Nyrhex Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Ser Justin Massey strikes me as this. He is notably less pious than the rest of Stannis' Knights, to the extent where he accidentally says 'gods' and occasionally says things which are very borderline treacherous. There is nothing treacherous about not being overly devout, nor is greed and ambition the only reasons for people to convert. Horpe is Stannis's second in command and Stannis says outright that he is fully aware that he is only paying lip tax infront of Horpe, as a means to show Asha that everyone want Theon dead, not just the Northmen and the Queensmen. FFS, we see brothers of the NW convert as well, and they have nothing to gain from it. Aside from that there is the whole BWB and the small folk that follow them where the red faith spreads freely. Massey and Horpe pay the lip tax as long as it suits them, though they are both high in Stannis' council because of past connections - Massey was Robert's squire and his house falls under Dragonstone's overlordship, and Horpe is a Stormlander who was once considered for Robert's KG. Suggs just likes fire. Farring seems to actually care about it all, and Devan (real shocker) has a thing for our fiery redhead. The Florents have used it to gain favor, though it's not doing anything - Axell was demoted, Alester recieved the Handship and Imry becamse admiral for being the first to bend the knee, not for taking the new god. The first lost his head all the same and the latter died for his king in battle. The 50 guys left with Selyse and the 12 guys left with Mel are also not all there for being fanatics or for paying lip tax. Some are the ones Stannis simply did not want on his march, one is blind, another a craven, and two are drunks. The "Queensmen" faction seems very overhyped compared with what it actually is - A relatively small amount of people (less than half of Stannis' host at the Wall, and about a tenth of his current host, not including the Wildlings who have declared for him under Sigorn and house Karstark's garrison. It's enough people for Stannis to go ahead with the burtnings of the cannibals, but for all the important bits he uses people of established loyalty and competence - Davos is his Hand, Massey and Horpe have established loyalty and a past service with the Baratheons and become Stannis' Plan B in Braavos and his second in command respectively, the people Stannis trusts and names to Davos are the King's Men who take Edric and the only one that stayed behind is the Bastard of Nightsong, the guy that was promoted to castellan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reginald blackfield Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 There is nothing treacherous about not being overly devout, nor is greed and ambition the only reasons for people to convert. Horpe is Stannis's second in command and Stannis says outright that he is fully aware that he is only paying lip tax infront of Horpe, as a means to show Asha that everyone want Theon dead, not just the Northmen and the Queensmen. FFS, we see brothers of the NW convert as well, and they have nothing to gain from it. Aside from that there is the whole BWB and the small folk that follow them where the red faith spreads freely. Massey and Horpe pay the lip tax as long as it suits them, though they are both high in Stannis' council because of past connections - Massey was Robert's squire and his house falls under Dragonstone's overlordship, and Horpe is a Stormlander who was once considered for Robert's KG. Suggs just likes fire. Farring seems to actually care about it all, and Devan (real shocker) has a thing for our fiery redhead. The Florents have used it to gain favor, though it's not doing anything - Axell was demoted, Alester recieved the Handship and Imry becamse admiral for being the first to bend the knee, not for taking the new god. The first lost his head all the same and the latter died for his king in battle. The 50 guys left with Selyse and the 12 guys left with Mel are also not all there for being fanatics or for paying lip tax. Some are the ones Stannis simply did not want on his march, one is blind, another a craven, and two are drunks. The "Queensmen" faction seems very overhyped compared with what it actually is - A relatively small amount of people (less than half of Stannis' host at the Wall, and about a tenth of his current host, not including the Wildlings who have declared for him under Sigorn and house Karstark's garrison. It's enough people for Stannis to go ahead with the burtnings of the cannibals, but for all the important bits he uses people of established loyalty and competence - Davos is his Hand, Massey and Horpe have established loyalty and a past service with the Baratheons and become Stannis' Plan B in Braavos and his second in command respectively, the people Stannis trusts and names to Davos are the King's Men who take Edric and the only one that stayed behind is the Bastard of Nightsong, the guy that was promoted to castellan.I never said not being pious made you treacherous. I am agnostic in real life, that does not make me a traitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny717 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 In the tyrion chapter adwd page355. In Volant is with mormont."Is that a slave tatoo?" Tyrion asked.The knight nodded."the red temple buys them as children and makes them priests or temple prostitutes or warriors. Look there". He pointed at the steps, where a lone of men in ornate armor and orange cloaks stood before the temple doors, clasping spears with points like writhing flames. "The fiery hand. The Lord of Light's sacred soldiers, defenders of the temple."'Fire knights'. "And how many fingers does this hand have,pray?".-tyrion"One thousand. Never more never less. A new flame is kindled for every one that gutters out."-jorahObviously these knights have different traditions and what not, it's basically the same idea. Men who trained all their life then took an oath to protect their beliefs and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I've always been surprised the Red Faith hasn't spread more. Look how crazy people go in our history and present over religion. Whereas here is a man waving an actual magic sword and everyone is like "meh". