The Dames do Moan Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 How do you guys see the wall coming down (because I think it will). Me? I think the red comet might crash right the hell into it, and through it, depending on the comet's size, and leaving a huge opening. think catapult through a castle wall kinda style. and it's through this opening, where they'll march. maybe sentinels will get released, maybe they wont. The wall will come down because the magic binding it (which doesn't allow magic to pass the wall, etc.) will be undone, or just the magic will be undone and they WW will be able to walk right through the wall. I don't know exactly how it's going to happen but I think the sayings about "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" goes along with when Ned (I think Ned) says something along the lines of Starks have served in the Night's watch for thousands of years. I think that once there is no more Stark in Winterfell (currently) and there is noone with Stark blood on the wall (once Jon dies and/or leaves the watch) then the binding will become undone and either the Wall will come down or the WW will stroll right through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The wall will come down because the magic binding it (which doesn't allow magic to pass the wall, etc.) will be undone, or just the magic will be undone and they WW will be able to walk right through the wall. I don't know exactly how it's going to happen but I think the sayings about "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" goes along with when Ned (I think Ned) says something along the lines of Starks have served in the Night's watch for thousands of years. I think that once there is no more Stark in Winterfell (currently) and there is noone with Stark blood on the wall (once Jon dies and/or leaves the watch) then the binding will become undone and either the Wall will come down or the WW will stroll right through. Well, the true Others will have Ice Spiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 sir this theroy can not be true because the WW was on the move before Ned lost his head and before Robb's head was replace by a Dirwolf (Grey Wind) It could still be true though. The WW's coming back may have nothing to do with the saying "There must be a Stark in Winterfell and/or The Wall." That may just relate to the spells bound to the wall that does not allow magic to pass through. Clearly there is some type of magic related to the Wall still currently (atleast prior to the stabbing of Jon), we have seen numerous examples of magic not being able to pass through. The WW's have already come back in force at the beginning of AGOT so clearly the magic that binds the wall and the magic associated to the WW's return may not neccassarily be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Well, the true Others will have Ice Spiders I have a funny feeling that reply was just so you could post a link to a thread you created. I've read it though previously and did enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasallmaechtigeJ Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 What I always asked myself: what happens when the sea freezes? It should render the Wall useless, the Others will simply go around it. Apparently the can't swim and/or built watercrafts of any sort. If they could, the Wall would be utterly useless and never been built. And we would most likely know by now. But a frozen sea should be an alltogether different matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I have a funny feeling that reply was just so you could post a link to a thread you created. I've read it though previously and did enjoy. :cheers: It was a shameless plug, I admit, but I truly believe that while the Wall prevents magical being from passing through it, Ice Spiders are meant to climb Ice Walls... Add to this snowdrifts, hundreds of feet deep, and the fact that white walkers slide silently on top of the snow, leaving no tracks, and you have yourself the following scenario: Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared. What I always asked myself: what happens when the sea freezes? It should render the Wall useless, the Others will simply go around it. Apparently the can't swim and/or built watercrafts of any sort. If they could, the Wall would be utterly useless and never been built. And we would most likely know by now. But a frozen sea should be an alltogether different matter... We already have accounts of "dead things in the water." No doubt the seas will present a whole new dynamic to the threat the Others bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasallmaechtigeJ Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 We already have accounts of "dead things in the water." No doubt the seas will present a whole new dynamic to the threat the Others bear. Oh yeah, totally forgot about that one. Although the way I read it, I assumed it would just be the wildling-zombies floating in the water (I'm pretty sure water doesn't incapacitate them)... I mean it could also be some new threat, though I would still rout for floating zombies for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Oh yeah, totally forgot about that one. Although the way I read it, I assumed it would just be the wildling-zombies floating