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Daenerys is the Amethyst Empress Reborn


Durran Durrandon

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It's one of the first things that came to mind when I read the legend.

It also fits in with the cyclical nature of things in ASOIAF - themes seems to repeat themselves in different ways. It's never quite the same but the similarities are always there.

Yes that’s part of the main premise of my “As above, so below” theory. The celstial events of the LN created a pattern that manifests over and over again through the history of Planets... likely until it is resolved.

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Something similar nags at me. Howevet, the First Men came to Westetos before the Long Night. Clearly a contingent of Dawns followed that meteorite to Starfall and founded the Daynes. But the Targaryans had the prophecy of TPtwP, and the Ghost of Highheart's prophecy supports this, so I believe they are the direct descendents of Amethyst Empress. The Dawns who traveled to Dorne were either am offshoot of the Amethyst Empress' line or more likely led by BSE on his path yo become the Last Hero.

I see the time frame of events like that:

First the God-on-Earth rule. Total bliss and harmony. One single empire, with all men within the frontiers given by TWoIaF. Duration 10,000 years.

The God-on-Earth leaves and his sons and heirs follow. But unrest follows shortly. Men go to Sothoryos and other places, like Pyke and Oldtown. Start worshiping foreign gods. Do evil things, create the oily stone which increases the presence of R'hllor, create hybrids. But they not yet have enough power to create dragons, or to overthrow the Emperors. Duration 5,000 years, more or less.

At some point they manage to call down the Stone. It fell near Ashai, the greatest city of the Empire. The Amethyst brother fell to its power, murder his sister and starts the real evil. The FM flee to Westeros. Duration 2,000 years, more or less. I know it is a bit long, but:

Despairing of the evil that had been unleashed on earth ... and the Lion of Night came forth in all his wroth to punish the wickedness of men.

I would believe the LN didn't come immediately after the Blood Betrayal. Despairing needs some time. And at least, it requested the time for the GO come also. The LN was not the doing of the Stone, neither the GO I would believe. After the LN, Sothoryos and Ashai were mostly abandoned, the humankind and the Great Empire scattered.

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Yes that’s part of the main premise of my “As above, so below” theory. The celstial events of the LN created a pattern that manifests over and over again through the history of Planets... likely until it is resolved.

I've been discuss this theory with another poster for quite some time now. We've believed that these events are leading to the breaking of the cycle. If you take Dany and Jon who you have been discussing in this thread you have two people who have reversed centuries old practices instituted by their ancestors.

You have Dany freeing slaves (the Valerians where the ultimate slavers) and you have Jon welcoming the Wildings back to the main Westeros when it most likely his Stark ancestors who left them or sent them beyond the Wall and who have kept them from crossing the Wall.

They are breaking threads and trying to fix the mistakes of their ancestors. This is just one example and I'm sure we can find others.

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It is my belief as well that the repercussion from the first Dance (the eventual extinction of the dragons) precipitated the coming of the Long Night (the current one).

I would rather believe the opposite. One is strong when the other is strong. Currently, both dragons and Others are strong. It would explain the theories about the masters trying to eliminate the dragons. They were trying to eliminate the Others and avoid the LN by suppressing their opposing force.

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I would rather believe the opposite. One is strong when the other is strong. Currently, both dragons and Others are strong. It would explain the theories about the masters trying to eliminate the dragons. They were trying to eliminate the Others and avoid the LN by suppressing their opposing force.

But they did eliminate the dragons and yet the Other still awoke prior to Dany awakening of the dragons. So the elimination of the dragons did not prevent the new Long Night from returning.

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I've been discuss this theory with another poster for quite some time now. We've believed that these events are leading to the breaking of the cycle. If you take Dany and Jon who you have been discussing in this thread you have two people who have reversed centuries old practices instituted by their ancestors.

You have Dany freeing slaves (the Valerians where the ultimate slavers) and you have Jon welcoming the Wildings back to the main Westeros when it most likely his Stark ancestors who left them or sent them beyond the Wall and who have kept them from crossing the Wall.

They are breaking threads and trying to fix the mistakes of their ancestors. This is just one example and I'm sure we can find others.

I really like your thinking here - did you read my two Astronomy of Planets threads? If not, I’d be curious what you think of them in light of this concept.

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But they did eliminate the dragons and yet the Other still awoke prior to Dany awakening of the dragons. So the elimination of the dragons did not prevent the new Long Night from returning.

