Daenerys is the Amethyst Empress Reborn

[barristan-b]

If Quaithe is anyone we know, I think she's Shierra Seastarr, mother of Melisandre. The mask of starlight is a clue that she is connected to the Church of Starry wisdom.

This is what gets me going. Awesome stuff in this thread.

The Church of Starry Wisdom is mentioned just a little bit but seems like it should be important given its in fact the oldest religion in Planetos when you think about it. It began with the Bloodstone Emperor and we know it's members are scattered in port cities throughout the planet.

So then where and who are the members? Could it be the likes of Oldtown, Asshai, Pyke..these locations not only have the black stone but quite mysterious characters tied to some red/fiery shit. Could Quaithe, Marwyn, Mirri, and Euron may in fact be followers of the Church of Starry Wisdom? Maybe they're trying to use Dany for her mojo as mentioned and drive the Bloodstone Emperor's ancient agenda forward.

They want to use the star composite for blood purposes when it should rather be used for the impending battle of ice & fire.

Also, maybe the two different types of black stone are from (1) the destroyed/fallen moon ...and (2) the comet's composite that hit it

Lovecraft's CoSW worshiped the "outer gods"...in other words, maybe the outside material and magic that was introduced by the comet.

When it happened, it screwed up the seasons and magic in the realm. Here's the kicker: maybe the more stable planet from before was colder and consistently had long winters. The destruction of one of the moons introduced new conditions that led way to a bigger presence of dragons and fire magic. However when magic is overused and maybe with blood, it can incur adverse conditions at the expense of using it too much. A ying and yang scenario.

[Nozlym]

hmm i find it hard to believe that the imagery of Quaithe and stars is related to the COSW, which we only, if memory serves me learnt about in TWOIAF.

[Durran Durrandon]

I'm not sure about Quaithe, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Euron as part of The CoSW.

[Durran Durrandon]

This is what gets me going. Awesome stuff in this thread.

The Church of Starry Wisdom is mentioned just a little bit but seems like it should be important given its in fact the oldest religion in Planetos when you think about it. It began with the Bloodstone Emperor and we know it's members are scattered in port cities throughout the planet.

So then where and who are the members? Could it be the likes of Oldtown, Asshai, Pyke..these locations not only have the black stone but quite mysterious characters tied to some red/fiery shit. Could Quaithe, Marwyn, Mirri, and Euron may in fact be followers of the Church of Starry Wisdom? Maybe they're trying to use Dany for her mojo as mentioned and drive the Bloodstone Emperor's ancient agenda forward.

I think these questions are golden. I might add Lord Hightower and the Mad Maid to the list of suspects.

[Nozlym]

I think these questions are golden. I might add Lord Hightower and the Mad Maid to the list of suspects.

definitley agree with Lord Hightower

i almost see him as a Saruman type character, locked away in his tower worshipping someone sinister trying to help their means

[Aslerys]

I think these questions are golden. I might add Lord Hightower and the Mad Maid to the list of suspects.

"We Light the Way" ;)

I wish I could add more than just the Hightowers words but I'm afraid I'm too dumb for this kind of thread! :lol:

[barristan-b]

I think these questions are golden. I might add Lord Hightower and the Mad Maid to the list of suspects.

Cool deal.

Yeah, the CoSW doesn't seem entirely important given it's only in tWoIaF but I really think there's a faction of blood magic characters separate from the Red Priest/R'hllor followers.

That's always been something I've been trying to wrap my head around: Looking at Blood magic separate from R'hllor and the Old Gods.

[Durran Durrandon]

definitley agree with Lord Hightower

i almost see him as a Saruman type character, locked away in his tower worshipping someone sinister trying to help their means

"The Hightower must be doing something."

"To be sure. Lord Leyton's locked atop his tower with the Mad Maid, consulting books of spells. Might be he'll raise an army from the deeps. " (AFoC 685)

[Durran Durrandon]

Cool deal.

Yeah, the CoSW doesn't seem entirely important given it's only in tWoIaF but I really think there's a faction of blood magic characters separate from the Red Priest/R'hllor followers.

That's always been something I've been trying to wrap my head around: Looking at Blood magic separate from R'hllor and the Old Gods.

They have a one liner in Dance, but you're point is still well taken.

[Nozlym]

"The Hightower must be doing something."

