The Parallel Journey of Daenerys Targaryen & ... Part II

[BearQueen87]

There's a bit of a contradiction here, it seems to me. Ladies cover up with complicated smallclothes, but all of the hidden architecture serves the goal of showing off Sansa's bosoms in the same way that the Queen's bosoms are made lovely using artificial supports. Maybe this is jumping the gun - I know that Cersei refers to her sagging breasts during her walk of shame, and that she concludes that the small folk will no longer respect her now that they have seen her sagging, aging body. I can wait if this is part of JCRB's upcoming essay.

It's a pretty famous double standard and it even exists in our world. Women should be covered up and not parade their bodies around because if they do they are "loose" or "harlots" or "sluts." But at the same time, you should show off your assets by hinting at what is underneath all the clothing. The complicated smallclothes are like battle armor. They are designed to nip, tuck, hold in, and push up everything that needs nipped, tucked, held in, and pushed up so that you are both seen and not seen. You should not want men to objectify you by wearing inappropriate clothing, but at the same time, the things you are wearing should be there to entice and allure.

Complex, no?

Taena of Myr - Is there an equivalent or similar character in Dany's entourage for Lady Merryweather? She's a bedmate for Cersei, which might suggest Dany's handmaid. (I think GRRM wants us to compare handmaids to Hands of the King, so Taena convincing Cersei to send away her own longtime handmaid might tend to support this.) But Taena also seems to bring out the worst in Cersei, which Dany's handmaids do not do. So maybe there is a parallel character among the nobles of Meereen; someone who plays a role in leading Dany down a bad path?

Taena has an ego, Dany's handmaids (Irri more specifically she she and Tanea "service" their queen in the same manner) do not. Taena is doing everything she does in AFFC for herself, her family, and her son. Irri does it because 1) she really loves the Khalessi and 2) it's what she was raised to do. She might be free and under no obligation to do anything for Dany out of fear of death or punishment, but it's very hard to break from the way you were raised and the belief that were instilled, even if Dany is trying to tell Irri that she need not do some of these things that Irri ends up doing.

Merryweather makes me thing of "fair weather friends"

:agree: Tanea goes running the moment Cersei is out of favor--something Cersei would have done in a heartbeat if the roles were reversed.

[Kyoshi]

Bear Queen,

I really like the point you're making on women and clothing. I worked on a project that explored a similar subject, especially where sexual harassment and rape cases are involved. It's a very good point you bring up.

[BearQueen87]

I've been giving some more thought to Cersei and Dany's clothing choices and the way it illustrates how they see the world.

Cersei tends to wear a lot of ostentatious clothing. Rich fabrics that is often jewel colored, large jewels, intricate lace and bodice work. Everything about Cersei's gowns scream "money." Now, on the one hand, that's pretty understandable. She is the Queen and a Lannister, the latter being the wealthiest family in the 7K. For Cersei money and power go hand in hand (again, understandable given who her family is). But for Cersei the best way to show your power is through wealth and that means literally wearing it on your body. Everything about her should read as expensive and lux, which in her mind equates to power. That's part of the highly symbolic shaving and disrobing for her WoS; she's literally rendered powerless not only because of the task put upon her but because she's been shorne and disrobed. Without her expensive clothing, she's just another woman in the crowd.

Dany, by contrast, wears some pretty simplistic outfits. Take out the tokar and any time that Dany wears clothing only meant to serve as a costume for her performances, but the outfits she wears are simple gowns, or often times painted leggings and a vest or even less than that, the lionskin pelt or nothing at all. Dany understands power and money and how the two interplay, but she doesn't feel the need to display it on her body like Cersei. She doesn't need people to read her body and what she wears to understand that she is a rich and powerful woman. We've seen her in some highly ostentatious outfits before, perhaps most notably in her first AGOT chapter in which Viserys dresses her in a gorgeous gown that frightens her. It doesn't add to her power (mostly because she has none to begin with) but actually devalues her further; she's a set of goods that has to be prettied up and collard in order for Drogo to find her appealing. It speaks to what Dany wants out of life; a simple life. She doesn't need the wealth and the power and the money. Dany just wants to live. Cersei wants everything and then some.

Just some more passing thoughts.

[Kyoshi]

Double post.

[MoIaF]

I've been giving some more thought to Cersei and Dany's clothing choices and the way it illustrates how they see the world.

