Isobel Harper Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 <snip> Why is it that some posters are totally incapable of appreciating multiple characters and factions? I like Stannis, but my liking of Stannis does not prevent me from enjoying and rooting for the Starks, and despite liking those two factions I still rank Theon, Jaime and Tyrion as amongst my favourite characters. <snip> Bottom line is; judge characters based in their own actions, personalities and contributions to the story, and not based on their relations to another character who is already your favourite/least favourite. I agree. I try my best to "judge" a character based on their own independent traits and actions. (Though Dany's poor opinion on Ned Stark has me like :bang:. But this doesn't change my overall opinion of her.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migalhone Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I had the same opinion at first. But I think there's something larger at hand that will bring purpose to this world-building, and it deals with more than just the "why" as to "why Dany stayed in Meereen." (I'm of the opinion that Illyrio and Varys are repeating a Blackfyre Rebellion, but something more along the lines of the 5th Blackfyre Rebellion where wealthy merchants and pirates banded together to carve up kingdoms for themselves. (Search "War of Ninepenny Kings" for reference.) Aegon might be the son of Illyrio, or Illyrio and Varys might simply be "up to their old tricks" and be stealing an item (Aegon) and selling it back to its owner (Westeros) at a larger price. But that's a topic for another thread.)Quite honestly, i sometimes think Varys and Ilyrio's plans are "We don't have a plan". Seriously...It's so fickle, although that might be plot demanding it. I can't put my finger on why do Varys and Ilyrio want this, and i hope to dear god Winds of Winter settles this issue.I was pleased that Aegon actually did took upon himself to impress the Golden Company and land in Westeros without Daenerys. Griff and Aegon were tired of being mere pawns and started to do stuff on their own. Whether Aegon was following Tyrion's advice or simply got tired of being protected, well... I guess we'll see later.As Littlefinger said "Sometimes, even pawns make moves of their own." A lesson that some learned the hard way (FFS Doran)...Yeah, this is a topic for another thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 - I think Petyr Baelish is awesome and I hate that everyone here on this forum hates him and wants him to die a painful death Fellow LF fan here :cheers: Some of my own -I don't think Oberyn was that awesome. I find him, and his daughters, to be incredibly reckless and stupid. If it wasn't for Doran, Dorne would have been annihilated a while ago. -You CAN be a fan of a morally bankrupt character without defending their actions -The dynamic between Thoros and Beric was one of the most interesting in the series -Speaking of Thoros, he's become a random side character to one of my favorites in the series -I was disappointed tWoIaF only really detailed the Lannisters in the Westerlands section. We know so few about Westerland houses already, and I thought WoIaF would change that, like it did for many of the other regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Quite honestly, i sometimes think Varys and Ilyrio's plans are "We don't have a plan". Seriously...It's so fickle, although that might be plot demanding it. I can't put my finger on why do Varys and Ilyrio want this, and i hope to dear god Winds of Winter settles this issue. I think their ultimate plans will be resolved. It's just not something that any of us truly understand right now. That's just something we'll have to be patient on. I was pleased that Aegon actually did took upon himself to impress the Golden Company and land in Westeros without Daenerys. Griff and Aegon were tired of being mere pawns and started to do stuff on their own. Whether Aegon was following Tyrion's advice or simply got tired of being protected, well... I guess we'll see later. I think people give too much credit to Tyrion. It was only one page after the infamous cyvasse game scene that the crew of the Shy Maid (Aegon included) learned that Daenerys was not sailing west but remained in Meereen. Tyrion's advice probably began to sink in then. When the GC reported not being able to sail east, Aegon made his "move." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I agree. I try my best to "judge" a character based on their own independent traits and actions. (Though Dany's poor opinion on Ned Stark has me like :bang:. But this doesn't change my overall opinion of her.)Well to be fair she has not read the books, and has been told some pretty serious things about Ned. Not that it matters because Ned is dead, they are all dead.Here is one, I want to know how Cersei got Jaime into the KG or why she thought she got him in? Who was her connection back then? And how does Cersei usually get people to do things for her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 This looks pretty similar to Confessions thread. Not that it's a bad thing, quite the opposite :) Mmm... I'll update the title with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Done. "Your Random ASOIAF/TWOIAF/D&E Opinions, Confessions and Dirty Secrets". Now Stannis fans can come and feel comfortable sharing that they furiously masturbate to the Stannis posters on their walls. We won't judge. _ _ _ My contribution. They will find a cure for greyscale, up in the North. Both Jon and Shireen will be cure. LET ME DREAM, ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I think their ultimate plans will be resolved. It's just not something that any of us truly understand right now. That's just something we'll have to be patient on. I agree. It seems to me that Doran is the one