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Cavendish

Sansa is Weak

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Because she doesn't run around stabbing (sometimes innocent) people like her sister. Instead, she's made a victim by the Lannisters, and displays her strength in more subtle ways. Jon cited some good examples. There's also here going out of her way to save Dontos's life.

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It is perfectly fine to have it written like you have. Don't give in because of some irrational Sansa worshipers.

If people really get offended by my title, then this is the reason why all of us Sansa fans get a bad rep.

What's wrong with "Why do people think Sansa is weak?" as a title? The people who think so will tell you why (hopefully) and those who don't will do the same (hopefully).

It's generally better to just say what you mean, at any rate.

I don't think Sansa is weak, she shows immense internal fortitude to endure a very cruel captivity in Kings Landing. And I also don't think Arya is weak either, although I think she gets too much credit for being proactive or for "driving the events around herself". She has a lot of help along the way.

I'll probably stick to a normal title next time.

I agree with Arya getting too much credit btw. If anything Sansa is a lot more stronger and proactive given her situation.

You've settled up a quite nasty honeypot trap, haven't you?

IMHO, Sansa is the strongest of the litter. If I was in her difficult situation, that IMHO is psychologically very heavy, I would have already committed suicide a long time ago.

I like that term, honeytrap.

I agree with her being the strongest mental-wise anyways. I don't think anyone could hint at any of the Stark children being in Sansa's position and still keeping their sanity.

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Sansa is not weak, she was just really really naive.



I am actually surprised how naive she actually is/was. The Starks and Northmen in general seem to be very wary ,tough realists, feet planted on the ground people. "Winter is coming." I wouldn't have thought they would have filled their childrens heads with airy fairy nonsense. Ned took Bran to see a man's head being cut off at age 8 ffs. Arya certainly didn't seem to believe that crap either and she would have got the same education, you would think, as Sansa.



But I suppose Ned was just as equally naive in King's Landing as Sansa.


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Figured a lot of hate was going to be thrown around with that title, but not so bad so far.



Weak is such a vague term. I suppose the Sansa hate is that she is the most Tully (maybe I mean most little girlish) out of the Stark kids. She wanted to be in the south and wear pretty dresses, has classic auburn hair and marry a handsome man, etc. Also, I think people really didn't like her siding with Joff over the whole Nymeryia thing. She was the most gullible character we have have seen early on, but she's growing.



Arya, Robb, Jon probably had to become harder and colder in a hurry. Sansa seems like she's getting there, but is more into politics, which Ned never cared for. With that said, doesn't mean it's weak. No one would accuse Tywin of being weak, no one gives a shit that Rickon acts like a little kid, so I don't think calling her weak fair. Given the turmoil that Sansa has gone through, the fact she is still alive and out of KL, to me, means that she is not weak. She's just not a badass. With that said, don't love her chapters.


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I think she is a strong girl. She doesn't need to know how to fight to be strong, as many people think ...

Agreed, I think Sansa's strength is her resolve, her intelligence, and her ability to influence people. I think as Sansa develops she will be a match for characters like LF and Tyrion, who she is often associated with.

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Agreed, I think Sansa's strength is her resolve, her intelligence, and her ability to influence people. I think as Sansa develops she will be a match for characters like LF and Tyrion, who she is often associated with.

Come now, lets not get carried away. Sansa will exploit LF's weakness maybe, but that doesn't put her the level of masterminds such as LF, Tyrion or Varys.

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Agreed, I think Sansa's strength is her resolve, her intelligence, and her ability to influence people. I think as Sansa develops she will be a match for characters like LF and Tyrion, who she is often associated with.

Well, Yes, Sansa is smart, but i don't think she'll ever be match to LF and Tyrion.

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Better question: What is wrong with being weak? Why does every character has to be tough and take names in order to be liked/deserving of page time/whatever vague point the OP is getting at? If I wanted to read about Superman, I would be reading his comic books.

Personally, I find the concept tiring that you have to jump *this* high to be cool. As a result I am neither enchanted by the anti-Sansa brigade nor by the 'she'll be kicking ass soon and then our love wiill be justified' arguments.

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Sansa is physically weak. She is a weak little girl who can't protect herself. This means she has to play a part in King's Landing and tell the Lannisters what they want to hear.



However, she is very strong mentally and many fans do not recognise that. She fights back in the small ways she can e.g. refusing to bend her knees at her farce of a wedding. She copes better than any of her family with their losses. After Bran & Rickon's 'deaths', Catelyn releases Jaime, Arya kills a man to escape Harrenhal, Robb sleeps with and marries Jeyne but Sansa keeps her head. Similarly, after the Red Wedding, Arya sinks into depression but Sansa stays strong and armours herself in courtesy.



