best KG who ever lived' was killed defending Jon when he was an infant. Yet another thing he will have to come to terms with when he finds out. So yeah, nothing I said had anything to do with Jon becoming king. Don´t get me wrong, i understood your points, i was just clarifying my belief on Jon´s ultimate fate, it helps the discussion :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 To me R+L=J is fun on a mistery-solving angle (and it´s what makes more sense to me at this time)... because, personally i think Jon is not going to think on this, Luke Skywalker style... it´s not going to rock his world, his father will be Ned beginning to end... he never knew Rhaegar or Lyanna and he never will... you can´t be attached to people you never seen or interacted with... I semi-agree. I think it will, as sj4iy says, shake him up. I just suspect that he'll eventually decide that it changes nothing, and it will if anything reinforce his feeling of Ned as his true father. Jon struggles with his bastardy as being something that sets him apart, and continually gets in the way of his personal sense of Stark-ness. He thinks of himself as Lord of Winterfell, and then feels guilty about it. Targaryens are distant to him, Starks important. He will be more interested in being Lyanna's son than Rhaegar's, and if they did indeed get married, the biggest piece of news to him will be not being a bastard after all. I suspect he'll be very resentful towards Ned at first for the lies, but when he has time to understand the situation he'll love and respect Ned all the more for the sacrifices he made for him, and feel all the more Stark for it. If Jon ends up on the throne of the 7k, I would expect it to be because of his Stark rather than Targaryen inheritance -- if not in the minds of those accepting him as king, then in his own mind. Leaving the wall and the North to become the new Targ king has nothing to do with Jon's journey thus far. On the other hand if the North falls (which I consider a distinct possibility) I could easily see him taking advantage of his Targ heritage to be able to claim the throne and lead his people south of the Neck, just as Mance lead his south of the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (there is now 6 inches of snow on the ground. I may cry) 6 inches of Jon Snow on the ground? Did he meet up with Ramsay then? (SORRY! SORRY! SORRY!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Don´t get me wrong, i understood your points, i was just clarifying my belief on Jon´s ultimate fate, it helps the discussion :) I don't really see how it pertains to this particular discussion...Jon becoming king (if he did) would happen long after he finds out about his parents...so it would have no effect on him at that point. I think that's a completely different discussion. As to Kingmonkey's point about Jon accepting his role...I completely agree. But my point was that it won't be immediate...it will take time. He won't just be like "Eh, I never knew those people" and get over it- that's not that type of person Jon is. I think we will see him stripped down to his core before he builds himself back up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I don't really see how it pertains to this particular discussion. Why not? Cause it differs from your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Why not? Cause it differs from your opinion? LMAO, jesus. It doesn't pertain to this because JON WON'T BE KING WHEN HE DISCOVERS WHO HE IS. Whatever happens to him AFTER THAT, whether he becomes king or stays LC of the NW or just dies doesn't impact HOW HE DEALS WITH THE NEWS. Like I already said in my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 There could be kings hidden under this snow for all I know. That sounds like a good excuse to go do the necessary shoveling! "I am saving THE KING" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I don't really see how it pertains to this particular discussion...Jon becoming king (if he did) would happen long after he finds out about his parents...so it would have no effect on him at that point. I think that's a completely different discussion.As to Kingmonkey's point about Jon accepting his role...I completely agree. But my point was that it won't be immediate...it will take time. He won't just be like "Eh, I never knew those people" and get over it- that's not that type of person Jon is. I think we will see him stripped down to his core before he builds himself back up again.It helps the discussion on the fact that if we got to the throne angle you would know my take already, just that... in the sense that the more we know of our positions on Jon´s eventual fate paths the faster we would come to a conclusion... I´m open to know more about the character, Jon is one of my favourites in the story but i sure know less than the majority on this forum about him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It helps the discussion on the fact that if we got to the throne angle you would know my take already, just that... in the sense that the more we know of our positions on Jon´s eventual fate paths the faster we would come to a conclusion... I´m open to know more about the character, Jon is one of my favourites in the story but i sure know less than the majority on this forum about him... His eventual fate and how he deals with it is separate, imo. It will have no impact on how he deals with learning of his real parentage. He would never seek the throne out...nor would he wish to even if he did learn he was the legitimate heir to the throne. He cares about saving the realm from the Others, not about going on a power trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 LMAO, jesus.It doesn't pertain to this because JON WON'T BE KING WHEN HE DISCOVERS WHO HE IS. Whatever happens to him AFTER THAT, whether he becomes king or stays LC of the NW or just dies doesn't impact HOW HE DEALS WITH THE NEWS.Like I already said in my previous post. Jon won't be king whether or not he becomes king? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 His eventual fate and how he deals with it is separate, imo. It will have no impact on how he deals with learning of his real parentage. He would never seek the throne out...nor would he wish to even if he did learn he was the legitimate heir to the throne. He cares about saving the realm from the Others, not about going on a power trip. We agree that Jon doesn´t care about power nor will he, but young Robert never wanted power either, and i don´t wish Jon the same fate as Robert´s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Jon won't be king whether or not he becomes king? How about you read the entire discussion before jumping in and accusing me of saying things I never said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.