RumHam Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 When was Robert declared King during the rebellion? And who did so (as in who first said it)? Do we know? When did Robert proclaim his intention to take the throne? At the outset of the war, or was it a relatively late development? Robert proclaimed his intention to take the throne ... around the time of the Trident. Would not elaborate any further. Mentioned Robert's claim being stronger than Eddard Stark's and Jon Arryn's, the leaders of the two other great houses that spearheaded the revolution, due to blood ties to the Targaryen's. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1384 [Note: The following mail refers to information revealed in this report.] Actually he said around the time of the Trident or just after. Something about the "Just after" comment struck me, especially as he then launched into a discussion of why Robert was the logical king if Viserys or an as yet unborn Dany were not desired as king. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1388 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
space lightning Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
space lightning Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I was curious if they were always going to kill Aegon and Rhaenys. It struck me that the rebel leaders definitely had other options than overthrowing the Targaryen dynasty, seeing how Aerys and Rhaegar were the only senior members besides Rhaella, who, as far as I know, wasn't held accountable for her husband's and her son's alleged crimes. They'd have to know the second they declared Robert King there would be murder of children if they wanted to install a new dynasty. By declaring Robert King, they'd also have to have realized that Lyanna's life would be forfeit if she was a hostage. I wonder why they didn't attempt to sue for peace with Rhaella, Mace, and the Martells, and demand Aerys's head, one of them as regent for Aegon, and Lyanna back? I'm curious what you guys think. The Lannisters really bailed Robert out by killing Aegon and Rhaenys, and we've been told Robert viewed himself as a hero. Someone would have to point out the inevitability of destroying theprevious dynasty completely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 There are options though, like sending Aegon to the Wall and Rhaenys to the Silent Sisters/Septas. It didn't necessarily need to end in their death. Maybe it was safer for Robert with them dead, but not essential. Just look at Maegor, until his...sister-in-law I think it was? Displeased him, he kept someone who could be a rival claimant to the throne in the Red Keep with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
space lightning Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Maegor never had any children, Aenys or whoever it was was his heir. And Aegor Rivers was sent to the wall before escaping and going on to cause more Blackfyre Rebellions. They were children, it would be a lot of years before they could join those organizations with any degree of legitamency, so if any of those kids fell into the hands of Targaryen loyalists, then there would be war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Um, no. Aenys was king, then Maegor. Maegor kept Aenys' son Viserys as his squire and hostage. Rhaenys could be sent to the Faith from pretty much any age, and yeah, Aegon was obviously too young as he was, but if he was kept as a ward/hostage of someone like Ned, Hoster, Jon or Tywin he ceases to become a threat. Killing them was not the only option Robert had, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
space lightning Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Though if they had been wards we'd probably have a war of the six kings... Robert's hatred of the Targaryens in AGOT and his claims that there are those who call him usurper may have led him to killing them once they were no longer children. But thats my opinion. What I'm really interested in is whether Robert was declared King in Robb Stark style, or if they decided to crown him in a council. What were the Rebellion's goals on at the beginning? Depose Aerys, get Lyanna back, presumably, but why did they decide to end it by crowning Robert? I'm just pondering, really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 But that could be due to Bloodraven's interference. Bran and Summe connected with Jon an Ghost while Bran was hidingvin the crypts at Winterfell and Jon was scouting with Qhorin beyond the Wall.Could you please quote the passage(s)?Maegor never had any children, Aenys or whoever it was was his heir. And Aegor Rivers was sent to the wall before escaping and going on to cause more Blackfyre Rebellions. They were children, it would be a lot of years before they could join those organizations with any degree of legitamency, so if any of those kids fell into the hands of Targaryen loyalists, then there would be war.Aenys was Maegors older brother. When Aenys died, Maegor took the crown, despite Aenys having three sons, Aegon, Viserys and Jaehaerys. Viserys, Jaehaerys and their sister Alysanne were kept as hostages with their mother, Alyssa. Alyssa, Jaehaerys and Alysanne were kept at Dragonstone, Viserys at KL. Aegon, and his sister-wife Rhaena, had not been anywhere near KL when Maegor took the crown, and thus were not taken captive.There is no minimum age to join the Faith. The NW wouldn't find a babe usefull, so if that was anyone's idea, idea, it would have had to wait for many years. But that's not the only option. There is also the possibility of keeping Rhaenys as the wife of Roberts future heir, uniting the lines.Jon Arryn and Ned would probably have asked for a peaceful solution, but others would have made different suggestions... Who would Robert have listened to? That's the thing to wonder about. I wouldn't say that, in a scenario where Tywin did not sack the city, Aegons chances of survival were so much better...Though if they had been wards we'd probably have a war of the six kings... Robert's hatred of the Targaryens in AGOT and his claims that there are those who call him usurper may have led him to killing them once they were no longer children. But thats my opinion. What I'm really interested in is whether Robert was declared King in Robb Stark style, or if they decided to crown him in a council. What were the Rebellion's goals on at the beginning? Depose Aerys, get Lyanna back, presumably, but why did they decide to end it by crowning Robert? I'm just pondering, really...I can only guess, but I would guess a council.. when you wish to try and dispose of a royal line, the question of "what next" will eventually come to mind..can't leave the kingdom without a ruler...The Rebellion was because Aerys demanded the heads of Robert and Ned. Disposing Aerys was part of that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Do you think there is a significant reason the cat