Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Cavendish

Sansa is Weak

Recommended Posts

Sansa isn't weak. No, she isn't a warrior princess, but she held her composure when her whole world was falling apart. Her worth is that nobody knows what she is thinking. Littlefinger is a fool if he underestimates her as just a pretty face or Cat Jr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She is weak but so is everybody else in this book.

Sansa is human she is suppose to be weak at times she's a child surrounded by monsters she deserves her moments of weakness.

Though she's a very strong person most of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont get that shes more Tully? Ya'll act like Brynden Blackfish wouldnt fuck Ned Stark up



Edit; Maybe she is more Tully


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course she's weak!

Remember when Joffrey forced her to see her dad's chopped head? And what does she do? Ask for how long she has to keep staring. Pfff, what a wuss.

She started to shove Joeffry off the roof, but The Hound stopped her.

And then when Meryn Trant slaps the shit out of her she doesn't stand there just gaping like a brave person. No, she goes "You're no true knight, Ser Meryn". Can you believe that weakling?

Is she supposed to fight a knight in full armor with no weapon?

And when she doesn't freak out with the rest of the women at Maegor's Holdfast during Blackwater, and instead tries to calm them like an absolute coward?

And how about that part when she turns into the punching bag of the Kingsguard and she still keeps on parroting her lies about loving Joffrey? Dear lord, so weak

Oh, and that bit when she has to make small talk with the people responsible of killing their brother and mother, with the murders still super fresh in her mind? Weak, weak, weak

I get that this is sarcasm. The fact that Sansa didn't go nuts proves her strength.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though she isn't fighting her enemies at all. She hasn't really done anything in the past 5 books (except for getting her wolf dead). And the power that she currently possesses is only thanks to Littlefinger.

Sansa is a 13 year-old girl. She's no warrior. What do you expect her to do? What Sansa has done in the last 5 books is survive and observe. If she had tried fighting the Lannisters, she would have got herself killed. Sansa's perceived weakness is her strength, just like Doran Martell and Wyman Manderly because people will never suspect them.

Sansa hasn't fought her enemies because she hasn't been able to but she has stood up to them in the small ways she can, like when Joffrey took her to see her father's head on a spike and when she told the Tyrells what Joffrey is truly like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what? Maybe she doesn't want to? Imagine that.

Being the bigger (wo)man requires far more strength than thirsting for revenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said!



I like to imagine how Arya would've handled being in Sansa's place and Sansa in hers. I think the answer is, they'd both be dead. Strength doesn't have to mean physical toughness. Strength can come in many forms. Brienne says of Cat that she has a "woman's courage" and the same may be said of Sansa. Her ability to maintain composure in the midst of all she's put through is proof of her mental strength. Just because she doesn't yell and fight at every turn does not mean she is weak.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Cavendish. I can see by the number of posts by your name that you and I are both less experienced on the forums than some others. It is not considered good form to create a controversial topic heading to get attention. Consider it akin to "clickbait" in other areas of the interwebs. But also note that a thought-provoking topic does not need an provocative title to get input. I think simply putting Sansa's name in the topic header will garner much feedback.



I like your question; however, I didn't like the title so I almost skipped it. I know there are many posters here who have years of experience reading, discussing, and dissecting topics like this. I have not read many of them yet but, while opinions seem to cover the rainbow on other topics, I am confident you will receive representation from every perspective. I haven't even had time to read all of the posts on this thread yet. But my initial thoughts are these: I think all of the characters, Sansa included, are like us - a mixture of strengths and weaknesses, positives, negatives, and neutrals. Most of the characters are not in stasis: life means change, whether we are growing or decaying. So, some people are strong at certain times in certain ways while others are strong in other ways and times.



Sansa is a 12-year-old girl child from a remote Northern home. There is not even a real town where she lives. She has been told since the cradle that her only goal is to become a lady in a beneficial marriage, but she has years of training remaining before she will be ready for that. I think it is crucial to note that each of the children draws measurable strength from the direwolf bond...except Sansa. She lost something important with Lady's death. But I do think she will recover part of that loss at some point.



Good luck with your reading and with future posts. I am trying to learn better search methods to find existing threads on topics so you may want to try that too.



ETA: what the heck formatting


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh boy/girl, hopefully Mladen doesn't skin you alive for that title. A piece of advice: Don't. It's bad form.

Do you know how much energy it needs to skin people? You do know how skinny Boltons are...

