Evidences for Hybrids from the Main Series

[yolkboy]

That would seem to require that she never really knew her CotF parent, though, or she would have noticed the difference and not made the claim (or allowed Jenny to make it). Yet she would still need to know something of CotF appearances. She even went to court, where maesters had the full descriptions available, yet apparently maintained the claim. I'd rate this as possible, but unlikely.

He tends not to drop those hints right away, though. You don't get any clues about Kirby Plumm in TMK in the first few scenes you see him. Same with GlamMance. (Other than GlamRattleshirt's dying shrieks.) The whole Duncan/Jenny/GoHH tale is one of the most mysterious, least completely explained stories in the work. There's still time to see GoHH again. And trying to outguess GRRM is risky. He has been known to withhold evidence to increase suspense/drama.

Why would anyone glamour themselves as a tiny albino?

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Why would anyone glamour themselves as a tiny albino?

ETA clarity

A CotF would to keep from being killed by randomly passing diehard followers of the Seven. The CotF remember the Andal pogrom. At court, under Jenny and Duncan's protection, it would be safe to put forth the claim. The reason for that particular form might have to due with the amount of effort involved. Minimal change, minimal effort.

[Dorian Martell]

Assuming that GoHH is Jenny of Oldstone's woods witch friend (which seems to be a sure thing) -

Jenny claimed her friend was CotF. The size, eyes, and abilities match, but she lacks the claws and dappled skin. She might be employing a glamour. The question I have about the possibility of her being a hybrid is, why claim to be pure CotF? Why not simply claim a CotF parent? What's the motivation behind the deception? (I have honestly never heard anyone provide an explanation. Most simply reject the glamour possibility, so see hybrid as the only possibility left.)

Albinism is magical in ASOIAF. Bloodraven, Ghost and the Ghost of high heart. Neither need be hybrids to be magical. We know who Bloodraven's parents are

[White Ravens]

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Biter is not part squisher?

I always assumed that he was a big ugly psychopath who sharpened his teeth.

[White Ravens]

Interesting speculation about Ghost having a different sire than the rest of the Stark Direwolves, but do we really need to imagine Bloodraven fucking the dog? He is a mysterious character with ambiguous motives who is known to have practiced sorcery, but that doesn't mean he is down with bestiality.

[yolkboy]

Interesting speculation about Ghost having a different sire than the rest of the Stark Direwolves, but do we really need to imagine Bloodraven fucking the dog? He is a mysterious character with ambiguous motives who is known to have practiced sorcery, but that doesn't mean he is down with bestiality.

Ha, sorry for that thought :blink: .

PS...Varamyr gets mounted whilst warging.

Haggon would have called it abomination, but Varamyr had often slipped inside her skin as she was being mounted by One Eye.

[Mithras]

Interesting speculation about Ghost having a different sire than the rest of the Stark Direwolves, but do we really need to imagine Bloodraven fucking the dog? He is a mysterious character with ambiguous motives who is known to have practiced sorcery, but that doesn't mean he is down with bestiality.

BR does not look like he could perform just before the series started.

If anything, a bloodmagic ritual is a possibility. There is a root going into the thigh of BR. Perhaps the roots can extract some substance from Bloodraven and the CotF could use it to impregnate the direwolf.

[Avlonnic]

Rorge could fit the description of a part-Ibbenese. This wiki excerpt describes Rorge: "Rorge is described as squat, bulky, and hairy, with black hair covering most of his body. He is also described as thick and powerful."

The Wiki and the World Book reference the Ibbenese:

The Ibbenese are usually described as hairy and squat, with rasping voices.
Yandel mentions they stand apart from other races of mankind and goes into detail describing them as a heavy people broad about the chest and shoulders, seldom standing taller than five and a half feet, with thick, short legs, and long arms. ... they are ferociously strong ... Ibbenese are also the most hirsute people in the known world, with dark and wiry hair. Ibbenese men are heavily bearded and covered in body hair on arms, legs, chests, and backs.

According to Yandel, the Ibbenese men can father children upon the women of other races, but products of these unions are often malformed and inevitably sterile, like mules.

-> There are Ibbenese ships in Kings Landing frequently.

-> There are Ibbenese serving with the Brave Companions.

-> Davos meets a 1/2-Ibbenese captain (Casso Mogat) near Sisterton who was fathered by an Ibbenese sailor with a Westerosi prostitute.

[yolkboy]

BR does not look like he could perform just before the series started.

I was suggesting BR warged a direwolf and then made Ghost with the mother. Of course, unless there's some fantasy rule bending at play, it wouldn't account for the albinism being passed on so it was just silliness.

But I do agree with something you said earlier about a possible BR warg connection with Ghost, especially upon finding the horn and dragonglass cache.

[Mithras]

“Under the sea, men marry fishes.” Patchface did a little dance step, jingling his bells. “They do, they do, they do.”

Lol.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

:) See now this is a good use of your time Mithras!

Much better than your usual threads, "I wish Dany would be eaten by piranhas and get Ebola simultaneously while dying in childbirth".

