Astronomy of Planetos II: The Bloodstone Compendium

[Mychel_Redfort]

I know that there is something there, I’ve definitely noticed the shield heraldry connection... I need to re-read D & E now that I have this theory in mind. Mithras quoted a passage from D & E with Bloodraven disguised as Maynard Plum that sounded pretty rich. So no, no theory yet, except that I would expect to find more confirmation / detail of the astronomy of Lightbringer.

Actually, Dunk is tall, strong, with a pure heart, the hero of a series of adventures... he looks like Hercules a lot, and the twelve labors of Hercules are filled with astronomical references.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Wow, Harras Harlaw has a sword called "Nightfall" with a moonstone pommel. Hats a great one, Mithras.

If all moonstones look like Sansa's hairnet, MOONSTONES are dark PURPLE.

That's a different hairnet actually. The poison serpents hairnet has "black amethysts" from Asshai. Which is actually even better for this theory.

Moonstone can be a number of colors including: blue, gray, white, pink, peach, green, and brown. The Romans believed it was made from solidified moon rays, and both they and the Greeks associated the stone with lunar deities. Worth looking into as something to add into the theory, I think.

From wikipedia entries related to moonstone:

The effect of adularescence, also commonly referred to as schiller or shiller, is best described as a milky, bluish luster or glow originating from below the surface of the gemstone. The schiller, appearing to move as the stone is turned (or as the light source is moved), gives the impression of lunar light floating on water (accounting for moonstone's name).^[1] Though white schiller is the most common, in rarer specimens, orange or blue lusters are produced.^[2]

Adularescence appears in numerous other gemstones, notably common opal, rose quartz and agate.

In opals it's called opalescence, but it's basically the same luster. And there was an Opal Emperor.

Will you be covering how Azor Ahai might have been changed from a bad guy to a good guy in legend? The real-life examples are good, but I think more evidence is needed within the story universe before making the assumption that AA was a bad guy. Sure he could be, and actually it would make sense that he needs to come back and clean up his mess, but there isn't enough to come to that conclusion yet.

So if the comet is going to bust the remaining moon, potentially causing a nuclear winter on Planetos...do they just not have a moon anymore after the smoke clears?

I thought there were more examples of the greasy black stone. The base of the lighthouse in Oldtown, the foundations of the Five Forts. Or are those just black stone and I'm getting mixed up?

Great work as usual. The only quibble I have is minor and probably doesn't make a difference to the theory anyway.

[Ygritte]

OOOH that’s a really good one! Home run! I’ve been looking at the Targ stories for astronomy metaphors, but hadn’t spotted this. :)

Well, I had a big boost from the "Jon is Lightbringer" post I think you linked at the beginning of your first thread. I read that some time ago and really liked it. I don't remember if any astronomy comes up in it, so if I plagiarized it, it's an accident. :)

And while we're on Rhaegar--this isn't really astronomy, but it's mythology--I really think one could go somewhere with his killer, Robert, as a mythological Stag King. I didn't really see it when I started reading, mostly because I don't like him, but it does kind of fit. He's the lusty, earthy guy who'd rather hunt than rule, and his death by boar is pretty much perfect.

[Crowfood's Daughter]

Will you be covering how Azor Ahai might have been changed from a bad guy to a good guy in legend? The real-life examples are good, but I think more evidence is needed within the story universe before making the assumption that AA was a bad guy. Sure he could be, and actually it would make sense that he needs to come back and clean up his mess, but there isn't enough to come to that conclusion yet.

I think GRRM did a great job of touching on the reversal of good guy/bad guy in the Dunk and Egg series. The Blackfyre rebellion is explored quite extensively through the eyes of the loyalists (aka traitors). In Contemporary Westeros Daemon is known historically as a false King who tore the Kingdom apart and brought years of war. If Daemon had won, the memory of him would be much, much different.

[Crowfood's Daughter]

Well, I had a big boost from the "Jon is Lightbringer" post I think you linked at the beginning of your first thread. I read that some time ago and really liked it. I don't remember if any astronomy comes up in it, so if I plagiarized it, it's an accident. :)

And while we're on Rhaegar--this isn't really astronomy, but it's mythology--I really think one could go somewhere with his killer, Robert, as a mythological Stag King. I didn't really see it when I started reading, mostly because I don't like him, but it does kind of fit. He's the lusty, earthy guy who'd rather hunt than rule, and his death by boar is pretty much perfect.

