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Nettles was Leaf


Mithras

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Yes, you heard it right.



Nettles was Leaf.



The timeline fits. Leaf spent the last two hundred years among the humans.



Leaf was wearing a glamor during the Dance.



Nettles/Leaf was also instrumental in having Daemon rescued and accepted to the Green Men after the duel with Aemond.



Nettles looked after Bloodraven since he was born, taught him of his gift. They even made a child together and that child is the Ghost of High Heart. Normally female CotF die while giving birth to human sized babies but the GoHH is very tiny. So, Leaf/Nettles survived the delivery.



She knows the whereabouts of Sheepstealer.


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Seeing as Sheepstealer was wild when Nettles first managed to bond with him/her, this would imply some relation between cotf and an understanding of dragon bonding, which I cannot say I recall seeing any alluions to, though it would have interesting implications.

Do you have any text that might be able to serve as a basis for your claims? Or perhaps an elaboration of how the timelines might fit?

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Not sure if Daemon is a child molester.



This was brought ages ago when TPatQ first came out but I don't see any reason to buy into that. Why should leave or any Child of the Forest take he dragon to the Mountains of the Moon and live there for a time? How or why did Nettles come to Dragonstone? The Children don't seem to be seafarers or eager to cross the sea.



Finally, a glamor should not make Nettles physically bigger. Yet a Child of the Forest does not have the height of normal-sized 14-year-old girl.



No, I'm still believing Nettles may have been Daemon's bastard daughter, and they either began an affair because they found father-daughter incest hot or they did not and had merely some father-daughter bonding time (with Daemon never knowing that he had this daughter before they met at KL).


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Seeing as Sheepstealer was wild when Nettles first managed to bond with him/her, this would imply some relation between cotf and an understanding of dragon bonding, which I cannot say I recall seeing any alluions to, though it would have interesting implications.

Do you have any text that might be able to serve as a basis for your claims? Or perhaps an elaboration of how the timelines might fit?

Skinchanging I would assume if this theory pans out.

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There is doubt that you can skinchange a dragon. If this would work, and if there were once dragons in Westeros, why did the Children not use dragons to wipe out the First Men? A skinchanger binding with a dragon should be virtually invincible.



Jon Snow may be able skinchange or easily bond with a dragon due to the fact that he most likely has Targaryen blood. But I'd be surprised if this is a trick every skinchanger can pull off.


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I personally think you can skinchange a dragon, and that the Valyrians got their asses kicked on Battle Isle and henceforth shunned Westeros.





why did the Children not use dragons to wipe out the First Men?





Maybe because there weren't any dragons left in Westeros at that point? We know there were once dragons everywhere, but that could have been eons ago. Maybe even before the elder races existed.


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Skinchanging I would assume if this theory pans out.

I don't think this is necessarily the case. We have the POV of the only known dragonrider so far in the series,and while we know that she has certainly had dreams including dragons, I don't know that I recall any instances in which she dreams she IS the dragon she has ridden. Conversely, I can say that the skin changers we have seen have all had dreams as the animals they are connected to.

It is not unheard of that I might not remember every aspect, so if anyone can provide an excerpt where Dany (or any other dragonrider for that matter) dreams that she herself is Drogon (or whichever dragon the rider rode), I will concede to this point and accept skinchanging as being related to dragon riding.

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Hair and eye color don't match up. Daemon might also wonder why nettles only has 3 fingers on each hand instead of 4, as CoTF have 3 fingers and a thumb.



"Netty was a small brown-skinned girl with black hair and brown eyes."



"She has nut-brown skin that is dappled like a deer's with paler spots, and large ears. She wears a cloak of leaves. She has large liquid gold and green eyes which are slitted like a cat's eyes (that is, with vertical rather than round pupils). Her hair is a tangle of brown, red and gold, autumn colours, with vines and twigs and withered flowers woven through it."


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Didn't GRRM say that there was no precedent for a dragon being skinchanged?

This is paraphrased, not a direct quote

Q: What can you tell us about a warg dragon rider?

A: There is no history/precedent for someone warging a dragon. There is a rich history of the mythical bond between dragon and rider. There have been instances of dragons responding to their riders even from very far away (hmm) which shows it is a true and very strong bond. We will learn more about this. Keep reading

This could mean there's no documented history of it happening, or that it definitively hasn't happened yet. It's not clear to me. Either way he doesn't close the door on it, it's basically a "keep reading" response.