I like the OP, I think the walrus thing is a bit of a stretch, but many of the others are 100% feasible based on the writing. :)

ETA: lol, as I was posting this you were on another thread stating she would die in childbirth again. :crying:

[LmL]

Biter is a Merling for sure. Merlings are the big ones with pointy teeth - the Squishers.

Crowfood's daughter did a great thread on Selkies, the two of you should compare notes.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/116518-the-walrus-men-origins-of-the-wildlings/

Mithras, I'd like to suggest something to you. I think the Hammer of the Waters which broke the arm of Dorne was a meteor impact from the moon destruction at the time of the Long Night, but even if that's wrong... Consider that before the breaking, the shivering sea was isolated from the summer and sunset seas. All the sea creatures were separated by that isthmus. But once it was shattered... Sea creatures isolated from each other for all time suddenly get to fight or fuck, who ever they prefer. If I'm right and there's a bloodstone meteor under the water at the straights there (perhaps near the Stepstone islamd named "bloodstone," that's just a suggestion...), perhaps the sea creatures were affected / warped by its magic, and that's got somehti to do with the sudden wave of selkie-human and Merling-human sexing that was happening.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Biter was fighting with dogs in the pits IIRC. The squisher theory came up before and it hyped me tbh but nah he has pointy teeth because he was fighting with dogs.

[LmL]

He’s got other squishiness about him as well.

[Mithras]

Biter is a Merling for sure. Merlings are the big ones with pointy teeth - the Squishers.

Crowfood's daughter did a great thread on Selkies, the two of you should compare notes.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/116518-the-walrus-men-origins-of-the-wildlings/

Mithras, I'd like to suggest something to you. I think the Hammer of the Waters which broke the arm of Dorne was a meteor impact from the moon destruction at the time of the Long Night, but even if that's wrong... Consider that before the breaking, the shivering sea was isolated from the summer and sunset seas. All the sea creatures were separated by that isthmus. But once it was shattered... Sea creatures isolated from each other for all time suddenly get to fight or fuck, who ever they prefer. If I'm right and there's a bloodstone meteor under the water at the straights there (perhaps near the Stepstone islamd named "bloodstone," that's just a suggestion...), perhaps the sea creatures were affected / warped by its magic, and that's got somehti to do with the sudden wave of selkie-human and Merling-human sexing that was happening.

And so they did, gathering in their hundreds (some say on the Isle of Faces), and calling on their old gods with song and prayer and grisly sacrifice (a thousand captive men were fed to the weirwood, one version of the tale goes, whilst another claims the children used the blood of their own young). And the old gods stirred, and giants awoke in the earth, and all of Westeros shook and trembled. Great cracks appeared in the earth, and hills and mountains collapsed and were swallowed up. And then the seas came rushing in, and the Arm of Dorne was broken and shattered by the force of the water, until only a few bare rocky islands remained above the waves. The Summer Sea joined the narrow sea, and the bridge between Essos and Westeros vanished for all time.

Or so the legend says.

Most scholars do agree that Essos and Westeros were once joined; a thousand tales and runic records tell of the crossing of the First Men. Today the seas divide them, so plainly some version of the event the Dornish call the Breaking must have occurred. Did it happen in the space of a single day, however, as the songs would have it? Was it the work of the children of the forest and the sorcery of their greenseers? These things are less certain. Archmaester Cassander suggests elsewise in his Song of the Sea: How the Lands Were Severed, arguing that it was not the singing of greenseers that parted Westeros from Essos but rather what he calls the Song of the Sea— a slow rising of the waters that took place over centuries, not in a single day, and was caused by a series of long, hot summers and short, warm winters that melted the ice in the frozen lands beyond the Shivering Sea, causing the oceans to rise.

I think the Breaking is an important event and many scenarios can be proposed. I am curious about the Song of the Sea. The CotF are those who sing the Song of the Earth. Then who really broke the Arm? Merlings?

[LmL]

And so they did, gathering in their hundreds (some say on the Isle of Faces), and calling on their old gods with song and prayer and grisly sacrifice (a thousand captive men were fed to the weirwood, one version of the tale goes, whilst another claims the children used the blood of their own young). And the old gods stirred, and giants awoke in the earth, and all of Westeros shook and trembled. Great cracks appeared in the earth, and hills and mountains collapsed and were swallowed up. And then the seas came rushing in, and the Arm of Dorne was broken and shattered by the force of the water, until only a few bare rocky islands remained above the waves. The Summer Sea joined the narrow sea, and the bridge between Essos and Westeros vanished for all time.

Or so the legend says.

Most scholars do agree that Essos and Westeros were once joined; a thousand tales and runic records tell of the crossing of the First Men. Today the seas divide them, so plainly some version of the event the Dornish call the Breaking must have occurred. Did it happen in the space of a single day, however, as the songs would have it? Was it the work of the children of the forest and the sorcery of their greenseers? These things are less certain. Archmaester Cassander suggests elsewise in his Song of the Sea: How the Lands Were Severed, arguing that it was not the singing of greenseers that parted Westeros from Essos but rather what he calls the Song of the Sea a slow rising of the waters that took place over centuries, not in a single day, and was caused by a series of long, hot summers and short, warm winters that melted the ice in the frozen lands beyond the Shivering Sea, causing the oceans to rise.