I didn't say they were right, or that was sufficient. Maybe the returning in strength of the Others made the dragons possible. Anyway, the clock was ticking for some time (some very long time I would believe), the LN was coming, and nothing could have stopped the return of the dragons and the Others.

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I really like your thinking here - did you read my two Astronomy of Planets threads? If not, I’d be curious what you think of them in light of this concept.

I haven't read it yet but I'll give it a read this week and let you know what I think. It's just interesting to see where this new generation is breaking the mold. How they will break the cycle. Now, I do think that we should take into consideration that this might fix the natural disorder of things but the human disorder is a completely different can of warms and not easily fixed.

To me Dany is a very different character, She doesn't actually fit into the mold of the usual tropes. She the sister of the exiled prince/king, who's family is in direct opposition to the "heroes" of the story, the Starks. She was never meant to amount to anything but to get married and be a doubtful wife. Of course we know her story and it's unorthodox to say the least.

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I haven't read it yet but I'll give it a read this week and let you know what I think. It's just interesting to see where this new generation is breaking the mold. How they will break the cycle. Now, I do think that we should take into consideration that this might fix the natural disorder of things but the human disorder is a completely different can of warms and not easily fixed.

To me Dany is a very different character, She doesn't actually fit into the mold of the usual tropes. She the sister of the exiled prince/king, who's family is in direct opposition to the "heroes" of the story, the Starks. She was never meant to amount to anything but to get married and be a doubtful wife. Of course we know her story and it's unorthodox to say the least.

Awesome, the basic premise is that the Azor Ahai / Lightbrineger myth is tied to the legend of the cracking of the moon to pour forth a million dragons, and that they both represent a mythological remembrance of a world-shaking celestial event which was the cause of the Long Night. The pattern created by this event in turn plays out on the ground, in sort of a fictional-astrological kind of mirror action. The idea of the earth mirroring the heavens is of course the famous hermetic concept of “as above, so below,” and I believe George had it in mind. Thus, the Bloodstone Emperor’s betrayal of his sister, the Amethyst Empress, is actually the same story as Azor Ahai, just told from the reverse perspective with different connotations, and it represents the first terrestrial maniferstion of the celestial event. Subsequently, the pattern plays out over and over again in various ways, which explains why several people seem to fit the criteria for Azor Ahai reborn, and why Lightbringer is interpreted to be anything from a literal flaming sword to a comet to person to The Wall to the dragons and on and on... they are all manifesting a similar pattern in some way, or a similar ‘set’ of patterns.

TWOIAF repeats this patterning almost every section. I hope to eventually work my way up to going through some of that and showing how it confirms the celestial pattern.

Please do let me know what you think, and if you have any threads to point me to, I’d love to read them. :)

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BTW - you might find this interesting. It comes from a blogger I followed who has encyclopedic knowledge of ASOAIF. She's great.

Just reading through this - books good so far - and I came to this paragraph, which I completely, 100%, down to to the letter agree with, and have been trying to convince people of for some time:

Note, I believe there’s two types of prehistorical black stone: the greasy, oily black stone that the Seastone Chair and Asshai and Yeen are made of, and the blocky, fused black stone seen at the Five Forts and the Hightower. I think the greasy stone belonged to the Enemy, and the blocky stone belonged to the Defenders. (The mazemakers of Lorath, destroyed by an enemy from the sea, may have been Defenders who lost their war.) That the blocky black stone is fused similarly to Valyrian construction but not in the Valyrian style suggests that the Defenders may have had dragons, which could explain why there are stories of dragons all over the world dated long before the Valyrians tamed the ones living in the Fourteen Flames.

The Great Empire of the Dawn had dragons first, before the LN and before the Bloodstone Emperor. If anyone crossed wyverns and firewyrms, it was them.

My opinion is that the ‘black stone which fell from the sky’ the the Bloodstone Emperor worshipped is the same greasy black stone of Yeen, Asshai, Isle of Toads, and the Seastone Chair. My theory is that these stones are all pieces of the destroyed second moon. I have provided a lot of textual corroboration, and hope to provide more. Back to this post...

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I see the time frame of events like that:

First the God-on-Earth rule. Total bliss and harmony. One single empire, with all men within the frontiers given by TWoIaF. Duration 10,000 years.

The God-on-Earth leaves and his sons and heirs follow. But unrest follows shortly. Men go to Sothoryos and other places, like Pyke and Oldtown. Start worshiping foreign gods. Do evil things, create the oily stone which increases the presence of R'hllor, create hybrids. But they not yet have enough power to create dragons, or to overthrow the Emperors. Duration 5,000 years, more or less.