If we remember the tale of Apollo, he is the counterpart to his twin Artemis. Artemis is the goddess of the hunt and the moon and commonly symbolized by the stag.

[Crowfood's Daughter]

Sorry to post so late in the game....BUT just wanted to congratulate you on part II. Really well done and Im on board with what you have laid out for us so far.

[LmL]

If we remember the tale of Apollo, he is the counterpart to his twin Artemis. Artemis is the goddess of the hunt and the moon and commonly symbolized by the stag.

I wonder if there is crossover between Garth the Green and Artemis, or if we should be looking for a female counterpoint to Garth. I was already linking the sacrificial bull deity to the moon, although I forget exactly which legend it was.

Or rather, if Garth is playing the role of Artemis, I wonder if there was a female playing Apollo the first time? I do think that George gender flops mythological relationships at times, so that's always a possibility.

[LmL]

Sorry to post so late in the game....BUT just wanted to congratulate you on part II. Really well done and Im on board with what you have laid out for us so far.

Excellent, glad to hear. Was waiting to see what you thought. :) I'm gradually laying the groundwork for something a bit controversial I am going to put forward next time. Originally all three of these parts, the two done so far and the one yet to come, were crammed together in one essay, something like a very awkward elevator ride. I've been constantly pushing things back to streamline the first two parts, and the ungodly long anyway. But, Part 3 is gonna be a good one, I'm very excited about the potential heresy I have in mind.

Muah hah hah hah

[LmL]

Well, I had a big boost from the "Jon is Lightbringer" post I think you linked at the beginning of your first thread. I read that some time ago and really liked it. I don't remember if any astronomy comes up in it, so if I plagiarized it, it's an accident. :)

And while we're on Rhaegar--this isn't really astronomy, but it's mythology--I really think one could go somewhere with his killer, Robert, as a mythological Stag King. I didn't really see it when I started reading, mostly because I don't like him, but it does kind of fit. He's the lusty, earthy guy who'd rather hunt than rule, and his death by boar is pretty much perfect.

I think that does go somewhere because I keep seeing indications that that 'Garth' may have opposed the BSE in Westeros at some point. Crowfood's Daughter and Inare trying to figure that one out, and how the Selkies figure into things.

Getting back to an earlier thought about Moat Cailin having been made from huge black basalt blocks that may now look greasy, that sounds like whoever built Yeen in particular probably built Moat Cailin. Those are the two places where really huge square stone blocks are used.

If this is so, seems like the builders of Moat Cailin were thrown down by the children of the forest, the Marsh King, or both. The other possibility is that the Marsh King was from the race who built MC, and the crannogmen his descendants.

It's weird because some of the greasy stone spots don't seem like the same people built them. Yeen matches Moat Cailin, as I said, but Asshai seems totally different. Seastone Chair and Toad Isle statue fit with an aquatic humanoid race, but Yeen is far inland, albeit in a rainforest of a sort. My theory is that the oily black stones are all pieces of moon rock from the exploded bloodstone moon, but that could be wrong. Some of the greasy stone seems like it may be older than the LN. I am wondering if there is a common MECHANISM for making stone greasy looking, which was used at two different times in history. Keeping an open mind on this.

[Crowfood's Daughter]

I wonder if there is crossover between Garth the Green and Artemis, or if we should be looking for a female counterpoint to Garth. I was already linking the sacrificial bull deity to the moon, although I forget exactly which legend it was.

Or rather, if Garth is playing the role of Artemis, I wonder if there was a female playing Apollo the first time? I do think that George gender flops mythological relationships at times, so that's always a possibility.

Not a lot of strong ties to the moon in Greek Mythology unless you count the tale of Europa which is more closely tied to the sea. I know Mithras has a strong handle on the bull aspect and symbolism. IMO Garth is closest to Dionysus whose closest counter would be Hades in the legends. He is another one who goes through a cycle of death and rebirth and has had to descend to Hades on multiple occasions to free his loved ones.