Edit: Forgot the link

http://www.staceysimms.com/george-r-r-martin-qa/

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My guess is that trying to skinchange a dragon drives that dragon mad and severs both the connection betweeen dragon and dragonlord as well as any connection that could be established between dragon and skinchanger.



That would be a neat explanation why the Valyrians couldn't conquer Westeros and why there were no skinchanging dragonriders.


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Yes, you heard it right.

Nettles was Leaf.

The timeline fits. Leaf spent the last two hundred years among the humans.

Leaf was wearing a glamor during the Dance.

Nettles/Leaf was also instrumental in having Daemon rescued and accepted to the Green Men after the duel with Aemond.

Nettles looked after Bloodraven since he was born, taught him of his gift. They even made a child together and that child is the Ghost of High Heart. Normally female CotF die while giving birth to human sized babies but the GoHH is very tiny. So, she survived the delivery.

She knows the whereabouts of Sheepstealer.

Ibbison from Ibben has been saying this for a while. I still don't really buy it but it is interesting.

Seven hells! This one is mine! I threw this out somewhere around page 25 of the tPatQ thread, and have been taking s**t about it ever since. Glad to have made a convert, but I'm taking original credit.

For the record, my claim was based on the observed difference between how Nettles bound a dragon vs everyone else. I think she was using blood magic to temporarily hijack Sheepstealer (much the same way Mel was able to temporarily interfere with Jon's bond to Ghost). That's why she had to feed Sheepstealer a sheep before each flight - it wasn't a true bond, just a temp one.

I don't buy that tGoHH is her child - Jenny claimed tGoHH was CotF, and I have no reason to doubt her. But I'm fully on board with Leaf training BR, and being the one to feed him weirwood paste.

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Leaf told Bran and Co that she had wandered the world for two hundred years, until her "legs were sore and her heart was weary" and she returned home. That's why she could speak the common tongue, and was the CotF point person for dealing with Bran. I doubt Leaf was just indulging her inner tourist - she had a mission during that time.



ADwD, Bran II



"Do you have a name?" asked Bran.


"When I am needing one."




The underlying idea behind the Nettles=Leaf hypothesis (coupled with the GoHH is CotF claim) is that the CotF are still taking an active interest in Westeros, and are specifically interested in House Targaryen. Nettles bound Sheepstaeler to ensure at least one dragon survived the Dance. TGoHH actively intervened to make sure Aerys married Rhaella so Rhaegar (and after him Jon) was born.


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The underlying idea behind the Nettles=Leaf hypothesis (coupled with the GoHH is CotF claim) is that the CotF are still taking an active interest in Westeros, and are specifically interested in House Targaryen. Nettles bound Sheepstaeler to ensure at least one dragon survived the Dance. TGoHH actively intervened to make sure Aerys married Rhaella so Rhaegar (and after him Jon) was born.

ur making this sound like it was all planned from the get go

nettles kept sheepstealer alive cus they were being hunted

GoHH just spoke about what she saw, like she does for everything. not conducting some master plan

just seems like ur trying to force conclusions

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Seeing as Sheepstealer was wild when Nettles first managed to bond with him/her, this would imply some relation between cotf and an understanding of dragon bonding, which I cannot say I recall seeing any alluions to, though it would have interesting implications.

I think the dragons can be skinchanged but perhaps pure blooded CotF could not do that. Since the dragons seem to be human contrsucts, perhaps human blood is necessary to skinchange into a dragon. That means if Leaf skinchanged into a dragon, she must have some human ancestry too (Starks or crannogmen).

Do you have any text that might be able to serve as a basis for your claims? Or perhaps an elaboration of how the timelines might fit?

Leaf said that she spent two centuries observing the humans. I think a CotF would take notice if she somehow didnot change her appearance to look more like humans. Bloodraven was able to glamor himself. If Leaf was his mentor, probably he learned that trade from Leaf, who must have been an expert user.

Leaf said that she was born in the time of dragon. We do not know what she means by that but perhaps she meant Balerion. He was the last dragon surviving the Doom and that might be an important thing. I guess the CotF takes much longer time to fully reach adulthood. So, if Leaf was born before Balerion died (in 94 AC) this makes her big enough to impersonate a human.

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