Shattered Sea Trilogy II - Spoilers of "Half a King", "Half a World" & "Half a War"

[mormont]

It's pretty much made clear that Yarvi didn't want Brand dead. Not much to discuss there, except that he was a fool if he didn't understand there was a risk.

 

As for the elf-weapons etc: much of that doesn't make immediate sense. The weapons should surely not be working at all after hundreds of years. Neither should the pills: even if you ascribe some sort of uncanny preservation to Strokosh, that's a problem.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

I had assumed that the elves had blown themselves sky high at a point more technologically advanced than where we are today.  Electricity is probably from solar batteries.  I assume that the bangle is some sort of apple watch type gizmo; also probably solar powered.  I also assume that his staff was a rifle.  I think that the "breaking of the Gods" it wasn't as long ago as people had thought it was (so certainly not thousands of years) - it certainly had to be a short enough time that the code to an arsenal could be passed down accurately and that all of the wires had not fallen down in the city (though I did find that the hardest part to believe - I would have expected that the first big gale would take that down).  I thought it was the outside of believable (so still possible) that the weapons, if stored in a clean stable room with minimal environmental exposure might still be pristine and work.  Also, would these people have the ability to produce iodine on their own?  That is, somewhere else in this world is there someone who could still produce iodine pills? 

[Rhom]

I remember discussion on the placement of the Shattered Seas and the Divine and the Denied being the Dvina and the Dneiper.

Has anyone tried to work out if there is a real world analogue to the fortress of Bail's Point?

[Consigliere]

Has anyone tried to work out if there is a real world analogue to the fortress of Bail's Point?

 

My guess would would be Hammershus.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

That doesn't make sense to me.  It needs to be a place with a modern building, I think.  I would have thought it's maybe Karlskrona?  Though that might be underwater, not sure.

[Rhom]

 
My guess would would be Hammershus.

MZBzie is correct, it has to be modern because the book specifically describes rebar in the walls.

:dunno:

If Joe thinks he's done with this world, maybe he can tell us where things are now.

[Corvinus85]

I assumed Bail's Point was a prison. What else could have smooth concrete walls and towers?

[Rhom]

I assumed Bail's Point was a prison. What else could have smooth concrete walls and towers?

Ahhhhh... Good point.

[SeanF]

I had assumed that the elves had blown themselves sky high at a point more technologically advanced than where we are today.  Electricity is probably from solar batteries.  I assume that the bangle is some sort of apple watch type gizmo; also probably solar powered.  I also assume that his staff was a rifle.  I think that the "breaking of the Gods" it wasn't as long ago as people had thought it was (so certainly not thousands of years) - it certainly had to be a short enough time that the code to an arsenal could be passed down accurately and that all of the wires had not fallen down in the city (though I did find that the hardest part to believe - I would have expected that the first big gale would take that down).  I thought it was the outside of believable (so still possible) that the weapons, if stored in a clean stable room with minimal environmental exposure might still be pristine and work.  Also, would these people have the ability to produce iodine on their own?  That is, somewhere else in this world is there someone who could still produce iodine pills?

Like you, I think the timespan between the downfall of the elves and the events of the series is shorter than the people believe. That said, surely the radiation would have dispersed within a few decades?

[unJon]

Like you, I think the timespan between the downfall of the elves and the events of the series is shorter than the people believe. That said, surely the radiation would have dispersed within a few decades?

Maybe the problem was the meltdown of one or more large nuclear reactors:

Radioactive materials produced in nuclear power plants decay more slowly than the by-products of nuclear bombs,3 so the devastation of nuclear power plants would considerably increase the area which would remain unsafe for human habitation after the war. For breeder reactors, reprocessing facilities, and near-ground radioactive waste-disposal sites, the picture is even grimmer: certain portions of the Commonwealth of Independent States, the eastern half of the continental U.S., the states of Washington and California, and considerable portions of Western Europe, could be contaminated for decades. Even centuries later, it might be advisable to check radioactivity levels before buying land in these regions.

http://www.is.wayne.edu/MNISSANI/PAGEPUB/CH2.html

[Consigliere]

I assumed Bail's Point was a prison. What else could have smooth concrete walls and towers?