[LmL]

Europa? You don't say. Isn't the Jupiter moon named Europa an Ice Moon? Small rocky core surrounded by tones of water and a crust of ice? Hmm that's interesting *nods head knowingly*

[Crowfood's Daughter]

Europa? You don't say. Isn't the Jupiter moon named Europa an Ice Moon? Small rocky core surrounded by tones of water and a crust of ice? Hmm that's interesting *nods head knowingly*

Yes, that would be the same one.

[LmL]

That's a different hairnet actually. The poison serpents hairnet has "black amethysts" from Asshai. Which is actually even better for this theory.

Moonstone can be a number of colors including: blue, gray, white, pink, peach, green, and brown. The Romans believed it was made from solidified moon rays, and both they and the Greeks associated the stone with lunar deities. Worth looking into as something to add into the theory, I think.

From wikipedia entries related to moonstone:

In opals it's called opalescence, but it's basically the same luster. And there was an Opal Emperor.

Will you be covering how Azor Ahai might have been changed from a bad guy to a good guy in legend? The real-life examples are good, but I think more evidence is needed within the story universe before making the assumption that AA was a bad guy. Sure he could be, and actually it would make sense that he needs to come back and clean up his mess, but there isn't enough to come to that conclusion yet.

So if the comet is going to bust the remaining moon, potentially causing a nuclear winter on Planetos...do they just not have a moon anymore after the smoke clears?

I thought there were more examples of the greasy black stone. The base of the lighthouse in Oldtown, the foundations of the Five Forts. Or are those just black stone and I'm getting mixed up?

Great work as usual. The only quibble I have is minor and probably doesn't make a difference to the theory anyway.

First off thanks very much and glad you liked it. The Hightower Fortress and Five Forts are made of FUSED stone, which the describe as the same as Valyrian fused stone excepting that the style isn't ornate and fancy. Some people are thinking of the Hoghtower Fort as greasy stone because the one Maester from the Iron Isles said it "bears a certain resemblance" to the Seastone chair. That COULD mean the Hightower Fort was greasy looking, but I am of the opinion they would have said as much if it were so. I think the similarity is that both types are made involving incredible heat and vitrification. The fused stone is made by dragon fire and sorcery, we know that for a fact. The greasy stone I am proposing as a magical form of "bloodstone" from the exploded moon, which was potentially "radiated" somehow in the initial explosion event, and then wold have been superheated in the atmosphere as it fell. The fused stone has heat applied in a controlled fashion by experts, and sorcery is used to manipulate the stone. The greasy bloodstone meteors, according to my hypothesis, had heat and possibly some sort of radiation applied in haphazard fashion three times - once during the explosion, once as it fell, and finally when it hit the ground, where the meteor is melted and spreads out in a bowl shaped crater.

[Ygritte]

It's weird because some of the greasy stone spots don't seem like the same people built them. Yeen matches Moat Cailin, as I said, but Asshai seems totally different. Seastone Chair and Toad Isle statue fit with an aquatic humanoid race, but Yeen is far inland, albeit in a rainforest of a sort. My theory is that the oily black stones are all pieces of moon rock from the exploded bloodstone moon, but that could be wrong. Some of the greasy stone seems like it may be older than the LN. I am wondering if there is a common MECHANISM for making stone greasy looking, which was used at two different times in history. Keeping an open mind on this.

I think people are building out of either melted moon-rock or out of rock that came from magma that welled up when the impacts happened, like this. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3171-earths-volcanism-linked-to-meteorite-impacts.html#.VQJLhY7Nnh4

I poked around a bit, and I could see there was some controversy about this idea, and IANAGeologist at all. But it doesn't really even matter whether it actually happens for real, just whether GRRM heard about it and thought it sounded cool.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I think GRRM did a great job of touching on the reversal of good guy/bad guy in the Dunk and Egg series. The Blackfyre rebellion is explored quite extensively through the eyes of the loyalists (aka traitors). In Contemporary Westeros Daemon is known historically as a false King who tore the Kingdom apart and brought years of war. If Daemon had won, the memory of him would be much, much different.

Which does not answer my question remotely. Everyone knows the winners of wars write the history. That does not explain how the guy who caused the biggest crisis in history somehow got turned instead into the savior of the world. Unless you're saying that the losers in the Long Night rewrote the story and successfully sold that line to the world, or at least the R'hllorists. If the Others pulled that off, I want their agent and publisher!