in the water (I'm pretty sure water doesn't incapacitate them)... I mean it could also be some new threat, though I would still rout for floating zombies for now. I don't think so. Jon seems to think they are a threat to their passage, rather than mere corpses. My money is on the same old threats (wights, white walkers), but attacking in a new way... Jon XII ADWD "You did well." Jon read: At Hardhome, with six ships. Wild seas. Blackbird lost with all hands, two Lyseni ships driven aground on Skane, Talon taking water. Very bad here. Wildlings eating their own dead. Dead things in the woods. Braavosi captains will only take women, children on their ships. Witch women call us slavers. Attempt to take Storm Crow defeated, six crew dead, many wildlings. Eight ravens left. Dead things in the water. Send help by land, seas wracked by storms. From Talon, by hand of Maester Harmune. Cotter Pyke had made his angry mark below. Jon XII ADWD "Is it grievous, my lord?" asked Clydas. "Grievous enough." Dead things in the wood. Dead things in the water. Six ships left, of the eleven that set sail. Jon Snow rolled up the parchment, frowning. Night falls, he thought, and now my war begins. Jon XIII ADWD It was the journey back that concerned Jon Snow. Coming home, they would be slowed by thousands of free folk, many sick and starved. A river of humanity moving slower than a river of ice. That would leave them vulnerable. Dead things in the woods. Dead things in the water. "How many men are enough?" he asked Leathers. "A hundred? Two hundred? Five hundred? A thousand?" Should I take more men, or fewer? A smaller ranging would reach Hardhome sooner … but what good were swords without food? Mother Mole and her people were already at the point of eating their own dead. To feed them, he would need to bring carts and wagons, and draft animals to haul them—horses, oxen, dogs. Instead of flying through the wood, they would be condemned to crawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasallmaechtigeJ Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I don't think so. Jon seems to think they are a threat to their passage, rather than mere corpses. My money is on the same old threats (wights, white walkers), but attacking in a new way... Jon XII ADWD "You did well." Jon read: At Hardhome, with six ships. Wild seas. Blackbird lost with all hands, two Lyseni ships driven aground on Skane, Talon taking water. Very bad here. Wildlings eating their own dead. Dead things in the woods. Braavosi captains will only take women, children on their ships. Witch women call us slavers. Attempt to take Storm Crow defeated, six crew dead, many wildlings. Eight ravens left. Dead things in the water. Send help by land, seas wracked by storms. From Talon, by hand of Maester Harmune. Cotter Pyke had made his angry mark below. Jon XII ADWD "Is it grievous, my lord?" asked Clydas. "Grievous enough." Dead things in the wood. Dead things in the water. Six ships left, of the eleven that set sail. Jon Snow rolled up the parchment, frowning. Night falls, he thought, and now my war begins. Jon XIII ADWD It was the journey back that concerned Jon Snow. Coming home, they would be slowed by thousands of free folk, many sick and starved. A river of humanity moving slower than a river of ice. That would leave them vulnerable. Dead things in the woods. Dead things in the water. "How many men are enough?" he asked Leathers. "A hundred? Two hundred? Five hundred? A thousand?" Should I take more men, or fewer? A smaller ranging would reach Hardhome sooner … but what good were swords without food? Mother Mole and her people were already at the point of eating their own dead. To feed them, he would need to bring carts and wagons, and draft animals to haul them—horses, oxen, dogs. Instead of flying through the wood, they would be condemned to crawl. Yeah, obviously Jon considers this a serious threat, the interesting question that only TWOW can answer is, is he a reliable narrator here? Cotter Pyke passes him information, we only get his reception, but he has no firsthand impressions. It seems to me that Cotter Pyke survived the encounters and if I remember it correctly he didn't lose his fleet against them, but in a storm. So apparently, the dead things don't pose that much of a threat. Yet, all of this is basically crackpot until we encounter the dead things firsthand, I'd love to see undead kraken and stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenabot Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I'm fairly certain the Wall is coming down -- either by the end of The Winds of Winter, or in the early stages of A Dream of Spring. It's been a huge, frozen Chekhov's Gun since the start of the series. Huge barrier keeping creepy bad things out of the kingdom? Oh, yeah. The Wall's days are numbered. I subscribe to the notion that the Wall was actually built by the Others (a species imbued with ice magic and a fantastically huge Wall made of ice -- it's almost too logical). Following a peace treaty -- likely forged by the Last Hero / Night's King -- the Others raised the Wall in cooperation with House Stark. Whatever pact they made has since been broken. The Others can't be happy about recent events. The dragons have returned, the Red Faith is trying to pledge itself to a Valyrian queen, a