Cersei tends to wear a lot of ostentatious clothing. Rich fabrics that is often jewel colored, large jewels, intricate lace and bodice work. Everything about Cersei's gowns scream "money." Now, on the one hand, that's pretty understandable. She is the Queen and a Lannister, the latter being the wealthiest family in the 7K. For Cersei money and power go hand in hand (again, understandable given who her family is). But for Cersei the best way to show your power is through wealth and that means literally wearing it on your body. Everything about her should read as expensive and lux, which in her mind equates to power. That's part of the highly symbolic shaving and disrobing for her WoS; she's literally rendered powerless not only because of the task put upon her but because she's been shorne and disrobed. Without her expensive clothing, she's just another woman in the crowd.

Dany, by contrast, wears some pretty simplistic outfits. Take out the tokar and any time that Dany wears clothing only meant to serve as a costume for her performances, but the outfits she wears are simple gowns, or often times painted leggings and a vest or even less than that, the lionskin pelt or nothing at all. Dany understands power and money and how the two interplay, but she doesn't feel the need to display it on her body like Cersei. She doesn't need people to read her body and what she wears to understand that she is a rich and powerful woman. We've seen her in some highly ostentatious outfits before, perhaps most notably in her first AGOT chapter in which Viserys dresses her in a gorgeous gown that frightens her. It doesn't add to her power (mostly because she has none to begin with) but actually devalues her further; she's a set of goods that has to be prettied up and collard in order for Drogo to find her appealing. It speaks to what Dany wants out of life; a simple life. She doesn't need the wealth and the power and the money. Dany just wants to live. Cersei wants everything and then some.

Just some more passing thoughts.

Just to add to this:

So you remember that scene in ADWD where the envoy from Astapor brings Dany a set of ornate slippers King Cleon gifted to her. Dany puts on the slippers out of respect but they are too tight and they hurt her feet. After a while she takes them off and stays barefooted just swinging her legs in freedom.

Expensive and ornate clothing bring Dany no joy, she truly likes the simpler things.

[Kyoshi]

^something to add to your passing thoughts, Bear Queen: remember when Cersei wore the black gown with red rubies to make her look like she was crying blood, and like she was Rhaegar?

[SeanF]

In terms of eating, Cersei packs her food and drink away. She's always had a hearty appetite when it comes to food, and she's begun to drink heavily, under the stress of being Regent. She's putting on weight.

Whereas stress affects Dany differently. She picks at her food, and sips at her wine, but I don't think we ever see her eat heartily. She weighs hardly anything.

[BearQueen87]

Just to add to this:

So you remember that scene in ADWD where the envoy from Astapor brings Dany a set of ornate slippers King Cleon gifted to her. Dany puts on the slippers out of respect but they are too tight and they hurt her feet. After a while she takes them off and stays barefooted just swinging her legs in freedom.

Expensive and ornate clothing bring Dany no joy, she truly likes the simpler things.

^something to add to your passing thoughts, Bear Queen: remember when Cersei wore the black gown with red rubies to make her look like she was crying blood, and like she was Rhaegar?

Two excellent examples.

In terms of eating, Cersei packs her food and drink away. She's always had a hearty appetite when it comes to food, and she's begun to drink heavily, under the stress of being Regent. She's putting on weight.

Like Robert. Winning the kingdoms was easy, ruling it is a different matter.

[Ser Creighton]

Touching on Tanea, when Dany goes missing Irri rides to find her, when Cersei gets in troudle, Tanea bolts though she did come see her at the sept. As for Dany and clothing, BQ and MolaF basically have it right, her cheerished clothing is a lion skin that smells musty, but she loves it. Dany tends to like things that have a significance to her, she doesn't like her crown, it's heavy but she wears it because it was a gift and because she regrets when they had to sell moms crown. She hates Tokars, but wears them out of duty and respect, though the slavers do not deserve it, she loved her painted vest and riding leggings, she prefers to be bare foot even as a child.

