Small Questions v. 10097

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Does some of the crown debt date back to Aerys's reign? Did Robert take on Aerys's debts?

(I know the whole "flowing coffers" line, but just because Aerys had liquidity does not mean he did not have appreciable debt.)

Not that is mentioned, I think... Ned's reaction to the empty coffers, and the debts that go along with it, suggest that during Aerys' reign, there was nothing wrong, money-wise, with the crown.

[foreign675]

How exactly originated the gossip that 'valyrian steel might harm the others'?

I seem to remember that was just an hypothesis of Jon Snow or Samwel Tarly.

Given that Valyrian steel could not possibly be already around by the time the WW first appeared,

this notion should be held as 'crackpot theory'?

I know that the sword of the Hero looks a lot like a word that potentially has some similarities with VS, but

afaik the characters within the story never make this link among the two things.

[SummerSphinx]

I know that after the Dance, all eligible Targaryen men inherit the throne before any women.

Are there any good threads that follow the women (and the descendants of the women) who got passed over? What if the dragon magic heavily follows female Targaryens, and the "males first" political system actually caused people with weak dragon blood to sit on the throne, while people with stronger dragon blood were passed over? In the beginning, the first "dreamer" was a woman. There were two Targ Queens, and only one king.

Is there any good way to trace what happened to female Targaryens who married into other families?

[Bluetiger]

How exactly originated the gossip that 'valyrian steel might harm the others'?

I seem to remember that was just an hypothesis of Jon Snow or Samwel Tarly.

Given that Valyrian steel could not possibly be already around by the time the WW first appeared,

this notion should be held as 'crackpot theory'?

I know that the sword of the Hero looks a lot like a word that potentially has some similarities with VS, but

afaik the characters within the story never make this link among the two things.

Good questions. I don't have books now and Wiki says nothing about it...

We know that it's effective against wights...

[aryagonnakill#2]

^VS is not effective against wights. Only fire kills wights, if you cut a wight in half, presumably it keeps moving just like a zombie.

The reason VS is considered effective against WW's is because Sam reads in a book that Dragonsteal is effective against WW's. They both assume Dragonsteal is Valyrian steal, and I see no reason to think otherwise. Valyrian steal is likely forged in dragon flame, calling steal forged in dragon flame dragonsteal makes perfect sense. We are also told that dragons use to exist all over the world, so although Valyria was not around there were presumably dragons available in westeros. There is also the even more practical matter of, if Valyrian steal is not effective against WW's, why the hell is it in the books?

Unless you can contradict those 2 points, then no it should not be labelled crackpot.

[foreign675]

^VS is not effective against wights. Only fire kills wights, if you cut a wight in half, presumably it keeps moving just like a zombie.

The reason VS is considered effective against WW's is because Sam reads in a book that Dragonsteal is effective against WW's. They both assume Dragonsteal is Valyrian steal, and I see no reason to think otherwise. Valyrian steal is likely forged in dragon flame, calling steal forged in dragon flame dragonsteal makes perfect sense. We are also told that dragons use to exist all over the world, so although Valyria was not around there were presumably dragons available in westeros. There is also the even more practical matter of, if Valyrian steal is not effective against WW's, why the hell is it in the books?

Unless you can contradict those 2 points, then no it should not be labelled crackpot.

I was just questioning. Thank you for your reply.

[Bluetiger]

^VS is not effective against wights. Only fire kills wights, if you cut a wight in half, presumably it keeps moving just like a zombie.

The reason VS is considered effective against WW's is because Sam reads in a book that Dragonsteal is effective against WW's. They both assume Dragonsteal is Valyrian steal, and I see no reason to think otherwise. Valyrian steal is likely forged in dragon flame, calling steal forged in dragon flame dragonsteal makes perfect sense. We are also told that dragons use to exist all over the world, so although Valyria was not around there were presumably dragons available in westeros. There is also the even more practical matter of, if Valyrian steal is not effective against WW's, why the hell is it in the books?

Unless you can contradict those 2 points, then no it should not be labelled crackpot.

I don't think that wights can move like skeletons from "The Children".

If there are no muscules and brain

no mammal can move. Unless there is some magical power that keeps bones together and controls them.

[aryagonnakill#2]

But when Summer eats wights he says that the flesh wriggles and the limbs move until it is digested in the stomach.

foreign675, sorry if my post came off aggressively, obviously I support that theory.

[RumHam]

^VS is not effective against wights. Only fire kills wights, if you cut a wight in half, presumably it keeps moving just like a zombie.

The reason VS is considered effective against WW's is because Sam reads in a book that Dragonsteal is effective against WW's. They both assume Dragonsteal is Valyrian steal, and I see no reason to think otherwise. Valyrian steal is likely forged in dragon flame, calling steal forged in dragon flame dragonsteal makes perfect sense. We are also told that dragons use to exist all over the world, so although Valyria was not around there were presumably dragons available in westeros. There is also the even more practical matter of, if Valyrian steal is not effective against WW's, why the hell is it in the books?

Unless you can contradict those 2 points, then no it should not be labelled crackpot.

To counter the usual argument of "they did not have steel back then" first we have Dawn which was somehow forged from meteor iron back then. Then we have the revelation from the worldbook that the Rhoynar did not invent steel, the Cymmeri did. Now it's possible the First Men fighting the War for the Dawn had access to some steel but could not make it, like the situation with Valyrian steel now. Some of that steel could have been forged in dragonflame. Or maybe forged normally and then tempered in Dragonflame when it's original user got roasted by a dragon. For the record I don't think Valyrian steel and Dragonsteel have to be exactly the same, the Valyrian stuff we know requires spells that might not have been part of making Dragonsteel.

