R+L=J v.134

[BearQueen87]

Lyanna's "gore" could well be at least a partial metaphor for the war that followed her abduction/elopement/whatever with Rhaegar. Also notice that she's wearing a white dress. I don't know about the rest of you, but that makes me think of a wedding dress. And then you have the crown of roses, which is connected to Rhaegar and Harrenhal. Decent bit of info in that vision.

ETA: Also, "spattered with gore" is a normal phrase in real life. One I've heard before. I can't say the same of "bed of blood/bloody bed." Is there anyone here who has?

Not in normal everyday speak, I don't think so, especially bed of blood which has a certain "old time" feeling to it. "Messy bed" is more 21st century-ish, I suppose, but that doesn't strictly speak to childbirth the same way that bed of blood does in GRRMworld.

[J. Stargaryen]

I don't know if WP is lying here or not, but I recall the time she claimed Rhaegar had nothing to do with the blue roses. When I pointed out the crowning at HH, she edited her post but then added an ETA claiming she edited it for spelling or grammar or something like that. Then she blocked me after I pointed out her dishonest behavior. Lulz.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Lyanna's "gore" could well be at least a partial metaphor for the war that followed her abduction/elopement/whatever with Rhaegar. Also notice that she's wearing a white dress. I don't know about the rest of you, but that makes me think of a wedding dress. And then you have the crown of roses, which is connected to Rhaegar and Harrenhal. Decent bit of info in that vision.

White robe and crown of roses has some Jesus vibes to me: on its own way, that image is gory (he's bleeding by the thorns). I'm not saying Lyanna resurrected but... someone kinda will.

Also, that feast would be like the Last Supper, except they all are dead. Theon is the Judas. Judas died the first of the 12 apostles and Jesus. Here, Theon is the last one alive.

[J. Stargaryen]

White robe and crown of roses has some Jesus vibes to me: on its own way, that image is gory (he's bleeding by the thorns). I'm not saying Lyanna resurrected but... someone kinda will.

Also, that feast would be like the Last Supper, except they all are dead. Theon is the Judas. Judas died the first of the 12 apostles and Jesus. Here, Theon is the last one alive.

Agreed. I also mentioned that in my blue rose thread. Crown of roses/crown of thorns kind of suggests itself. Lots of death and resurrection stuff around Lyanna/Jon. The bull and bat symbolism at the ToJ, for example. Both animals heavily symbolic of those concepts.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Agreed. I also mentioned that in my blue rose thread. Crown of roses/crown of thorns kind of suggests itself. Lots of death and resurrection stuff around Lyanna/Jon. The bull and bat symbolism at the ToJ, for example. Both animals heavily symbolic of those concepts.

I like bulls :)

But seriously, when Jesus was born, according to Christian myths, a bull was present among the animals. The bull was meant to warm the baby with his breath. Then, Arthur would be the Star. And, his "real" dad wasn't there (well, he was, he's everywhere... but not physically... ok, my religion is odd), only Joseph, the man who eventually raised him and died before Jesus started his mission. Joseph was (allegedly) a carpenter who, also according to the myths, taught Jesus his craft and this prepared him for his mission (not going in details about that) without knowing what exactly that would be. Ned not only raised Jon but also taught him how to be a "Stark", which will eventually help him to make the decisions he has made (like offing Slynt) despite Ned never expect Jon to be known as Rhaegar's son.

[J. Stargaryen]

I like bulls :)

But seriously, when Jesus was born, according to Christian myths, a bull was present among the animals. The bull was meant to warm the baby with his breath. Then, Arthur would be the Star. And, his "real" dad wasn't there (well, he was, he's everywhere... but not physically... ok, my religion is odd), only Joseph, the man who eventually raised him and died before Jesus started his mission. Joseph was (allegedly) a carpenter who, also according to the myths, taught Jesus his craft and this prepared him for his mission (not going in details about that) without knowing what exactly that would be. Ned not only raised Jon but also taught him how to be a "Stark", which will eventually help him to make the decisions he has made (like offing Slynt) despite Ned never expect Jon to be known as Rhaegar's son.