It's a different type of strength but many fans think that if a character is not fighting their enemies openly it makes them weak.

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Weak is such a vague term. I suppose the Sansa hate is that she is the most Tully (maybe I mean most little girlish) out of the Stark kids. She wanted to be in the south and wear pretty dresses, has classic auburn hair and marry a handsome man, etc. Also, I think people really didn't like her siding with Joff over the whole Nymeryia thing. She was the most gullible character we have have seen early on, but she's growing.

The most like Ned you mean? Because mentally she is basically his female version while Arya is much more their mother's daughter.

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Silly people. Underestimate the little Stark bird -- the winged she-wolf of Winterfell -- at your peril.



Agree with those who point out Sansa's strength of mind. A weaker girl would have been eaten alive between the Red Keep and Littlefinger's manipulations. I cannot wait until Sansa starts playing the game in earnest.



With her stunning beauty and that sweet smile, her enemies will never see her coming. :devil:


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The most like Ned you mean? Because mentally she is basically his female version while Arya is much more their mother's daughter.

I disagree. I suppose you say this because Arya is vengeful, like stoneheart. But, I don't see any Sansa in Ned. Besides I said Tully and Stark, which would bring in Lysa, Brandon and Lyanna.

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So?



ETA: This shit pisses me off not even for the Sansa hate, but because you folks will win. Because of your endless whining GRRM will have to have Sansa go Godzilla on something soon, just that this stupid bitchin about her being subpar finally stops. I for one would be much more happy if Sansa could have just stayed that naive, "weak", non-badass, somewhat simple girl, because I like her that way.


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It's a different type of strength but many fans think that if a character is not fighting their enemies openly it makes them weak.

Though she isn't fighting her enemies at all. She hasn't really done anything in the past 5 books (except for getting her wolf dead). And the power that she currently possesses is only thanks to Littlefinger.

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So?

ETA: This shit pisses me off not even for the Sansa hate, but because you folks will win. Because of your endless whining GRRM will have to have Sansa go Godzilla on something soon, just that this stupid bitchin about her being subpar finally stops. I for one would be much more happy if Sansa could have just stayed that naive, "weak", non-badass, somewhat simple girl, because I like her that way.

She is def not badass

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Though she isn't fighting her enemies at all.

You know what? Maybe she doesn't want to? Imagine that.

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I disagree. I suppose you say this because Arya is vengeful, like stoneheart. But, I don't see any Sansa in Ned. Besides I said Tully and Stark, which would bring in Lysa, Brandon and Lyanna.

Loving stories? Not holding any grudges? Shifting between a private and a public face? Stepping exactly into the role prescribed by society? That's all Ned.

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Though she isn't fighting her enemies at all. She hasn't really done anything in the past 5 books (except for getting her wolf dead). And the power that she currently possesses is only thanks to Littlefinger.

Yeah stupid Sansa, why didn't she wrestle the Hound, stab Cersei and singlehandedly beat the crap out of the Kindsguard to flee Kings Landing? Serioiusly what kind of freak Stark is she? Oh right, she must be like 90% Tully by some sort of freak of DNA, cos everyone knows the Tullys are like totally weak. Oh wait no, they held Riverrun for over a thousand years, so that doesn't work.

Well, maybe Sansa was adopted.

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Loving stories? Not holding any grudges? Shifting between a private and a public face? Stepping exactly into the role prescribed by society? That's all Ned.

I'm don't want to hi-jack this topic out of respect to OP, so I won't reply to any retort you offer to this post, just leave it as agree to disagree.

Lying about Nymeria, seeing Ned's head on a spike, being involved in a plot that involved murder of the Dontos, covering up the murder of her aunt, becoming aware of a plan that involved the murder of her dad's mentor in Jon Arryn. None of that is Ned. Not holding any grudges, Ned held grudges against Jamie and Jorah. Ned was bad at the game of thrones, I think Sansa may be built for it.

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Sansa is not weak, she was just really really naive.

I am actually surprised how naive she actually is/was. The Starks and Northmen in general seem to be very wary ,tough realists, feet planted on the ground people. "Winter is coming." I wouldn't have thought they would have filled their childrens heads with airy fairy nonsense. Ned took Bran to see a man's head being cut off at age 8 ffs. Arya certainly didn't seem to believe that crap either and she would have got the same education, you would think, as Sansa.

But I suppose Ned was just as equally naive in King's Landing as Sansa.

Nah, Arya and Bran were equally naive/idealistic. Bran had all the notions of chivalry and becoming a knight and believed Old Nan's stories.

And in aCoK, when Yoren says they could go to Harrenhal, Arya thinks, "Yes, there are knights at Harrenhal and knights protect people". Even when she leaves Sandor to die, she says he should've saved her mother, because presumably that's what knights do.

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