Warriors, sorcerers, and scholars, they traced their descent to the hero king they called Huzhor Amai (the Amazing), born of the last of the Fisher Queens, who took to wife the daughters of the greatest lords and kings of the Gipps, the Cymmeri, and the Zoqora, binding all three peoples to his rule. His Zoqora wife drove his chariot, it is said, his Cymer wife made his armor (for her people were the first to work iron), and he wore about his shoulders a great cloak made from the pelt of a king of the Hairy Men.

So here we have an account of Azor Ahai having a wife who knew how to forge steel.

[HexMachina]

Not that is mentioned, I think... Ned's reaction to the empty coffers, and the debts that go along with it, suggest that during Aerys' reign, there was nothing wrong, money-wise, with the crown.

Well to be fair, Ned wouldnt know squat about the Crown's finances before Robert's reign. But I agree, we've no indication Aerys was in debt, and if he was it was certainly not a huge amount as Robert was in.

[foreign675]

But when Summer eats wights he says that the flesh wriggles and the limbs move until it is digested in the stomach.

foreign675, sorry if my post came off aggressively, obviously I support that theory.

nah, it's fine.. I have my share of fault as well, somehow I'm bad at posing neutral questions :-)

I appreciated your answer a lot

[Lost Melnibonean]

But when Summer eats wights he says that the flesh wriggles and the limbs move until it is digested in the stomach.

foreign675, sorry if my post came off aggressively, obviously I support that theory.

And didn't a hand keep coming after Jon or Bran?

[Ser Leftwich]

Well to be fair, Ned wouldnt know squat about the Crown's finances before Robert's reign. But I agree, we've no indication Aerys was in debt, and if he was it was certainly not a huge amount as Robert was in.

The World Book mentions some dispute that Aerys had with the Iron Bank. That he was going to "bring the Titan to its knees," or something like that.

[Bluetiger]

But when Summer eats wights he says that the flesh wriggles and the limbs move until it is digested in the stomach.

foreign675, sorry if my post came off aggressively, obviously I support that theory.

Flesh still has nerves and muscules. TV show skeletons don't have any flesh.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I know that after the Dance, all eligible Targaryen men inherit the throne before any women.

Are there any good threads that follow the women (and the descendants of the women) who got passed over? What if the dragon magic heavily follows female Targaryens, and the "males first" political system actually caused people with weak dragon blood to sit on the throne, while people with stronger dragon blood were passed over? In the beginning, the first "dreamer" was a woman. There were two Targ Queens, and only one king.

Is there any good way to trace what happened to female Targaryens who married into other families?

Well, Rhaena Targaryen had six daughters by Garmund Hightower, so there is a possibility some of these daughters lived to have children of their own.

Baela Targaryen married Alyn Velaryon and continued House Velaryon with him, supposedly, Alyssa Velaryon had Targaryen ancestry, and continued House Baratheon, bringing Targaryen blood into that line.

Elaena Targaryen gave House Plumm Targaryen blood, and House Penrose, though it is unknown whether Ronnel was from the main line. Daella and Rhae were married, but we don't know to whom... And House Tarth has Targaryen ancestry, quite recent as well (Daella and Rhae are obvious candidates), but we don't know who the girl was that married into the house. Rhaelle gave House Baratheon their second amount of Targaryen blood. And obviously, House Martell has Targaryen blood.

So yeah, there should still be some Targaryen ancestry somewhere.

The World Book mentions some dispute that Aerys had with the Iron Bank. That he was going to "bring the Titan to its knees," or something like that.

That was in 267 AC, and concerned money that Jaehaerys II had lent.. Tywin dealt with the matters by repaying the crown's debts with money from Casterly Rock (something he wasn't willing to do for Joffrey, btw).

[aryagonnakill#2]

Those skeletons don't exist in the books tho, in the books wights still have their flesh.

Edit: And to a different question, I believe the worldbook also says that Tywin paid the debt Aerys owed the Iron Bank.

[Bluetiger]

Those skeletons don't exist in the books tho, in the books wights still have their flesh.

Edit: And to a different question, I believe the worldbook also says that Tywin paid the debt Aerys owed the Iron Bank.

You are right. From Wiki :

"It was Tywin who settled the dispute with the Iron Bank of Braavos in 267 AC, as Tywin was shrewd enough not to make an enemy of the Iron Bank. He secretly paid the Bank back the loans owed to them by the Iron Throne with the gold of Casterly Rock."

I think that I should end posting for today. I post some rubbish and my brain isn't working ;) It's 22:45 where I live and I had a busy day.

Goodnight.

[RumHam]

You are right. From Wiki :

"It was Tywin who settled the dispute with the Iron Bank of Braavos in 267 AC, as Tywin was shrewd enough not to make an enemy of the Iron Bank. He secretly paid the Bank back the loans owed to them by the Iron Throne with the gold of Casterly Rock."

I think that I should end posting for today. I post some rubbish and my brain isn't working ;) It's 22:45 where I live and I had a busy day.

Goodnight.

It wasn't a secret, was it? That's not the impression I got. How and why would he even keep that secret from Aerys? I'm gonna remove that one word unless anyone objects.

Edit: the worldbook even mentions that it was "to the king's displeasure" so he knew.

[Bluetiger]

It wasn't a secret, was it? That's not the impression I got. How and why would he even keep that secret from Aerys. I'm gonna remove that one word unless anyone objects.

Isn't it in AWoIaF text?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Isn't it in AWoIaF text?

No.

It was Tywin Lannister who settled the crown's dispute with the Braavosi (though without "making the Titan kneel", to the king's displeasure), by repaying the monies lent to Jaehaerys II with gold from Casterly Rock, thereby taking the debts upon himself.