Hmm, that's interesting. But what about the bats, man? I don't know if you read this post of mine from a few days ago, but apparently bats also symbolize things like motherhood and the sacred womb. Hmm, I wonder how that could apply to the ToJ? :D

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Hmm, that's interesting. But what about the bats, man? I don't know if you read this post of mine from a few days ago, but apparently bats also symbolize things like motherhood and the sacred womb. Hmm, I wonder how that could apply to the ToJ? :D

How funny considering that I've heard a couple of times said that the lack of sex gives you bats "down there" or something like that. Heh...

But... back to the bulls and male virility, I read somewhere that some marriage beds (in celtic culture, I think) were decorated with the bull horns for fertility purposes. I'm not suggesting that Hightower was a voyeurist but... he wasn't there when Jon was conceived (there in the ToJ, not the place of conception(I hope)). Also, while Hightower's personal symbol was the bull, that's not the sigil of his house, but a hight tower (a watch tower, actually).

So, a bull, a sword, a tower, a literal tower (and quite a joyful one) and a bat, all symbolising virility and fertility... no wonder Rhaegar's plans for remove Aerys were left to oblivion... :dunno:

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I should probably clarify: I'm not saying it's an either or situation here. Lyanna very well could have given birth causing the bloody bed, but the spattered with gore part could indicate that she also fought in a battle.

Had she not just "battled" to give birth? ;)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Had she not just "battled" to give birth? ;)

Maybe she battled the KG...

"But, my lady... let us take you to a safer pla--"

"SHUT UUUUUUUP!!!" *stabs Arthur with Dawn*

Their knees didn't bend so easily... because Lyanna kicked their asses.

[J. Stargaryen]

How funny considering that I've heard a couple of times said that the lack of sex gives you bats "down there" or something like that. Heh...

But... back to the bulls and male virility, I read somewhere that some marriage beds (in celtic culture, I think) were decorated with the bull horns for fertility purposes. I'm not suggesting that Hightower was a voyeurist but... he wasn't there when Jon was conceived (there in the ToJ, not the place of conception(I hope)). Also, while Hightower's personal symbol was the bull, that's not the sigil of his house, but a hight tower (a watch tower, actually).

So, a bull, a sword, a tower, a literal tower (and quite a joyful one) and a bat, all symbolising virility and fertility... no wonder Rhaegar's plans for remove Aerys were left to oblivion... :dunno:

Mothballs maybe? Not sure.

I didn't give much thought to the sigil of Hightower's House, mostly due to the white and black dichotomy of his bull and Whent's bat. We see black and white in tandem recurring in the books. The backgrounds of the Targaryen and Stark sigils, for example. Even the HoBaW. (There's something that can be found here that includes white and black, though it's a bit more speculative.) And the thing about white and black is that they are opposites, like ice and fire. So I think that's probably significant. Or at least it could be.

Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips. The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder. Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. Across his white-enameled helm, the black bat of his House spread its wings. Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. - AGoT, Eddard X (ToJ)

[markg171]

I'm supporting this. "Gore" is actually used 8 times in the novels, and is associated with battle, death, wounds, baby Aegon's smashed head.. and Lyanna.

Lyanna dying from a wound in battle rather than childbirth actually reconciles a bunch of things

- the 3 KG were found outside the tower. This is generally how people guarding a prisoner are positioned (Val at Castle Black, Catelyn in Riverrun)

- that the KG chose to fight Ned and his men outside of the tower, instead of trying to defend themselves from inside the tower. This is odd as Jaime notes that Arthur was the kind of commander who always made sure to defend his camps, no matter how safe they seemingly were. Why did he then choose to abandon the defensive advantage of the tower? Especially considering Ned and his men were on horseback, while the KG were on foot. Meeting them in front of the tower doesn't make sense unless your goal is to keep something inside that tower, and not trying to keep people from getting into the tower. Because placing yourself out in the open just means that Ned and his men can ride you down

- that Lyanna is never stated to have been found in a bed of blood, but only died in this bed.

- That Ned hears Lyanna scream during the fight, but when she is dying in her bed she's too weak to barely talk. What changed?