She may find something beautiful like the slippers but she prefers comfort in most cases, or practical comfort. No big throne, a bench with a pillow or 20 (Selmy rules). If it means something to her then she tends to like it. You can even get into what she eats, have you ever seen Dany sit down to a huge fancy meal? Ok outside of the horse heart that's pretty big. But no way in hell Cersei does that because it is a tradition from another culture. Normally she eats small simple meals like dates, olives and cheese. But she will eat the food of other cultures, like horse meat, locust (the market in Thrones, right before someone tried to poison her, which is why I think it was the wine and not the locusts), and also the sausages, she had a fond memory of these things and really wanted one. Just it was horse meat and not pork but not the same. Dany also does not drink wine very often or much of it. Dany prefers water, cold as you can find it.

That is another thing about Dany, she does attempt to adapt to what is around her, Cersei, wants the world to adapt to her. Granted slavery is not up for being adapted with Dany, but she will marry a slaver for peace, she will wear the Tokar, she will show her breast, I think she even ate puppy once (I hope not, save the puppies Dany). Need her to ride a horse all day? She will learn. Live in a tent? Fine. Eat the leavings of your dragon? Fine. Walk through a waste land? Ok. Take delight in a small over ripe peach. That is Dany. Tend to the sick or fallen, she will do it.

I have seen people say that is a bad thing that it is just some sort of complex. Helping people is not a complex, it is a good thing. Her internal thoughts are on display and they are for those people she is helping, not herself. Would Cersei come near anyone with the Pale mare? Would she grieve for a fallen soilder?

Do you know how fucked up slavers bay has to be for her not to find any pleasure there? I mean a god damn pork sausage, an old must lions pelt, and a small over ripe peach made her happy. A glass of cold water brouth her pleasure. Her fantasies include a simple house with red door, and someone to love. Would Cersei, adore Missy, or Belwas? Would she ask for stories from Selmy would she love the simple books Jorah gave Dany?

By the way I think Jaime and Jorah have a bit of a parallel. Cersei sends Jaime away and he did betray her, and Dany sent Jorah away. Jorah is basically gutted and wants nothing more than to see her again, and she misses her bear. Not because of his service, because that is her bear and probably her best friend in all the world. Yeah he fucked up, but he always loved her. If Dany sent a letter to Jorah and said come back, how long... Well hell she doesn't have to send a letter. Cersei sent a letter, Jaime is not coming back. That is the difference, where Dany inspires love, devotion, and loyalty among most of her people. Cersei inspires hate, and mistrust. Dany's people fight for her because they want to, Cersei's people fight for her because they feel they have too.

In Dance both Cersei and Dany take a little walk both of them have lost their hair. Cersei starts out with pride and ends in shame. Dany starts off with little pride, but her walk ends in strength. Why both woman trip and bang their knees. And the small folk they boo Cersei and insult her. Do you think if Dany walked into Meereen the freedmen would boo her, or the Unsullied. Do you think if the Sept took her prisoner, that the Unsullied, Dothraki or Freedmen would stand for it? The rich cruel slavers might boo her, which would probably lead the freemen on a rampage. The small folk call Cersei a Queen because they have too, the Freemen call their Queen mother because they want too. Because that is the truth to them. The main religion of Essos speaks of Dany as their champion, the primary religion of Westeros arrested Cersei.

Would anyone ever speak about Cersei like this? Granted it's a mix from the show, but not innacurate.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yP8B1_OUyp8

Tyrion, Cersei' own brother comapred the two.

I know that she spent her childhood in exile, impoverished, living on dreams and schemes, running from one city to the next, always fearful, never safe, friendless but for a brother who was by all accounts half-mad...a brother who sold her maidenhood to the Dothraki for the promise of an army. I know that somewhere upon the grass, her dragons hatched, and so did she. I know she is proud. How not? What else was left her but pride? I know she is strong. How not? The Dothraki despise weakness. If Daenerys had been weak, she would have perished with Viserys. I know she is fierce. Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen are proof enough of that. She has survived assassins and conspiracies and fell sorceries, grieved for a brother and a husband and a son, trod the cities of the slavers to dust beneath her dainty sandalled feet.

“This Mother of Dragons, this Breaker of Chains, is above all a rescuer. "

“Cersei is as gentle as King Maegor, as selfless as Aegon the Unworthy, as wise as Mad Aerys. She never forgets a slight, real or imagined. She takes caution for cowardice and dissent for defiance. And she is greedy. Greedy for power, for honor, for love. Tommen’s rule is bolstered by all of the alliances that my lord father built so carefully, but soon enough she will destroy them, every one.”