[LmL]

Which does not answer my question remotely. Everyone knows the winners of wars write the history. That does not explain how the guy who caused the biggest crisis in history somehow got turned instead into the savior of the world. Unless you're saying that the losers in the Long Night rewrote the story and successfully sold that line to the world, or at least the R'hllorists. If the Others pulled that off, I want their agent and publisher!

I think the R’hllorists are working for the same cause as the Bloodstone Emperor was. They may be dupes, perhaps of the Church of Starry Wisdom, or the Red Priests may have shaped this myth themselves to create good PR for their twisted form of fire magic.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I think the R’hllorists are working for the same cause as the Bloodstone Emperor was. They may be dupes, perhaps of the Church of Starry Wisdom, or the Red Priests may have shaped this myth themselves to create good PR for their twisted form of fire magic.

Thank you. That does help explain it.

[LmL]

Ok, so I found something so cool I am going to add this at the bottom of the OP. I had always meant to look up the supposed magical properties of heliotrope, aka bloodstone, but in the rush to get the thing out, I forgot. Boy, what a goldmine. Check this out:

• The Greeks named bloodstone ‘heliotrope,’ or ‘sun-turning,’ because they believed that when placed in the rays of the setting sun, or immersed in water, it turned the sun’s reflection red.
  

Only the brightest stars were visible, all to the west. A dull red glow lit the sky to the northeast, the color of a blood bruise. Tyron had never seen a bigger moon. Monstrous, swollen, it looked as if it had swallowed the sun and woken with a fever. Its twin, floating on the sea beyond the ship, shimmered red with every wave.

- ADwD, Tyrion

• Since ancient times, bloodstone has been one of the most important minerals for performing alchemy and magic. Alchemists trying to understand the mysteries of the universe, using heliotrope as a conduit between mankind and space.
  

Many scholars count the Bloodstone Emperor as the first High Priest of the sinister Church of Starry Wisdom, which persists to this day in many port cities throughout the known world.

- The World of Ice and Fire

“Quiathe?” Dany called. “Where are you, Quaithe?"

Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight.

​“Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. “The dragons know. Do you?"

- ADwD, Daenerys

Daenerys lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.

After that, for along time there was only pain, fire within her, and the whisperings of stars.

This last quote comes at the end of the miscarriage dream at the end of AGOT that I quoted from earlier, right after she sees the gemstone emperors of the Great Empire of the Dawn, hatches dragon wings, and flies. Note the “pain and fire within her” is more pregnancy language, further equating Daenerys with the bloodstone moon. I highlighted the bit about the polished black visor because it could be an allusion to the greasy black stone.

• In the Middle Ages, witches and magicians used it in ceremonies, believing that it could amplify the effect of magic words and rituals. I don’t need to pull a quote to rehash all the powerful sorcery associated with the Bloodstone Emperor.
  

• Astrologers believe that Heliotrope is associated with Saturn, the Moon and Venus, because of this it gives its owner the ability to influence people around them, to animate and inanimate nature. Wow! Home run! The Moon, and Venus. That’s pretty strong stuff. Saturn is one of the seven wanderers, although I haven’t figured out which of the seven equals which planet, so we’ll keep an eye on that. And that bit about animating and in animating sounds a bit like waking dragons from stone, or perhaps human-animal-selkie-whatever hybrid experimentation.
  

• Bloodstone is believed to have magical properties controlling the weather by averting lightning, conjuring storms or summoning rain. This calls to mind Euron Greyjoy, as well as the Grey King himself. Interesting, as I have been seeing some connections between the Grey King and the Bloodstone Empire. Additionally, bloodstone was popular with mariners and sailors, which makes sense since the greasy stone is usually found close to water, and in far flung locations, implying that the Bloodstone Empire (and thus the Great Empire of the Dawn before him) was a maritime-capable culture.
  

This is quoted directly from themagicofcrystals.com :

Bloodstone is aptly named due to it’s powerful connection to both the Heart Energy Center and the physical heart. It is as though it emits the energies of strength and power and transmits them directly to the heart center of the body. It is then easy to be aware of the role of pumping blood throughout the entire body that this organ provides.