- That Ned compares Brandon and Lyanna's deaths. Brandon died trying to save Rickard, so who did Lyanna die trying to save?

- that Ned says Lyanna would have wielded a sword if she'd been allowed and his decision to ultimately let Arya learn to use one properly (as if Lyanna ultimately did not know how to properly wield one and thus died from that)

- Theon's reference to her being spattered with gore when that's only used to denote battle

There's a bunch more as this is just off the top of my head, but her dying from a wound makes a lot of sense of a bunch of other things in the novels. She still could have given birth as the two don't have to be separate things, but I think her death was caused by battle rather than childbirth.

Theon has experience with battle, but none of the bloody bed. He describes what he sees in terms he understands, nothing more, nothing less.

The prophet/visionary/witness is always an influence on the final material that comes out to us, even if the actual vision/whatever they 'saw' is completely independent of them.

Well let's take a look at some of these deaths then

King Robert sat with his guts spilling out on the table from the great gash in his belly, and Lord Eddard was headless beside him. Corpses lined the benches below, grey-brown flesh sloughing off their bones as they raised their cups to toast, worms crawling in and out of the holes that were their eyes. He knew them, every one; Jory Cassel and Fat Tom, Porther and Cayn and Hullen the master of horse, and all the others who had ridden south to King’s Landing never to return. Mikken and Chayle sat together, one dripping blood and the other water. Benfred Tallhart and his Wild Hares filled most of a table. The miller’s wife was there as well, and Farlen, even the wildling Theon had killed in the wolfswood the day he had saved Bran’s life.

But there were others with faces he had never known in life, faces he had seen only in stone. The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered with gore could only be Lyanna. Her brother Brandon stood beside her, and their father Lord Rickard just behind. Along the walls figures halfseen moved through the shadows, pale shades with long grim faces. The sight of them sent fear shivering through Theon sharp as a knife. And then the tall doors opened with a crash, and a freezing gale blew down the hall, and Robb came walking out of the night. Grey Wind stalked beside, eyes burning, and man and wolf alike bled from half a hundred savage wounds.

It's interesting to note that Theon sees something for Lyanna, but nothing for Rickard or Brandon. Why point out that Lyanna is spattered with gore, but not that Rickard should be burnt and Brandon with a bruised neck. Well of the three, she's the only who we don't know the exact cause of death of. We know she had a fever at the end, but not what caused the fever or if the fever killed her. Which is interesting because Robert is depicted as having his guts spilled, but he didn't actually die from that. He died from the wound mortifying. So if Lyanna is depicted as being spattered with gore, but died with a fever, then the spattered gore is the thing that caused the fever and her death.

There are two different things going on here. First the description of the "bed of blood" Lyanna dies in could be a phrase Martin uses to hint of childbirth, and second Theon's description of Lyanna in his dream/vision in which he uses the word "gore." Either could be consistent with childbirth death or death from battle inflicted wounds. My only problem with your point is that the use of the word "gore" gives us no indication one way or the other. I think your first post points that this use of "gore" somehow does point to battle wounds as the answer, and that is plainly wrong. Gore is consistent with either.

As to the first question of whether or not "bed of blood" is a hint left by the author, I think that is best answered in the context of not only the use of "bloody bed" to mean childbirth, but also by the myriad of other clues left that point to Lyanna having a child. Things like the many clues that point to a romantic relationship between Rhaegar and Lyanna, the Bael the Bard tale by Ygritte, the timing of when Jon shows up, and what the rumors are of his origins in different places, Lyanna's fever etc. etc. combine with the use of the phrase "bed of blood" to lead us in the direction of thinking Lyanna dies of complications of childbirth.

Hey, corbon! Great to see you post again in this thread. If I knew you were hanging out in the heretic threads I might have spent more time reading them. Always good to read your posts.

Well as WeaselPie pointed out, the word gore is only used a couple of times throughout the novels

AGOT

- Never used

ACOK

The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered with gore could only be Lyanna.

Every bit of Ser Balon was spattered with gore and smudged by smoke.