Cersei may wish to be a true queen, she may wish she was a Targaryen. But there is only one mother of Dragons, only one breaker of chains and this Daronglord does not bow to the Usurper who pretends to her throne. Not in life, not in rule, and not in quality as a human being. Daenerys Targaryen is not the slayer of lies because she will fight for her birthright, Daenerys Targaryen is the slayer of lies, because she is the truth and that is only thing that slays lies.

[BearQueen87]

Do you know how fucked up slavers bay has to be for her not to find any pleasure there? I mean a god damn pork sausage, an old must lions pelt, and a small over ripe peach made her happy. A glass of cold water brouth her pleasure. Her fantasies include a simple house with red door, and someone to love. Would Cersei, adore Missy, or Belwas? Would she ask for stories from Selmy would she love the simple books Jorah gave Dany?

By the way I think Jaime and Jorah have a bit of a parallel. Cersei sends Jaime away and he did betray her, and Dany sent Jorah away. Jorah is basically gutted and wants nothing more than to see her again, and she misses her bear. Not because of his service, because that is her bear and probably her best friend in all the world. Yeah he fucked up, but he always loved her. If Dany sent a letter to Jorah and said come back, how long... Well hell she doesn't have to send a letter. Cersei sent a letter, Jaime is not coming back. That is the difference, where Dany inspires love, devotion, and loyalty among most of her people. Cersei inspires hate, and mistrust. Dany's people fight for her because they want to, Cersei's people fight for her because they feel they have too.

Okay, well now that I'm in a small ball because I have a lot of feelings over Daenerys Targaryen and Jorah Mormont....

I think you're dead on about Jaime and Jorah. I had an essay idea in my head at one point, looking at Jaime and Jorah and their own redemptive arcs WRT to Brienne and Dany, but also about how they are rejecting the things that once were their entire world: Cersei and Bear Island/Lynesse.

Both couples are the Bear and the Maiden Fair type of story, but with gendered differences.

Would anyone ever speak about Cersei like this? Granted it's a mix from the show, but not innacurate.

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=yP8B1_OUyp8

*whimper*

Also, Show! Jorah says what Book! Jorah wishes he could say but sadly my bear has problems with words. He is absolutely thinking ALL OF THOSE THINGS in books 1-5.

Ok aside from all my feelings, I really loved your entire post. The Cersei/Dany contrasts are really quite strong and interesting. I tend to think that Cersei and Dany will never meet but from Cersei's fiery destruction comes Dany's chance to rebuild what her family started so long ago.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Hi, guys!

I'll be brief. I've been in the hospital since Saturday. I got a small surgery in my face due to a quite severe infection in a molar piece but doctors wanted me to stay until I was ok. I'm fine now and I've reborn from my ashes like an hypogriff*. And yes, during my recovery, I knew I got to post here :lol:

Give me a few days to go back to normal and post back my article. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Beard.

*I know hypogriffs don't do that but in GRRMverse, they kinda do and he's the boss... I think? :dunno:

Get Better :( Sorry you were taken ill.

[Ser Creighton]

Okay, well now that I'm in a small ball because I have a lot of feelings over Daenerys Targaryen and Jorah Mormont....

I think you're dead on about Jaime and Jorah. I had an essay idea in my head at one point, looking at Jaime and Jorah and their own redemptive arcs WRT to Brienne and Dany, but also about how they are rejecting the things that once were their entire world: Cersei and Bear Island/Lynesse.

Both couples are the Bear and the Maiden Fair type of story, but with gendered differences.

*whimper*

Also, Show! Jorah says what Book! Jorah wishes he could say but sadly my bear has problems with words. He is absolutely thinking ALL OF THOSE THINGS in books 1-5.

Ok aside from all my feelings, I really loved your entire post. The Cersei/Dany contrasts are really quite strong and interesting. I tend to think that Cersei and Dany will never meet but from Cersei's fiery destruction comes Dany's chance to rebuild what her family started so long ago.

Well I posted that video for you because I know how much you like Jorah. I do give Jorah shit sometimes, but I do like him very much, I understand he was coming from an empty world and started out under the thumb of Varys. But I don't doubt his feelings for Dany.

Yes there is that Bear and the maiden fair theme with Dany and Jorah as well.

I don't think Dany will meet Cersei either, but I was refering to Aegon, Stannis, the false son of Rhaegar and the false Azor and King. She will know the truth of them before she lands.