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reginald blackfield Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I've always been surprised the Red Faith hasn't spread more. Look how crazy people go in our history and present over religion. Whereas here is a man waving an actual magic sword and everyone is like "meh".I find it stupid that no one between Asshai and Volantis follows the religion, how does it have such a large gap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Stannis' sword isn't magical and everyone knows (or should know) it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I find it stupid that no one between Asshai and Volantis follows the religion, how does it have such a large gap?Between Volantis and Asshai there are only:- Valyrian ruins, Mantarys - we don't know if they still folow Old Valyrian religions or something other - Slaver's Bay, Ghiscari ruins - have their own religion- Yi Ti, Leng - have their own religions and don't seem to be tolerant for foreigners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Because most of them converted out greed and ambition? there are a few ok knight of red faith Jusin Massery - seem to be saner than other Red Faith knights Brus Bucker-he stay loyal to Stannis after BW and he gave Stannis' kid her first dance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Stannis' sword isn't magical and everyone knows (or should know) itOnly Maester Aemon one of the wisest and knowledgeable men in the realm picks up that it might not be the real lightbringer.Regardless it is a magic sword of sorts having an unearthly bright glow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Only Maester Aemon one of the wisest and knowledgeable men in the realm picks up that it might not be the real lightbringer.Regardless it is a magic sword of sorts having an unearthly bright glow. The way people accept or refuse to accept things like magic, AAR etc is mainly poor writing when GRRM tries to play with what characters know or do not know. Renly is murdered in his tent and the accused is a woman who was in love with him, shortly after he was married and he is gay to boot? She then fled the scene with Catelyn Stark shortly after Renly had demanded her son bend the knee or he would be dealt with like Stannis here? Stannis used black magic, 'tis elementary my dear Tyrion. This book here says that the sword was as warm as a person, and in battle it somehow managed to boil a monster's blood? It was forged using magic? Surely, it needs to be warm enough to boil blood at all times, even in the scabbared, and even to the person that wields it, because it's not as if it's a magic sword that was forged to harm the Others, right? Clearly a fake sword Jon, have no fear, this man would likely burn me and this babe for a false god, with it's clearly false visions that can tell banners of lords gathering thousands of miles from here. Oh no, not you and your filthy 8,000 year old Stark commoners blood. It is clearly I who should use our few resources to flee across the sea to warmer lands, I still have so much life in me! The logical leaps that characters make, even if to the right conclusions, are at times simply too great and are clearly cutting corners on GRRM's part. The parts that should be common knowledge are sometimes a mystery to most, and sometimes international news and the lineage of past kings is the topic of the day in some shady tavern on a rock in the middle of the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Dogg Pound Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Stannis had to let them keep their titles to win them over, but I'm sure he'll eventually create a new way to anoint knights that worship the lord of light. But first he actually has to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Stannis had to let them keep their titles to win them over, but I'm sure he'll eventually create a new way to anoint knights that worship the lord of light. But first he actually has to win. Stannis doesn't care one whiff. He's basically atheistic and uses Mel simply for propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragons Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Stannis doesn't care one whiff. He's basically atheistic and uses Mel simply for propaganda. That is Right! He is just uses this Pagan religion to hold of the Iron throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quwertzuiopp Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 It is stated in one of the first two novels that the belivers of the old gods can't become knights because they can not swear holy oathes like that. Their religion forbids that. So, if your religion allows you to make that kind of holy oath, you can become a knight. It originated with the Andals, but it is also stated that EVERYONE can become a knight. The old gods belivers just exclude themselves because the old gods say no to that kind of oath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Creeping Knight Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 It is stated in one of the first two novels that the belivers of the old gods can't become knights because they can not swear holy oathes like that. Their religion forbids that. So, if your religion allows you to make that kind of holy oath, you can become a knight. It originated with the Andals, but it is also stated that EVERYONE can become a knight. The old gods belivers just exclude themselves because the old gods say no to that kind of oath.Ser Rodrik Cassel was on the North and presumably the old gods, yet he's knighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny717 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think it's customary not to be knighted, but some warriors grow up hearing the stories of heroic knights, and want to be knighted anyway. Bran is an example, always dreaming of being a knight. I think most northerners just don't see the point of it, but no one frowns upon northerners who are knighted. Or maybe if they do deeds of honor in the south, the southron lords knight them as reward, where as northern lords don't bother with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Mando Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think its safe to say that the faith of the the red god is not directly from asshai. It may have its roots there but twoiaf said that it was only developed as the legend of azor ahai swept westwards fromthere. I guess most believers of the red god are in the free cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charity Brighton Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Which knights would support Stannis' cause if he told them "Welcome to my army, but wait.... You have to give up your knighthood and other titles! .....Wait! Where are you going? " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Ser Rodrik Cassel was on the North and presumably the old gods, yet he's knighted. Also, in ADWD Ser Bartimus admits to Davos that he still follows the old gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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