At some point they manage to call down the Stone. It fell near Ashai, the greatest city of the Empire. The Amethyst brother fell to its power, murder his sister and starts the real evil. The FM flee to Westeros. Duration 2,000 years, more or less. I know it is a bit long, but:

Despairing of the evil that had been unleashed on earth ... and the Lion of Night came forth in all his wroth to punish the wickedness of men.

I would believe the LN didn't come immediately after the Blood Betrayal. Despairing needs some time. And at least, it requested the time for the GO come also. The LN was not the doing of the Stone, neither the GO I would believe. After the LN, Sothoryos and Ashai were mostly abandoned, the humankind and the Great Empire scattered.

Your timeline seems plausible. I have no real idea how long it takes a god to despair. I have been toying with the idea that Ashai and Yeen are ceremonial built by the Deep Ones to worship Lovecraftian space gods, and this is the origin of the corruption.
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Really intriguing theory. I really like how you connected the eyes of the ancestors to the old rulers of dawn. That's the kind of tricky stuff George loves to sprinkle in every where. I hope Jon Snow is not the BSE and doesn't have to be sacrificed or whatever


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Really intriguing theory. I really like how you connected the eyes of the ancestors to the old rulers of dawn. That's the kind of tricky stuff George loves to sprinkle in every where. I hope Jon Snow is not the BSE and doesn't have to be sacrificed or whatever

Not counting Bran become fused with a tree. I doubt more than one of our five primaries survives Dreams of Spring. I had my hopes for Jon at a certain point, but I tend to think it will be Daenerys.

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If Quaithe is anyone we know, I think she's Shierra Seastarr, mother of Melisandre. The mask of starlight is a clue that she is connected to the Church of Starry wisdom.

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Awesome, the basic premise is that the Azor Ahai / Lightbrineger myth is tied to the legend of the cracking of the moon to pour forth a million dragons, and that they both represent a mythological remembrance of a world-shaking celestial event which was the cause of the Long Night. The pattern created by this event in turn plays out on the ground, in sort of a fictional-astrological kind of mirror action. The idea of the earth mirroring the heavens is of course the famous hermetic concept of “as above, so below,” and I believe George had it in mind. Thus, the Bloodstone Emperor’s betrayal of his sister, the Amethyst Empress, is actually the same story as Azor Ahai, just told from the reverse perspective with different connotations, and it represents the first terrestrial maniferstion of the celestial event. Subsequently, the pattern plays out over and over again in various ways, which explains why several people seem to fit the criteria for Azor Ahai reborn, and why Lightbringer is interpreted to be anything from a literal flaming sword to a comet to person to The Wall to the dragons and on and on... they are all manifesting a similar pattern in some way, or a similar ‘set’ of patterns.

TWOIAF repeats this patterning almost every section. I hope to eventually work my way up to going through some of that and showing how it confirms the celestial pattern.

Please do let me know what you think, and if you have any threads to point me to, I’d love to read them. :)

Very interesting.

I co-wrote three essays discussing the parallels between Daenerys and Bran, they focused primarily in the magical aspects of their arcs. You can find the essays here:

Essay I - A Magical Awakening & A Magical Journey

Essay II - The Place of Magic & Mythology

Essay III - Animal Bond & Miscellaneous Similarities

There might me elements that we discussed that could be helpful to your theory.

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If Quaithe is anyone we know, I think she's Shierra Seastarr, mother of Melisandre. The mask of starlight is a clue that she is connected to the Church of Starry wisdom.

Just a add: there seems to be some clues pointing to Quaithe appearing to Dany during her fevered dream all the way back in Dany IX in AGOT. The same phrasing is used:

AGOT:

“After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars.”

ADWD:

“Quaithe?” Dany called. “Where are you, Quaithe?”

Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight.

“Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. “The dragons know. Do you?”

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Just a add: there seems to be some clues pointing to Quaithe appearing to Dany during her fevered dream all the way back in Dany IX in AGOT. The same phrasing is used:

AGOT:

“After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars.”

ADWD:

“Quaithe?” Dany called. “Where are you, Quaithe?”

Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight.

“Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. “The dragons know. Do you?”

Oh yes absolutely, i agree that’s what’s going on here - it’s either Quaithe, or the power she serves - some legacy of the bloodstone magic. I think all the stars whispering references are are talking about the Church of Starry Wisdom, and thus the Bloodstone Emperor. The COSW and R’hllorism both come from Asshai, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

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