Rebuilding is an intresting thing. Tell me have you ever watched the sun and moon? Valyrians are a funny lot you know. When Azor broke the world the age a fire began, and the Valyrians rose to power in the east. And then their power began to set. But like the sun when it was done setting in Essos, it began to rise in Westeros, and it rose to power and then it's power faded from Westeros. Only to rise again once more in the east and begin it's climb. Though eventually it will set in the east and begin to rise in the west again.

Because that's what suns and moons do, the planet is ever rotating like a wheel, it's the cycle of their dance. One might even say, depending on perspective, that if the sun was rising in the west and setting in the east that Dany would have moved to Westeros. Though that event happens everyday Essos is the east and it will set there, and westeros is the west and it will rise there as suns and moons are want to do. I guess it would just depend on where you are standing.

Glad you liked the last post, didn't feel like Jorah was getting talked about enough given what a major part of her life he has been. He really is her best friend, they fight but so do friends. Oh and he is bringing her a present, her very own yard Gnome. She can place it on the yard when she gets the house with the Red door and he can...? What are garden Gnome' suppose to do? Now we know she likes lions, so she will like her present. Oh and she gets a Penny too, oh she will like that. Penny can ride around on Belwas, like Master Blaster from Thunder dome. They can go around beating up slavers.

[BearQueen87]

Glad you liked the last post, didn't feel like Jorah was getting talked about enough given what a major part of her life he has been. He really is her best friend, they fight but so do friends. Oh and he is bringing her a present, her very own yard Gnome. She can place it on the yard when she gets the house with the Red door and he can...? What are garden Gnome' suppose to do?

I really wish I hadn't laughed for like 5 solid minutes over this...

My garden Gnome is named Walter. I move him around the yard and take pictures of him going on an adventure. (...not kidding...)

But in other news, Jorah is her best friend, you're right and she misses him quite a bit--not just his advice and his belief in her, but just *him* It's another contrast with Cersei; she doesn't have time for real friends and nor would she want a real friend. Friends are tools to use and dispose of once they outlive their usefulness.

[Direwolf Resilience]

Guess what? I'm listening to the finale soundtrack of season 1, the one I like to think is Dany's theme, and reading this thread. I'm ecstatic.

This is one of my favorite re-read threads. There, I said it, so now you know. Keep up the great job. :bowdown:

[SeanF]

The Lannisters can come over as rather vulgar, with their ostentation. Although being ostentatious was part and parcel of medieval royalty (Henry VIII) plastered Hampton Court with gold leaf (fortunately long removed). Dany is far more understated.

[BearQueen87]

Guess what? I'm listening to the finale soundtrack of season 1, the one I like to think is Dany's theme, and reading this thread. I'm ecstatic.

This is one of my favorite re-read threads. There, I said it, so now you know. Keep up the great job. :bowdown:

Aww, thanks! We like it too

The Lannisters can come over as rather vulgar, with their ostentation. Although being ostentatious was part and parcel of medieval royalty (Henry VIII) plastered Hampton Court with gold leaf (fortunately long removed). Dany is far more understated.

Dany also did not grow up surrounded by wealth and luxury, which plays a big part in all this. It might be interesting to ponder what Dany would have been like had she been raised at Court and not on the run with her mad brother.

[SeanF]

Aww, thanks! We like it too

Dany also did not grow up surrounded by wealth and luxury, which plays a big part in all this. It might be interesting to ponder what Dany would have been like had she been raised at Court and not on the run with her mad brother.

Actually, I think it makes little difference. Some people who come from nothing go on a spending spree when they get the chance.

Dany enjoys the privacy and the personal service that her wealth affords her. But gold, jewels, lavish food and drink are of little importance to her. She would get far more pleasure from walking among the plants on the Dothraki Sea than from a lavish banquet.

[BearQueen87]

Actually, I think it makes little difference. Some people who come from nothing go on a spending spree when they get the chance.

Dany enjoys the privacy and the personal service that her wealth affords her. But gold, jewels, lavish food and drink are of little importance to her. She would get far more pleasure from walking among the plants on the Dothraki Sea than from a lavish banquet.