I think the Breaking is an important event and many scenarios can be proposed. I am curious about the Song of the Sea. The CotF are those who sing the Song of the Earth. Then who really broke the Arm? Merlings?

Well I still say it was a meteorite that broke the Arm of Dorne - I'm as certain of that as I am of anything - but as for a song of the sea, there's the book about the Ironborn "songs the drowned men sing," and then there's old Rodrick the Reader:

Asha climbed quickly, to the fifth story and the room where her uncle read. Not that there are any rooms where he does not read. Lord Rodrik was seldom seen without a book in hand, be it in the privy, on the deck of his Sea Song , or whilst holding audience. Asha had oft seen him reading on his high seat beneath the silver scythes. He would listen to each case as it was laid before him, pronounce his judgment and read a bit whilst his captain- of- guards went to bring in the next supplicant. She found him hunched over a table by a window, surrounded by parchment scrolls that might have come from Valyria before its Doom, and heavy leather- bound books with bronze- and- iron hasps. Beeswax candles as thick and tall as a mans arm burned on either side of where he sat, on ornate iron holders. Lord Rodrik Harlaw was neither fat nor slim; neither tall nor short; neither ugly nor handsome. His hair was brown, as were his eyes, though the short, neat beard he favored had gone grey. All in all, he was an ordinary man, distinguished only by his love of written words, which so many ironborn found unmanly and perverse. Nuncle. She closed the door behind her. What reading was so urgent that you leave your guests without a host? Archmaester Marwyns Book of Lost Books. He lifted his gaze from the page to study her. Hotho brought me a copy from Oldtown. He has a daughter he would have me wed. Lord Rodrik tapped the book with a long nail. See here? Marwyn claims to have found three pages of Signs and Portents , visions written down by the maiden daughter of Aenar Targaryen before the Doom came to Valyria.

the Ironborn are very good bets to be GEotD descendents, because they have advanced maritime skill that sticks out from the other First Men like a sore thumb. They are covered in grim reaper and death iconography, an opposite to Garth the Green and the various antler folks out there (Sacred Order of the Green Men). The Green men sew, the Ironborn reap. They are death incarnate. And the Grey King stole fire from the storm god - that could be a memory of a dark ruler harnessing the power of a falling meteor, a flaming tree is a very similar motif to a flaming sword. He married a mermaid - and the BSE seems connected to aquatic people's or Deep Ones via the greasy black stone locations. He slew the sea dragon - what's a sea dragon? If a flaming meteorite is a dragon, might not a sea dragon be a meteorite that falls into the sea and causes big tsunamis? The sea dragon "drowns whole island in her wroth," that's clearly not an animal. What drowns islands?

All of this is consistent with the Ironborn being originally part of the BSE's navy. I think the sea dragon they remember was the one which struck the arm of Dorne. An alternate hypothesis is that the moon rock meteorite impacts triggered volcanism in various places (this happens in real life). Looking at old Wyck and great Wyck, great Wyck is a crescent shape, and old Wyck a dot in the middle of the empty space. That's a stereotypical formation of volcanic island that erupted (creating a below sea level cauldron crater, and the crescent shape remnant of the island), then started to grow back from the crater, forming an island. Krakatoa does this every few thousand years or whatever. So the sea dragon could be a volcanic island, as it fits the same clues.

But still - the "Drowned God?" Do we know of a god who fell from the sky and drowned? Yes, we do. The drowned God could be the corpse of the dead moon god / goddess.

As for hybrids, I have an idea that the moon rocks themselves are infused with some kind do twisted magic, causing the mutations necessary for human - animal hybridization to be possible or necessary. If that rock sitting under the water of the straights of Dorne, it could be corrupting the sea life and causing them to seek humans to breed with somehow. This is an early hypothesis so take from it what you will.

[LmL]

One more thing about Rodrick and house Harlaw:

Lord Rodrik’s high seat was vacant. Two scythes of beaten silver crossed above it, so huge that even a giant would have difficulty wielding them, but beneath were only empty cushions.

Harris Harlaw posses a Balyrian steel sword called Nightfall, which even has a moonstone pommel.

[Mithras]

What is interesting is that although the TV show made a misshapen idol of Drowned God in HoB&W, in the books, Drowned God has no temples, no holy books, no idols carved in his likeness. However, Sauron Salt-Tongue once said. “We came from beneath those seas, from the watery halls of the Drowned God who made us in his likeness"

[lidsa]

Doesn't Tyrion see a satyr in Yezzan's grotesquerie?

[Mithras]

Doesn't Tyrion see a satyr in Yezzan's grotesquerie?

Ah, very good. I'll be digging them.