ASOS

It was Jojen who fed the sticks to the fire and blew on them until the flames leapt up crackling. Then there was light, and Bran saw the pale thin-faced girl by the lip of the well, all bundled up in furs and skins beneath an enormous black cloak, trying to shush the screaming baby in her arms. The thing on the floor was pushing an arm through the net to reach his knife, but the loops wouldn’t let him. He wasn’t any monster beast, or even Mad Axe drenched in gore; only a big fat man dressed up in black wool, black fur, black leather, and black mail. “He’s a black brother,” said Bran. “Meera, he’s from the Night’s Watch.”

The Mountain whirled. Helm, shield, sword, surcoat; he was spattered with gore from head to heels. “You talk too much,” he grumbled. “You make my head hurt.”

AFFC

She heard Hibald mount the stairs, and sometime later the knights as well. “... I never knew his name,” Ser Creighton was saying as he went by, “but upon his shield he bore a blood-red chicken, and his blade was dripping gore...” His voice faded, and somewhere up above, a door opened and closed.

“On Old Wyk,” confirmed Lord Rodrik. “Though I pray it is not bloody. I have been consulting Haereg’s History of the Ironborn. When last the salt kings and the rock kings met in kingsmoot, Urron of Orkmont let his axemen loose among them, and Nagga’s ribs turned red with gore. House Greyiron ruled unchosen for a thousand years from that dark day, until the Andals came.”

When he turned to find the next victim for his axe, he spied the other captain across the deck. His white surcoat was spotted with blood and gore, but Victarion could make out the arms upon his breast, the white rose within its red escutcheon. The man bore the same device upon his shield, on a white field with a red embattled border. “You!” the iron captain called across the carnage. “You of the rose! Be you the lord of Southshield?”

She wanted to see if it would be as easy with a woman as it had always been with Robert. Ten thousand of your children perished in my palm, Your Grace, she thought, slipping a third finger into Myr. Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all those pale sticky princes. You claimed your rights, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs. Taena gave a shudder. She gasped some words in a foreign tongue, then shuddered again and arched her back and screamed. She sounds as if she is being gored, the queen thought. For a moment she let herself imagine that her fingers were a bore’s tusks, ripping the Myrish woman apart from groin to throat.

ADWD

“A feigned boy is what he has,” said Randyll Tarly. “That may be. Or not.” Kevan Lannister had been here, in this very hall when Tywin had laid the bodies of Prince Rhaegar’s children at the foot of the Iron Throne, wrapped up in crimson cloaks. The girl had been recognizably the Princess Rhaenys, but the boy … a faceless horror of bone and brain and gore, a few hanks of fair hair. None of us looked long. Tywin said that it was Prince Aegon, and we took him at his word. “We have these tales coming from the east as well. A second Targaryen, and one whose blood no man can question. Daenerys Stormborn.”

Every single instance of the word gore in the novels is used to describe battle or wounds from battle. It's consistently used for that purpose... and then we have Lyanna being spattered in gore. So for Lyanna to be spattered in gore, she needs to have been in battle as gore is only used to denote battle in the books. It's not a term that is used for any other purpose.

[J. Stargaryen]

Not in normal everyday speak, I don't think so, especially bed of blood which has a certain "old time" feeling to it. "Messy bed" is more 21st century-ish, I suppose, but that doesn't strictly speak to childbirth the same way that bed of blood does in GRRMworld.

I just noticed this now. But yeah, agreed.

<snip>

Every single instance of the word gore in the novels is used to describe battle or wounds from battle. It's consistently used for that purpose... and then we have Lyanna being spattered in gore. So for Lyanna to be spattered in gore, she needs to have been in battle as gore is only used to denote battle in the books. It's not a term that is used for any other purpose.

No, it doesn't. Because, as SFDanny pointed out, it's just a normal word in our language. "Bed of blood/bloody bed" are uncommon and possibly even invented by GRRM specifically for ASoIaF, hence the need for internal consistency within the books. You're comparing apples and oranges.

[Kingmonkey]

Every single instance of the word gore in the novels is used to describe battle or wounds from battle. It's consistently used for that purpose... and then we have Lyanna being spattered in gore. So for Lyanna to be spattered in gore, she needs to have been in battle as gore is only used to denote battle in the books. It's not a term that is used for any other purpose.