"To be sure. Lord Leyton's locked atop his tower with the Mad Maid, consulting books of spells. Might be he'll raise an army from the deeps. " (AFoC 685)

haha thats awesome

[LmL]

"We Light the Way" ;)

I wish I could add more than just the Hightowers words but I'm afraid I'm too dumb for this kind of thread! :lol:

Hey that's terrific, I hadn't come across the words of House Hightower or thought to look them up.

[DamnDirtyApe]

I chipped in earlier with the bit about "The Colour out of Space", and something just occurred to me. Now, I'll admit that I'm engaging in some Sunday night crackpottery here (and that's all I'm doing, let me assure you), but consider the possibility that a subject of the Great Empire of the Dawn, fleeing the desolation wrought by the meteorite, might have eventually turned up on the west coast of Westeros, built the base of the Hightower out of the black stone used by his people, sired many, many children in the verdant land he made his new home in, and been particularly persnickety about the quality of vegetation that grew there, owing to his experiences with the blight that befell his place of origin.

You see, the family farm that the meteorite landed on in "The Colour out of Space"? The family that lived there were called the Gardners.

[thisistherevolt]

I chipped in earlier with the bit about "The Colour out of Space", and something just occurred to me. Now, I'll admit that I'm engaging in some Sunday night crackpottery here (and that's all I'm doing, let me assure you), but consider the possibility that a subject of the Great Empire of the Dawn, fleeing the desolation wrought by the meteorite, might have eventually turned up on the west coast of Westeros, built the base of the Hightower out of the black stone used by his people, sired many, many children in the verdant land he made his new home in, and been particularly persnickety about the quality of vegetation that grew there, owing to his experiences with the blight that befell his place of origin.

You see, the family farm that the meteorite landed on in "The Colour out of Space"? The family that lived there were called the Gardners.

Mind blown. I'm about to go dig in my attic and try to find my Lovecraft books now.

[thisistherevolt]

I just had a random thought, what if The Heart of Winter is a piece of the moon? I could see a similar situation to Final Fantasy 7 with Jenova being an alien virus/monster leaking out into the world. A "virus" of some kind could be responsible for the Others and messed up seasons.Jon Snow=Cloud. Lol. Also, the extraterrestrial invaders is one trope we have not seen at all yet, so it has that going for it.

[Pielord]

Hey people

Seems to me that most agree the gem emperors/emperesses of dawn where actually dynasties of different families

Could it maybe stand the the younger brother wasn't an actual brother but a lesser house related to the main Amethyst family, like say how the Baratheons could be seen as a little brother of the Targaryens. it's through targ blood that Robert claims the throne altough through a more recent relation than the founder of the baratheons who was rumoured to be Aegons younger bastard brother.

I would propose that it might be Rhaegar not Daenarys is the Amethest Emperess reborn the reason is based more along the lines of Lucifer means Lightbringers astrology/astronomy and written symbolism thoery. When Robert (BSE) kills Rhaegar (AP) the rubies that fly from his chest are very symbolically reminiscent of a meteor shower . He (and Aemon also) believed that he was related in a direct way to the ptwp which is possibly related to Azor Ahai.

Now my little rambling might have few flaws, if bse is also azor ahai like LmL suggests then Roberts death puts a dampner on things, but not if you consider the family/dynasty aspect, Stannis would be the new BSE and could be Azor Ahai, something certainly led Mel to believe this even if her newer visions cast doubt. I also think the original Azor Ahai is not the original BSE but instead a relative, most likely a son which can easily explain how one is seen as such a villian while the other a hero, the myth/legend of the two became mixed up together over time.

I need to do alot more reading but it was just some thoughts i had reading through your and LmLs posts

[Mithras]

...When Robert (BSE) kills Rhaegar (AP) the rubies that fly from his chest are very symbolically reminiscent of a meteor shower ...

Not a bad idea. Compare the two quotes below:

The sound of some hubbub in the street intruded on his worries. Tyrion peered out cautiously between the curtains. They were passing through Cobbler’s Square, where a sizable crowd had gathered beneath the leather awnings to listen to the rantings of a prophet. A robe of undyed wool belted with a hempen rope marked him for one of the begging brothers.