priestess of R'hllor is literally standing on the Wall, Stannis' army of fire zealots have made the Night's Watch -- which was supposed to neutrally guard the border -- into de facto vassals, and two Lord Commanders have been murdered by their own men. The Others are out there going, "Oh HELL naw." Something's going to cause them to snap. When they do, the Other army will mass with all their thralls and create a huge breach in the Wall -- if not entirely crumble it. The Long Night falls again, and then the endgame begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crippledtank Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 the watch was always corrupt, and it just reinforces Old Nan's infamous, go to line for me, "all crows are liars." eddard: "there was once nobility within the watch.." how far back do you think he means?Maybe that was the point of benjens appointment at the wall? He was to one day rise to LC and try return it to the glory dAys? He had an entire summer to get it done. Assuming he joins not Long after Roberts rebellion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crippledtank Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 What I always asked myself: what happens when the sea freezes? It should render the Wall useless, the Others will simply go around it. Apparently the can't swim and/or built watercrafts of any sort. If they could, the Wall would be utterly useless and never been built. And we would most likely know by now. But a frozen sea should be an alltogether different matter... I guess east watch by the sea is there in case of this? The wall was obviously built or WW not wildlings esp since the north (winterfell and such) would of had connections to the "true north" (where the wall now stands and beyond) although I haven't read any descriptions of east watch by the sea having defences against "naval forces" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crippledtank Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Considering the wall wasn't there last time the WW showed up it's hard to say. We know that the wildlings no longer want the wall to fall (all the great wildlings forces are shattered or on the "safe" side of the wall. Ultimately the horn of joraman would be most likely answer that shatters or melts the wall or even just negates the spells that render it useless against some of the properties the WW are KNOWN to have (ice spiders and mist form etc) also we know that wights can be on the south side meaning the wall must prevent passage through it not prevent certain beings going on the south side.My best guess would be the Others have the horn which will "shatter the wall" in either a certain spot or the entire thing Of course tormund might just be careless with his member and knock the whole thing down with a signal blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddy83 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 If the Wall does come down, does that essentianlly end The Nights Watch and their vows along with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'd say the neglect of vows, and brothers not remaining true to the Watch, will be the very form by which the Wall comes down, rather than the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Umber Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 The Great Army of the Others amasses itself on the north side of the wall with 500,000 wights and various ice monsters. The Night's King raises the Horn of Winter to his lips and lets out a long blast. The wall then trembles at it's foundations, tilts and falls... crashing to the ground and crushing the Great Army of the Others. Then spring comes. The End. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'd say the neglect of vows, and brothers not remaining true to the Watch, will be the very form by which the Wall comes down, rather than the other way around. Yes. I'm leaning towards this as well. There's a quote by Bran, who is himself quoting Old Nan, that says something along the lines of "The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands AND the men of the nights watch stay true" I wonder what the AND means there. Is it a condition to the Wall standing? Or just the 2nd part of the 2 part requirement? I don't know. But I definitely think with the ending of ADWD that the 2nd requirement (men of the NW staying true) has become a major issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Yes. I'm leaning towards this as well. There's a quote by Bran, who is himself quoting Old Nan, that says something along the lines of "The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands AND the men of the nights watch stay true" I wonder what the AND means there. Is it a condition to the Wall standing? Or just the 2nd part of the 2 part requirement? I don't know. But I definitely think with the ending of ADWD that the 2nd requirement (men of the NW staying true) has become a major issue.Re the AND...I'd think 'not stabbing' the Lord Commander would be part of that ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 The magic fails it suddenly get much colder very fast and it causes an ice quake that brings down a section of sections of the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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