It is as though Bloodstone bypasses emotional energies and focuses on practical, predictable processes. Move, circulate, pump, clear, flow, invigorate~all appropriate words to describe the workhorse drive of this crystal. This makes vitality one of it’s primary properties.

• And now we have a different kind of connotation, one that squares with “grandmother moon” and “mother of dragons.” Bloodstone is seen as a nurturing mother goddess stone, helpful in easing misunderstandings or difficulties with mothers or mothering issues. It also assists human and animal mothers in the bonding process after a traumatic birth or one where mother and baby were separated for a time.
  

• Finally, Bloodstone has all kinds of associations with healing. It was ground into power and used as a ‘coagulant.’ Poeople even simply touched it to wounds, believing it would stop the flow. It seems our friend the Bloodstone Emperor has twisted and inverted this property, as the greasy black stone has the opposite of a healing effect. This is consistent with my idea that he has twisted fire magic, and with he idea of the Lion of Night as a ‘Night Sun.’ This will be an important theme for Part 3.
  

[Equilibrium]

First off thanks very much and glad you liked it. The Hightower Fortress and Five Forts are made of FUSED stone, which the describe as the same as Valyrian fused stone excepting that the style isn't ornate and fancy. Some people are thinking of the Hoghtower Fort as greasy stone because the one Maester from the Iron Isles said it "bears a certain resemblance" to the Seastone chair. That COULD mean the Hightower Fort was greasy looking, but I am of the opinion they would have said as much if it were so. I think the similarity is that both types are made involving incredible heat and vitrification. The fused stone is made by dragon fire and sorcery, we know that for a fact. The greasy stone I am proposing as a magical form of "bloodstone" from the exploded moon, which was potentially "radiated" somehow in the initial explosion event, and then wold have been superheated in the atmosphere as it fell. The fused stone has heat applied in a controlled fashion by experts, and sorcery is used to manipulate the stone. The greasy bloodstone meteors, according to my hypothesis, had heat and possibly some sort of radiation applied in haphazard fashion three times - once during the explosion, once as it fell, and finally when it hit the ground, where the meteor is melted and spreads out in a bowl shaped crater.

I thought of this too, ancient civilizations built their structures from fallen black stone by carving it, then Valyrians or proto-Valyrians started making their own greasy black stone by fusing it essentially by recreating conditions of atmospheric entry by magic and dragonfire, then they became better at it and started making ornate shapes out of it.

Also just to pitch in about Lucifer, he is not really Lucifer his name was translated in Latin, his original name in Hebrew is Helel, the same morningstar deity that you have mentioned. Also in Bible devil is called by bunch of other names so Lucifer doesn't mean much, it was just one of the name of the Baal supreme god of pagans surrounding Israel that was used to denote devil like Baal, Beelzebub, Belphegor and such. Other names used to denoted devil are Levithian who is the great sea dragon wrecking destruction and Astaroth after goddess Astarte (gender swap, see) who also

was connected with fertility, sexuality, and war. Her symbols were the lion, the horse, the sphinx, the dove, and a star within a circle indicating the planet Venus. She has been known as the deified evening star

And her statue also has amethyst eyes http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Statuette_Goddess_Louvre_AO20127.jpg/640px-Statuette_Goddess_Louvre_AO20127.jpg

[Frey family reunion]

Sweet, great catch. I thought there was a description of the Moat Cailin stones as greasy somewhere, so thanks. If they are basalt, that could mean one of a few things:

1.) any black stone that is vitrified may described as greasy

2.) greasy stone is basalt and not bloodstone

3.) stone becomes greasy looking through some sort of magical process, which may or may not be separate from the explosion of the moon and descent of moon rocks

I do not think Dawn is made from the Bloodstone the Emperor worshipped. No way. Dawn is made from (hypothesis) a piece of the original comet itself which broke apart, likely during the first forging or break-up of the comet. I talked about this in my first essay. Im going to go pretty deep in to the sword compositions in the next part.

I think a sword WAS made form Bloodstone, but it isnt Dawn. I think there were two swords which were or could be associated with being light bringer, both made from fallen meteors. I mean... you cant have a good fight with just one magic sword. You need two.

I would add that if in fact the Oily black structures, are primarily basalt, then that does support your notion that they could be moon rocks, since moon rocks are primarily basalt. So the question would be what is causing them to look oily?