I tend to agree that growing up in KL wouldn't have changed Dany to any extreme extent. Rhaella seemed like a woman with a good head on her shoulders and I think she would have tried to instill in Dany a sense of decorum. It also comes back to nature vs nurture. Had Dany been raised in KL, she would have have the nurture aspect down pact with Rhaella, but so did Cersei with her mother Joanna. Cersei was into adolescence (I believe?) when Joanna died and yet still came out the way Cersei did. Nurture might have been the same, but it's the nature where we find the big difference. Look at Jaime. Both he and his twin were raised by Tywin and Joanna, yet (to paraphrase Gemma's speech in AFFC) Jaime has little Tywin in him and instead is a mix of Joanna and the other brothers. Cersei got all of Tywin's ruthlessness but not much of his cunning; instead she is inexplicably more Aerys-like.

[Seams]

Actually, I think it makes little difference. Some people who come from nothing go on a spending spree when they get the chance.

Dany enjoys the privacy and the personal service that her wealth affords her. But gold, jewels, lavish food and drink are of little importance to her. She would get far more pleasure from walking among the plants on the Dothraki Sea than from a lavish banquet.

I think the important distinction that GRRM wants us to recognize is that Dany sees the trappings of wealth and royalty as a means to an end: people tell her she has to wear a tokar in order to command respect, so she reluctantly wears a tokar all day. She wants to restore her family to the iron throne, but she understands that wealth and extravagance are not goals; being a leader means making life better for the small folk. Cersei thinks that lavish weddings and feasts and titles are the goal of power. She also recognizes that the trappings of wealth are important for maintaining the image of a queen, but she has no idea how to use power to improve life for the community.

I tend to agree that growing up in KL wouldn't have changed Dany to any extreme extent. Rhaella seemed like a woman with a good head on her shoulders and I think she would have tried to instill in Dany a sense of decorum. It also comes back to nature vs nurture. Had Dany been raised in KL, she would have have the nurture aspect down pact with Rhaella, but so did Cersei with her mother Joanna. Cersei was into adolescence (I believe?) when Joanna died and yet still came out the way Cersei did. Nurture might have been the same, but it's the nature where we find the big difference. Look at Jaime. Both he and his twin were raised by Tywin and Joanna, yet (to paraphrase Gemma's speech in AFFC) Jaime has little Tywin in him and instead is a mix of Joanna and the other brothers. Cersei got all of Tywin's ruthlessness but not much of his cunning; instead she is inexplicably more Aerys-like.

I think I would be more convinced of this if I hadn't recently read the Dunk & Egg stories. I think GRRM makes a big point of saying that Egg's brothers weren't raised in a way that makes them compassionate and smart. When Egg insists on being Dunk's squire, Dunk convinces Egg's father by pointing out that his son will learn and be a better person by being exposed to life on the road and by serving someone instead of being served. Dany sees herself as someone who was sold as a slave (her arranged marriage to Drogo). She also always felt subordinate to her nasty brother, who she assumed would be king. So she believes that she feels and understands the lives of slaves in Essos.

Clearly, Cersei never saw herself as subordinate to anyone. I think the fortune teller is the only person who has gotten under her skin by telling her that she was not in control and would not have a happy outcome.

[BearQueen87]

I think I would be more convinced of this if I hadn't recently read the Dunk & Egg stories. I think GRRM makes a big point of saying that Egg's brothers weren't raised in a way that makes them compassionate and smart. When Egg insists on being Dunk's squire, Dunk convinces Egg's father by pointing out that his son will learn and be a better person by being exposed to life on the road and by serving someone instead of being served. Dany sees herself as someone who was sold as a slave (her arranged marriage to Drogo). She also always felt subordinate to her nasty brother, who she assumed would be king. So she believes that she feels and understands the lives of slaves in Essos.

Clearly, Cersei never saw herself as subordinate to anyone. I think the fortune teller is the only person who has gotten under her skin by telling her that she was not in control and would not have a happy outcome.

True, but Egg was raised by the same people who raised his brothers and yet was a world apart (and Aemon can be counted as being apart as well. Really, it's Aerion who is the "eeeeek" factor here). Egg might have been haughty and privileged (but what Westerosi high born isn't?) but he wasn't cruel and sadistic when we first met him. He sees the actions of his brothers and instead of emulating them, rejects their behaviors. Dunk's "nurturing" certainly helped to make Egg into a good man, but he was already a good boy. If GRRM is getting his audience to have the nature vs nurture debate, he might be coming down on the nature side of things a bit more.