What percentage of descriptions of blood from battles don't use the word gore?

What percentage of descriptions of blood from childbirth don't use the word gore?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Maybe she battled the KG...

"But, my lady... let us take you to a safer pla--"

"SHUT UUUUUUUP!!!" *stabs Arthur with Dawn*

Their knees didn't bend so easily... because Lyanna kicked their asses.

I meant more in the sense that childbirth itself is a woman's battle, but ok [emoji14]

But also, it could be simple as was said earlier. It could symbolize the war that came to be.. I mean, Theon sees her in a white gown. If hat indeed symbolizes/hints that she got married, did she actually wear that for a full year until she died? I doubt it. So the gore might also be about earlier events, not about her actual death.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I meant more in the sense that childbirth itself is a woman's battle, but ok [emoji14]

But also, it could be simple as was said earlier. It could symbolize the war that came to be.. I mean, Theon sees her in a white gown. If hat indeed symbolizes/hints that she got married, did she actually wear that for a full year until she died? I doubt it. So the gore might also be about earlier events, not about her actual death.

If it had been only blood and a white dress, that would have meant simply loss of virginity and/or sex. Gore is more violent: childbirth is violent and messy. Nevertheless, if this means nothing to Theon, is because he has probably also heard stories about Lyanna being taken and probably raped (Bran has), hence, the symbolism of the virgin being spoiled that is in fact the mother and a tragic birth, so I guess it could mean either way. Although definitely means sex, imo, either violent sex (rape) or the consequence of it (childbirth).

ETA: I don't mean Lyanna was raped. I mean the author is implying that it could have meant THAT for Theon, who didn't know what we know.

[markg171]

I just noticed this now. But yeah, agreed.

No, it doesn't. Because, as SFDanny pointed out, it's just a normal word in our language. "Bed of blood/bloody bed" are uncommon and possibly even invented by GRRM specifically for ASoIaF, hence the need for internal consistency within the books. You're comparing apples and oranges.

But that's exactly the point. It is a normal word. And yet in the hundreds of thousands of words across the 5 ASOIAF novels, and even in the 3 Dunk and Egg novellas, GRRM has only used the word 9 times. And once was to describe Lyanna. That would be an extremely odd coincidence that GRRM choose to use the word "gore" in describing Lyanna, when he's only used the word sparingly before.

[corbon]

Well as WeaselPie pointed out, the word gore is only used a couple of times throughout the novels

...

Every single instance of the word gore in the novels is used to describe battle or wounds from battle. It's consistently used for that purpose... and then we have Lyanna being spattered in gore. So for Lyanna to be spattered in gore, she needs to have been in battle as gore is only used to denote battle in the books. It's not a term that is used for any other purpose.

Not a logical corollary.

The point remains, that Theon is the one giving the description here. He is familiar only with battle, not the bloody bed, so when he sees a bloody mess, he uses battle-type words to describe it.

That does not mean that it must be battle type imagery he is describing. Just that his only experience with such a scene is battle-related, so he uses battle related language to describe it. If Theon sees a woman in a blood soaked dress, he's going to think she's been brutally hacked with weapons, not delivered a baby. Hence he would use 'gore' to describe a sopping dress, even if it was only a 'battle' term (which is a very weak argument as it is, IMO).

Once again, the prophet/vision describer influences what we get of the prophecy/vision because it is their words, language, description of the imagery that we get, rather than the actual imagery.

[Ser Creighton]

Mothballs maybe? Not sure.

I didn't give much thought to the sigil of Hightower's House, mostly due to the white and black dichotomy of his bull and Whent's bat. We see black and white in tandem recurring in the books. The backgrounds of the Targaryen and Stark sigils, for example. Even the HoBaW. (There's something that can be found here that includes white and black, though it's a bit more speculative.) And the thing about white and black is that they are opposites, like ice and fire. So I think that's probably significant. Or at least it could be.