who doesn't really have a plan or doesn't know how to put it into action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Well to be fair she has not read the books, and has been told some pretty serious things about Ned. Not that it matters because Ned is dead, they are all dead. In ADwD, Barristan explains how Ned resigned at Hand when refusing to send assassins to kill her, and she still won't change her opinion of him. She might begin to change her opinion of him after meeting some Westerosi in the next two books. I think if/when she knows that Ned even refused to accept the murder of Rhaenys and "Aegon" that her opinion will begin to sway. Learning R+L=J and that Ned sacrificed his own honor to protect this boy will probably sway her as well, if she learns of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I agree. It seems to me that Doran is the one who doesn't really have a plan or doesn't know how to put it into action. I get that feeling as well, but... see what you quoted. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migalhone Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 In ADwD, Barristan explains how Ned resigned at Hand when refusing to send assassins to kill her, and she still won't change her opinion of him. She might begin to change her opinion of him after meeting some Westerosi in the next two books. I think if/when she knows that Ned even refused to accept the murder of Rhaenys and "Aegon" that her opinion will begin to sway. Learning R+L=J and that Ned sacrificed his own honor to protect this boy will probably sway her as well, if she learns of it.Well, he's called Barristan the Bold, not Barristan the Assertive. He's not exactly good at talking to women, is he? :leaving: The fact that Daenerys thinks Lannisters and Starks as Usurper's Dogs alike screams "I'm Mad Aerys daughter". And that, my friends, is not a good thing. If she can't listen to Barristan Selmy about that, who is she going to listen to?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I confess I don't see the big deal about the Usurper Dogs comment, seeing how that how all the various king/queen claimants aiming for the Iron Throne view those opposing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Luke asks one single logical obvious question: "why you didn't tell me?". Because he wasn't ready. But, the real answer to that question was that it would have been entirely anticlimatic. "No, I am your father" "Yeah, they told me already, I will never join you. Go fuck yourself". :dunno: So, Dany arrives to Westeros and say "ok, I accept and take responsibility for my brother's and father's crimes. They were in the wrong, I offer peace to the men who were behind their deaths". It's very civilized from her part but that would be a terrible development for her story, as it takes away the conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migalhone Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I confess I don't see the big deal about the Usurper Dogs comment, seeing how that how all the various king/queen claimants aiming for the Iron Throne view those opposing them.Admitelly, there isn't a big deal. To me, it feels Barristan fails to point out the difference between Starks and Lannisters reasoning and motivations for their actions in Robert's Rebellion.By thinking of them (Stark and Lannister) as alike, she's making a judgement error. That's what i meant."So, Dany arrives to Westeros and say "ok, I accept and take responsibility for my brother's and father's crimes. They were in the wrong, I offer peace to the men who were behind their deaths". It's very civilized from her part but that would be a terrible development for her story, as it takes away the conflicts." Landing in Westeros with dragons will cause conflicts anyway, unless she only gets to Westeros to fight the Others, if she ever gets to Westeros... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Well, he's called Barristan the Bold, not Barristan the Assertive. He's not exactly good at talking to women, is he? :leaving: The fact that Daenerys thinks Lannisters and Starks as Usurper's Dogs alike screams "I'm Mad Aerys daughter". And that, my friends, is not a good thing. If she can't listen to Barristan Selmy about that, who is she going to listen to?? I disagree, even though I disagree with Daenerys' stance on Ned Stark. She lost everything because of the Rebellion. I don't think she's "mad" but I think she's too "black and white" about certain things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 The fact that Daenerys thinks Lannisters and Starks as Usurper's Dogs alike screams "I'm Mad Aerys daughter". And that, my friends, is not a good thing. If she can't listen to Barristan Selmy about that, who is she going to listen to?? She is the Mad King's daughter. And if she lands on Westeros with 3 dragons plus Unsullied, Dothraki and supported by the Ironborn, it will only reinforce that conception. And it will be awesome, by the way. I don't think she's mad though, just another petulant contender for the throne like all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migalhone Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I don't dislike her character but god her arc... is hard for me to appreciate it. On another hand, it's 4 am here and i should get some sleep. Fun thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I confess I'm looking forward to see Dany's landing. It will be even better if she allies with the Ironborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 No discussions. Just wait for the Dany hate thread of the week to discuss whether she's mad or she's Satan's spawn or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 My random thought is that Dany is Satan reborn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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