Tommen calls "the bad cat" is called the real king of the castle? It is black and missing an ear. It is probably the same cat Arya was trying to catch the day she found secret passages. We know Arya warged the cat in Braavos-that is how she discovered the kindly man was fighting her. However, we have no POV Arya warging this cat.Could Bloodraven warg a cat in KL? Is it too far? What do you think? Sometimes a cat is just a cat, right?The cat is Balerion, Princess Rhaenys "kitten" when she was killed in the sack of King's Landing. I think someone may be warging the cat myself, but I am not sure. I think its Bloodraven, but it may be someone Varys knows. I think its called the king of the castle because its been around so long and the way it jumped up on the table and made King Robert laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 In TWOIAF it says that the most common skinchangers were those who controlled wolves, even direwolves and these have a special name among the wildings: wargs. So, all of this talk of which I myself am guilty of, of asking who is warging who is inaccurate unless we are speaking specifically of wolves. Apparently, anyones who controls other kinds of animals is a skinchanger. Bran seems to be extremely powerful as he can change to Hodor. So, does anyone know where in the books it states a name for the kind of skinchanger that is most powerful? We all know Bran is special, so, I'm wondering if this is something that Bloodraven himself cannot do. Obviously since Brandon did this well before he met Bloodraven, he was very powerful before he came in real contact with him aside from the 3 eyed crow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I was curious if they were always going to kill Aegon and Rhaenys. It struck me that the rebel leaders definitely had other options than overthrowing the Targaryen dynasty, seeing how Aerys and Rhaegar were the only senior members besides Rhaella, who, as far as I know, wasn't held accountable for her husband's and her son's alleged crimes. They'd have to know the second they declared Robert King there would be murder of children if they wanted to install a new dynasty. By declaring Robert King, they'd also have to have realized that Lyanna's life would be forfeit if she was a hostage. I wonder why they didn't attempt to sue for peace with Rhaella, Mace, and the Martells, and demand Aerys's head, one of them as regent for Aegon, and Lyanna back? I'm curious what you guys think. The Lannisters really bailed Robert out by killing Aegon and Rhaenys, and we've been told Robert viewed himself as a hero. Someone would have to point out the inevitability of destroying theprevious dynasty completely...That's not necessarily true. Politics is the art of the possible. If Tywin had spirited away the young prince and princess, he would have retained a valuable chip. He could have joined with the Reach and Dorne to oppose the others if not granted concessions. If Robertb held them they would have been valuable hostages. Aegon would have been a bit tricky, but he could have been warded at Winterfell or at Storm's End. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I'm trying to make a list of Targaryens who had monstrous babies. - Maegor I The Cruel (multiple) - Rhaenyra (a daughter, Visenya) - Daenerys (a son, Rhaego) Am I missing anyone? Have there been any monstrous babies born by non Targaryens? In the world book there are all kinds of people who have monstrous babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Could you please quote the passage(s)?You know the passage... http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113297-some-questions-about-jon-and-brans-hookup-on-the-weirnet/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 You know the passage...http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113297-some-questions-about-jon-and-brans-hookup-on-the-weirnet/Ah, that's the one. I always figured that this was Bran from the future speaking to Jon in the present. Just like how Bran sees Eddard, and calls out to him, but Ned only hears some vague sound..I figured the same thing was happening with Theon when he was in the godswood and thought the trees were saying his name. That that was Bran as well, but while it already happened for Theon, it hasn't happened yet for Bran. (i considered that it might, but had not been described by GRRM, but Bran speaking to Theon sounds important enough to get at least a vague mention). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Ah, that's the one. I always figured that this was Bran from the future speaking to Jon in the present. Just like how Bran sees Eddard, and calls out to him, but Ned only hears some vague sound..I figured the same thing was happening with Theon when he was in the godswood and thought the trees were saying his name. That that was Bran as well, but while it already happened for Theon, it hasn't happened yet for Bran. (i considered that it might, but had not been described by GRRM, but Bran speaking to Theon sounds important enough to get at least a vague mention).Well I can't argue definitively that you're wrong since we have the feal with Bran talking to The Ned later. But keep in mind th weirwood hook up occurs when Bran is still in the crypts. And Bran thinks later (but before he learns to see the past) that he opened Jon's third eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Well I can't argue definitively that you're wrong since we have the feal with Bran talking to The Ned later. But keep in mind th weirwood hook up occurs when Bran is still in the crypts. And Bran thinks later (but before he learns to see the past) that he opened Jon's third eye. I already hear, it is time to do a Bran and a Jon reread :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I already hear, it is time to do a Bran and a Jon reread :)And it's time for me to proofread my posts. Jiminy Cricket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 ^ I just want to tell you 2 that my own theory on that was that it was a prophetic Targ dream and we will see it actually happen next book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 ^ I just want to tell you 2 that my own theory on that was that it was a prophetic Targ dream and we will see it actually happen next book.But the latter part of the hook up involved Jon seeing the Mance's host at the Milkwater.... so, didn't it already happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I must have misunderstood. I thought you were talking about Jons dream at the beginning of Dance, Jon see's Mance's host in Clash or Storm. At the beginning of Dance he as ghost see's a weirwood tree that grows and semi transforms into Bran. Bran tells him he is not scared of the darkness anymore so it would seem like Bran is in the cave with BR when this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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