Oh White and Black are very important but the answer is right in front of your face. What's in the middle of those two? Dayne, not Lyanna, those 3 are 3 aspects that are part of one thing. So you get White and Black. You also get night and light between the two. The Hightower is a symbol of Light, and the Bat of course is symbolic of night or Darkness. It actually goes further, Battle Island the stones around the Hightower are those Black oily stones. I call them blood stones and of course Harrenhal is associated with House Whent. Do you know what wood was used to make the frames of Harrenhal? Weeirwood, so black oily stones and White Magical wood. Stone and wood and internal and external.

Now what does house Dayne have on it's Sigil, a falling Star generally related to sunset and the night, and of course Dawn. So between the two opposing themes you light or the sun or the Morning. Pick what you want Arthur is very symbolic of that stuff and of course the Kings Guard which were actually based off the Knight's watch with opposing Colors. The inverse occures again.

Question is why?

Well the hints seem to go back to the begining. Though I do not have a full Grasp of it yet. Consider the inverse of east and West, and north and south. Essos and Westeros. Magical creatures, Dragons in one and Others in the other. Asshai in one and the land of always winter in the other. One in the south east and one in the North west. Both are said to have hearts. Asshai worships light yet it is basked in shadow. The land of always winter has a wall of light. Asshai is a very dark place, and you have the Shadowbinders and lots of shadows. It has a river, the Ash and it is also Dark, and seems to create a toxic Miasma, it als oflows pretty past. No children in Asshai, also shadow babies, babies that are never actually born they come out as shadows. Hmmmm Neverborn. Lots of Magic there as well. And you have the heart of Darkness (I am guessing this is the Bloodstone) Now you go up river where the Ash comes howling through through a narrow cleft in the mountains. Towering cliffs so steep and close that the river is perpetually in shadow, save for a few moments at midday when the sun is at it's Zenith. And supposedly you have demons and dragons living in the cliffs. Though a Shadowbinder tells us there are only three dragons. Eventually you follow the river to the doors of Stygia, the corpse city (a city of corpses) I know someone else who has lots of corpses.

Now you remember back when Jon was warged into Ghost and he was looking at the Frostfangs. Well we know there is suppose to be a hidden valley. And as opposed to the Ash river you have the Milkwater, nice white name there for a river that is also said to be white. Of course between two of the mountains is a big shinny pretty glacier, I am guessing the heart of Winter is on the Other side of it. And of course you got Demons living there, I ce demons, and it's all white.

Now with Mel you find at one point her blood is black and smoking, same thing is said about Drogon. The Others of course are said to be water. Now Dragon bones are black and the Others bones are said to be white. In fact the Others are said to be very pale, white skin, white hair, white bones and blue eyes.

Now of course I suspect you get another inverse and that the valley the Others are from only sees the moon at it's zenith. It's a guess but I think it is a pretty good one. So you have these ice Demons who seem to favor the night, yet live near wall of light and you have Asshai where they worship light but live in perpetual darkness. Why would either of them do that? It's almost like they are in the wrong places. I'll get back to this in minute.

Now the Bloodstone is said ot be black and oily and fell from the sky, there is a story about Dragon eggs like that as well. And of course Blood and Blood magic seems like an obvious connection here. Now in reality Asshai and the Dragons are not the current threat, maybe once a long time ago in Essos. Piece of advice google Bloodstone and Forgoten Realms and you will one again see this story or something similar to it. Now what color is Dawn? It's white and looks like Milk glass. It also does not look like metal. Perhaps the star it was carved from is the other heart, the one the Others have. The heart of winter.

Also I would consider the story of the moons and the sun. There may have been two moons, there may have also been 3 people. Shit like that happens in the books, but if there was a second moon, I would suggest it was black and probably not gone. Now neither would of kissed the sun, it's to far away obviously, but they may have gotten too close to eachother.

So back to Westeros and Essos and colors, again we have this inverse. And this one I did not come up with MolaF showed it to me and she got it from Queen Alysanne I believe. But it is a great one. Shade of the evening trees The are black wood and Blue leaves and they have sap that can help you have prophetic visions. Oddely enough they grow in a very warm place with lots of sun. The direct inverse is the Weiwood trees, White wood and Red leaves and there you see both the Red and Blue inverse and the black and white inverse together. Yet when you drink the sap of either it helps you with visions, red sap and blue sap. The cup of ice and the cup of fire. Of course Dany and Bran here.