She hasn't learned to use the power of the _____ yet

Awww... Just what we needed... Author regarded as feminist apparently is all about that.

Hey, it's me again with a controversial title...

Wouldn't that be what they call "trolling"?

Yeap, that is that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've settled up a quite nasty honeypot trap, haven't you?

IMHO, Sansa is the strongest of the litter. If I was in her difficult situation, that IMHO is psychologically very heavy, I would have already committed suicide a long time ago.

I don't think she's weak, but I think saying she is the strongest out of that group of kids that have all proven to be unbelievably resilient is a bit much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but Sansa is weak. Unlike her other siblings she isn't driving the events around herself at all but seems to be caught up in the current helpless to do anything. There may not be much that she can do but really she hasn't even tried. She may become a strong character, possibly even the strongest, but she is very weak at present. Allowing herself to hate Cersie is a positive step and perhaps she will grow to hopefully betray LF. Remember the line from Braveheart "Now you know what it means to hate. Now you are ready to be a king." I think GRRM may have this in mind for Sansa but she hasn't shown much to date.

That line could apply to Jon Snow as well." I want to rain death and destruction upon house lannister not scorn" or something to that effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She is perceived as week because she is naive and very passive.


She is pretty strong actually, even though she is passive.



She also has a coldness to her unlike the more fiery female characters who are considered strong such as Arya, Dany, Cersei or even Cat. That is not weakness though, it is a strength.



I also think the way her fans are so over protective of her is making others see her as weak.



The bottom line is , throughout the fandom she is considered one of the most likely to survive to the end character - that in itself testify people don't actually think she so weak.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think she's weak, but I think saying she is the strongest out of that group of kids that have all proven to be unbelievably resilient is a bit much.

I am not sure that we can quantify strength, especially psychological one and that is why I wouldn't be hasty to make statements like that. Thing is that Sansa is not what people used to. If she has vagina, then her strength has to be the same as those with penises. The other types of strengths are not even noticed. Arya is strong because she can hold a sword, but there is so much to her character that makes her strong, just as in Sansa, that people often forget.

She is perceived as week because she is naive and very passive.

She is pretty strong actually, even though she is passive.

I am not sure she is passive. I mean, entire her going to Cersei for her own agenda speaks little of passiveness. Not kneeling to Tyrion wasn't passive, it was very much telling. And so on...

I also think the way her fans are so over protective of her is making others see her as weak.

I feel like that Sansa discussion will inevitably lead to discussion about Sansa fans. Which indeed is a pity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't bring age as argument. GRRM really did fuck up there. 14 year old boys and 15(?) year old girls are already leading armies. Show did a lot better in that case. In my head I picture the characters in the books older too.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't bring age as argument. GRRM really did fuck up there. 14 year old boys and 15(?) year old girls are already leading armies. Show did a lot better in that case. In my head I picture the characters in the books older too.

The age, although a bit messed up, should never be abandoned as an argumentation. As much as Arya is capable, she is still emotionally pre-teen. Dany and Jon also behaves like the usual teenagers. These children, even when they are Princesses, Lords, Kings and Queens, ultimately remain that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure that we can quantify strength, especially psychological one and that is why I wouldn't be hasty to make statements like that. Thing is that Sansa is not what people used to. If she has vagina, then her strength has to be the same as those with penises. The other types of strengths are not even noticed. Arya is strong because she can hold a sword, but there is so much to her character that makes her strong, just as in Sansa, that people often forget.

I agree with you about quantifying strength and that there are different kinds. I didn't say she wasn't strong. Making any sort of comparison of such a subjectively defined thing such as "strength" is always going to be messy and highly contentious because there are too many other variables that play a role such as the completely different situations the characters are in including the people they are surrounded by, the ages, social statuses, knowledge base, genders, or any number of other things. That is in addition to the huge differences in the ways people define strength and the weights they give to certain aspects of it.

Remember that I was responding to somebody making a claim stating that they think Sansa is possibly the strongest out of all the kids. Due to the nature of her situation I just don't see enough in story evidence myself to come to any sort of conclusion about her "strength" relative to her siblings. We know how Sansa reacted in her very specific type of situation which required a certain kind of strength and a lot of passivity. I think due to circumstances there is a greater variety of situations Sansa's siblings had to deal with that required a greater variety of responses. I think there is more overall in story evidence for most of her siblings, but it doesn't mean I think Sansa handled her situation poorly or would just give up if she found herself in others' situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×