 

I think you may be spot on with this.

 

 

Maybe the problem was the meltdown of one or more large nuclear reactors:

http://www.is.wayne.edu/MNISSANI/PAGEPUB/CH2.html

 

Thanks for this. I was wondering about the radiation as well. The radiation pills (I'm assuming potassium iodide tablets) still puzzles me though. Surely their shelf-life would be long expired?

 

Crackpot time: Maybe the 'elves' were not completely wiped out and a population still exists somewhere beyond the known world. Perhaps Skifr is an 'elf'. :dunno:

 

Side note: Anyone manage to figure out what type of weapon/gun Yarvi's staff is?

[Rhom]

I assumed that Yarvi had a long barreled rifle. Maybe a hunting rifle. :dunno:

I also wondered if Skifr didn't have a supply of her magic beans somewhere or a way to make more. She only had five, but didn't seem distressed that she was entirely out.

[mormont]

Bail's Point as a prison: so, was the harbour not part of the original design? I kind of thought that it was, but would a prison have an integral dock?

 

The anti-rad pills: it would be odd, if the concept of making pills was not unknown, that Koll would describe them as 'beans'. Saying that, it's possible that this is some sort of secret knowledge, unfamiliar even to the Ministry.

[Rhom]

Bail's Point as a prison: so, was the harbour not part of the original design? I kind of thought that it was, but would a prison have an integral dock?
 
The anti-rad pills: it would be odd, if the concept of making pills was not unknown, that Koll would describe them as 'beans'. Saying that, it's possible that this is some sort of secret knowledge, unfamiliar even to the Ministry.

Do we think sea levels have risen?

[Corvinus85]

Do we think sea levels have risen?

Based on the map we were given, I would say that the coast line of the lands around the Baltic changed quite a bit.

[SeanF]

Do we think sea levels have risen?

 

Yes.  Stockholm and Riga (Roystock) are connected to the mainland in real life.  Part of South West Finland seems to have vanished too.

[mormont]

Yeah, but to clarify, my point isn't about whether sea levels might have risen. It's about the physical layout of Bail's Point. Even if we say that maybe the harbour area was a lower level at some point (which, honestly, I doubt would be deep enough, but maybe it was dug out or dredged?) and the ramp is a later addition, there's a gap in the walls between those two towers - not a collapse like the gap where the 'man-made wall' is, as far as I can see, but a deliberate space in the walls.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

That's why I'm voting for Karlskrona because it is a naval base. Thought there might be an armory or something else modern and fortified there that could be Bails Point (I've never been, so don't know).  What militates against that is rising sea levels which make me think that you could be looking further inland.

 

I don't think it could be a nuclear reactor meltdown because the lights still work in Stockom, which, as I said above, suggests that a different power source used.  More likely to me is that the radiation has, in fact, dispersed, and that they only take the pills (beans) as a lingering cultural memory (and the pills are wholly useless) - and mormont that fits into not really knowing pills.  Alternatively, it's a different kind of bomb and it's still poisoned and the last laugh will be on Yarvi when he gets some kind of aggressive cancer and dies in horrible pain. 

[Rhom]

But some of the crew that didn't take the pills were already getting sick by the end of the book. So it's obviously still radioactive.

[Corvinus85]

That's why I'm voting for Karlskrona because it is a naval base. Thought there might be an armory or something else modern and fortified there that could be Bails Point (I've never been, so don't know).  What militates against that is rising sea levels which make me think that you could be looking further inland.

 

I don't think it could be a nuclear reactor meltdown because the lights still work in Stockom, which, as I said above, suggests that a different power source used.  More likely to me is that the radiation has, in fact, dispersed, and that they only take the pills (beans) as a lingering cultural memory (and the pills are wholly useless) - and mormont that fits into not really knowing pills.  Alternatively, it's a different kind of bomb and it's still poisoned and the last laugh will be on Yarvi when he gets some kind of aggressive cancer and dies in horrible pain. 

So Skifr got lucky then, considering how long she's been walking among those ruins and others like it?

 

Here is a view of Karlskrona, where the naval base is. Too much water in my opinion, and I'm not spotting any walls. And yes, I know I'm going too much into this, but I enjoy it.