Now you look at the Warlockss sort of symbolic of the Others and the undying and the Wights and the blue and darkeness and all that. But also those little rat fuckers. Now currently there are said to be 3 warlocks and they are with Euron and I do not need to explain the symbolism of his sigil and the inverse he has to Bloodraven to you. You also have 1 and 3 at an inverse here as well. Now Warlocks were all about blue, and I assume so are those little rat guys they have, and of course Bloodraven is all about fire, shade tree, and weirwood, Children who funny enough are very good at working with fire and dragonglass. You put a weirwood on a fire and that shit blazes, I think we saw that with Mel.

Now I am not sure but I believe in the case of the weirwood and Jon points this out, that you can actually feel the power of one. Though I don't think all time, it needs to be the right situation or something needs to be done to them, maybe a blood sacrifice, tends to be a big source of magic with humans. Anyway I suspect that if you know what you are doing, the Weirwoods are an actual deterent for the Wights. It's why the Black gate which is white is made from it, and why the first men took up worshiping them, and why they also put them within their walls.

Funny thing about blue plants they seem to like the heat. Blue roses don't appear to grow wild or naturally in the north, they grow in the glass gardens which are hot and heated by the hot sprinds which are heated buy the furnace of the world. Now maybe they can grow in the wild I have not seen one in the books like that but, it seems like the Shade trees, heat is ok with them. In fact they may be from Essos, which may have been a clue from the show.

Now those two countries Essos and Westeros have a clear inverse, yet something clearly seems out of sorts with the light and the shadows, with fire and ice. Red Priests Raise the dead, the Others raise the dead, shadow babies, that scene from the show with the Others and Babies. A Knight King and a Bloodstone Emperor.

Anyway I know you look at colors, by the way Lyannas Dress of white and her blue Roses, inverse of Rhaegars Black and Red, "cough" unity of opposition in families and colors. Black and White aside from Yin and Yang are associated with weddings. You will also be seeing a lot of black and white between Jon and Dany this year on the show. Take it how you want, just that this is what the show is doing, you also get a wedding not that wedding but a wedding. I think, pretty sure you are getting a wedding.

I am not exactly sure what he is doing with the colors in the books but they seem like clues. I don't think the colors make anything happen just clues about stuff. Anyway there is some stuff in there that if you didn't know could probably use with some of the color work you do.

ETA: White and black make grey and red and blue makes purple. First men eyes and Targaryen eyes.

And with the colors of the trident Red, Green and Blue. When mix blue light, with a red light and green light you get a white light. When mix them ass liquid you get black.

[Ygrain]

Had she not just "battled" to give birth? ;)

I don't have the books on hand now but Randyl Tarly says that women's battles are waged in birthing bed. So, yes, the connection between birthing and battle is established withing the series.

Outside the series, the connection exists, as well - IIRC, in old Germanic tradition, a woman who died in childbirth was revered like a warrior who fell in battle.

[J. Stargaryen]

I don't have the books on hand now but Randyl Tarly says that women's battles are waged in birthing bed. So, yes, the connection between birthing and battle is established withing the series.

Outside the series, the connection exists, as well - IIRC, in old Germanic tradition, a woman who died in childbirth was revered like a warrior who fell in battle.

There's one from Aeron Greyjoy too.

“If the Drowned God wills it. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair.” The Crow’s Eye will fight, that is certain. No woman could defeat him, not even Asha; women were made to fight their battles in the birthing bed. - AFfC, The Prophet

Here's Tarly to Brienne.

“I came to fight,” she insisted. “To be a knight.”

“The gods made men to fight, and women to bear children,” said Randyll Tarly. “A woman’s war is in the birthing bed.” - AFfC, Brienne III

And then from earlier in Aeron's chapter, The Prophet, we get "beds of blood and pain."

Nine sons had been born from the loins of Quellon Greyjoy, but only four had lived to manhood. That was the way of this cold world, where men fished the sea and dug in the ground and died, whilst women brought forth short-lived children from beds of blood and pain.