“Corruption!” the man cried shrilly. “There is the warning! Behold the Father’s scourge!” He pointed at the fuzzy red wound in the sky. From this vantage, the distant castle on Aegon’s High Hill was directly behind him, with the comet hanging forebodingly over its towers. A clever choice of stage, Tyrion reflected. “We have become swollen, bloated, foul. Brother couples with sister in the bed of kings, and the fruit of their incest capers in his palace to the piping of a twisted little monkey demon. Highborn ladies fornicate with fools and give birth to monsters! Even the High Septon has forgotten the gods! He bathes in scented waters and grows fat on lark and lamprey while his people starve! Pride comes before prayer, maggots rule our castles, and gold is all . . . but no more! The Rotten Summer is at an end, and the Whoremonger King is brought low! When the boar did open him, a great stench rose to heaven and a thousand snakes slid forth from his belly, hissing and biting!” He jabbed his bony finger back at comet and castle. “There comes the Harbinger! Cleanse yourselves, the gods cry out, lest ye be cleansed! Bathe in the wine of righteousness, or you shall be bathed in fire! Fire!”

When the daughter of the Opal Emperor succeeded him as the Amethyst Empress, her envious younger brother cast her down and slew her, proclaiming himself the Bloodstone Emperor and beginning a reign of terror. He practiced dark arts, torture, and necromancy, enslaved his people, took a tiger -woman for his bride , feasted on human flesh, and cast down the true gods to worship a black stone that had fallen from the sky. (Many scholars count the Bloodstone Emperor as the first High Priest of the sinister Church of Starry Wisdom, which persists to this day in many port cities throughout the known world).

[Mithras]

The Church of Starry Wisdom is mentioned just a little bit but seems like it should be important given its in fact the oldest religion in Planetos when you think about it. It began with the Bloodstone Emperor and we know it's members are scattered in port cities throughout the planet.

So then where and who are the members? Could it be the likes of Oldtown, Asshai, Pyke..these locations not only have the black stone but quite mysterious characters tied to some red/fiery shit. Could Quaithe, Marwyn, Mirri, and Euron may in fact be followers of the Church of Starry Wisdom? Maybe they're trying to use Dany for her mojo as mentioned and drive the Bloodstone Emperor's ancient agenda forward.

I don't know Euron or Mirri but I think Marwyn and Quaithe are definitely worshippers of Starry Wisdom. And they are bad news. Marwyn is probably using the unwanted pregnancies of the whores he deals with as sacrifices in dark temples. That is how he should have lit the glass candle.

[Aslerys]

Hey that's terrific, I hadn't come across the words of House Hightower or thought to look them up.

Thanks! You're too kind!

I've been doing a little more research on the Hightowers and found a interesting thing in their wiki page:

"The Hightowers were also one of the first great lords to accept the Faith of the Seven and thus gave their patronage to the establishment of the office of High Septon and the building of the Starry Sept as the center of the Faith."

Obviously the word " Starry" caught my eye even though it's a fitting name to give to a Sept. Maybe it has a double meaning? :dunno:

Also the Hightower sigil, the tower, and it's location in the city of knowleged remind me of the Tower of Babel and the funny thing is that the Tower of Babel seems to have inspired a tarot card, the Tower, which sometimes is depicted as "a burning tower being struck by lightning or fire from the sky" .

So this probably doesn't mean anything but I liked doing the research so here it is! :laugh:

[SeanF]

I chipped in earlier with the bit about "The Colour out of Space", and something just occurred to me. Now, I'll admit that I'm engaging in some Sunday night crackpottery here (and that's all I'm doing, let me assure you), but consider the possibility that a subject of the Great Empire of the Dawn, fleeing the desolation wrought by the meteorite, might have eventually turned up on the west coast of Westeros, built the base of the Hightower out of the black stone used by his people, sired many, many children in the verdant land he made his new home in, and been particularly persnickety about the quality of vegetation that grew there, owing to his experiences with the blight that befell his place of origin.

You see, the family farm that the meteorite landed on in "The Colour out of Space"? The family that lived there were called the Gardners.

Excellent catch.

The worship of a huge black spherical stone reminds me of the worship of Elagalabus.

[DamnDirtyApe]

Excellent catch.

The worship of a huge black spherical stone reminds me of the worship of Elagalabus.

I must admit defeat. What is "Elagalabus"? Sounds intriguing.