Sympathy for the Blackfyres

[TheSovereignGrave]

Daemon I blackfyre actually sounds like a really honorable guy. He duels ser gwayne corbray for an hour, then wounds him, and then takes the time to make sure he gets help from the maesters. He doesn't seem like the type of guy to usurp for no reason.

King aegon knighted Daemon in his twelfth year when he won a squires tourney ( thereby making him the youngest knight ever made in the time of the targaryens, surpassing Maegor I) and shocked his court, kin, and council by bestowing upon him the sword of aegon the conquerer, blackfyre, as well as lands and other honors. Daemon took the name Blackfyre thereafter.

-WoIaF exerpt-aegon IV the unworthy

Knighted at 12. He was a badass.

Daemon probably honestly believed that Daeron the Good was truly the bastard son of Aemon the Dragonknight.

[denny717]

You are aware Bittersteel picked up Blackfyre when he fled from redgrass right?

Yeah your right, I just didn't remember reading it. I reread some of WoIaF and it says-

the pretender Haegon I Blackfyre died in the aftermath of battle, slain treacherously after he had given up his sword, but ser Aegon Rivers, Bittersteel, was taken alive and returned to the red keep in chains.

It doesn't mention if that's blackfyre, but if so then someone took it in the third blackfyre rebellion.

[Nic G]

Yeah your right, I just didn't remember reading it. I reread some of WoIaF and it says-

the pretender Haegon I Blackfyre died in the aftermath of battle, slain treacherously after he had given up his sword, but ser Aegon Rivers, Bittersteel, was taken alive and returned to the red keep in chains.

It doesn't mention if that's blackfyre, but if so then someone took it in the third blackfyre rebellion.

the blackfyre sword seems important enough that I think it have been mentioned instead of just being called "his sword" or there could have beenone of his brothers or another Blackfyre that picked up the sword after he was killed and left with the rest of the GC

[Lord_Pepsi_Cupps]

On the topic of swords - when did BR get Dark Sister? Did Aegon IV give it to him after the Dragonknight died? If so, I guess Bittersteel would have had a reason to be bitter over a piece of steel... being older than BR and also a warrior, he might have hoped for Dark Sister when Daemon got Blackfyre...

I don't actually know the circumstances of BR acquiring Dark Sister - is this known?

[denny717]

the blackfyre sword seems important enough that I think it have been mentioned instead of just being called "his sword" or there could have beenone of his brothers or another Blackfyre that picked up the sword after he was killed and left with the rest of the GC

True, it's just it went missing somewhere down the line, and the description of blackfyre and long claw are very similar. The fact that Haegon was killed after yeilding, tracherously, and if someone did take the sword, they would obviously want to keep it on the dl. Also winners write history, but obviously I base it all on speculation.

[The hairy bear]

It is not know, but it is very unlikely that Bloodraven received it from Aegon IV: he was only 9 years old at his death.

The most reasonable possibility, I guess, is that Daeron II gave it to him after the Redgrass Field. It's weird, because Baelor and Maekar would have wanted it too, but perhaps he promised it to whoever killed Daemon Blackfyre.

[Nic G]

It is not know, but it is very unlikely that Bloodraven received it from Aegon IV: he was only 9 years old at his death.

The most reasonable possibility, I guess, is that Daeron II gave it to him after the Redgrass Field. It's weird, because Baelor and Maekar would have wanted it too, but perhaps he promised it to whoever killed Daemon Blackfyre.

Didn't bloodraven fight bittersteel with darksister while BS had Blackfyre?

[denny717]

I also think it weird how the blackfyre rebellion started. Bittersteel and other lords were telling daemon he should rebel. Then daeron hears a rumor that daemon is planning to rebel. We don't know for sure who told him this, but it was likely blood raven. Then they try to arrest daemon in the red keep, but daemon and fire ball escape. Only then, does he officially declare himself king. It's possible that he didn't want to rebel, but the rumors, and conspirators forced his hand. Once your accused of treason, you may as well go with it

[The hairy bear]

Didn't bloodraven fight bittersteel with darksister while BS had Blackfyre?

I don't think that's been confirmed. All the TSS says is: "There was much and more afterward, I know. I saw a bit of it myself . . . the rebels running, Bittersteel turning the rout and leading his mad charge . . . his battle with Bloodraven, second only to the one Daemon fought with Gwayne Corbray . . . ".

FWIW, the comic adaptation seems to depict the fight Bittersteel fighting with a standard sword and Bloodraven with a Valyrian steel sword. But it's not canon, and I think that the author assumed here that Bloodraven had taken Blackfyre from Daemon (the two swords seem the same, and Bloodraven is not seen wearing a sword before).

[denny717]

No bitter steel definetly picked up blackfyre and fought bloodraven with it. I read it last in WoIaF last night, but don't have the book with me at the moment. I didn't find anything that said bloodraven had darksister but judging by the way lady forlorn and blackfyre ringing together was glorified, I kind of doubt that he had dark sister.

[bittersteelsgold]

From The Sworn Sword a description of Bloodraven.

"Six years ago in King's Landing, Dunk had seen him with his own two eyes, as he rode a pale horse up the Street of Steel with fifty Raven's Teeth behind him. That was before King Aerys had ascended to the Iron Throne and made him the Hand, but even so he cut a striking figure, garbed in smoke and scarlet with Dark Sister on his hip. His pallid skin and bone-white hair made him look a living corpse. Across his cheek and chin spread a wine-stain birthmark that was supposed to resemble a red raven, though Dunk only saw an odd-shaped blotch of discolored skin. He stared so hard that Bloodraven felt it. The king's sorcerer had turned to study him as he went by. He had one eye, and that one red. The other was an empty socket, the gift Bittersteel had given him upon the Redgrass Field. Yet it seemed to Dunk that both eyes had looked right through his skin, down to his very soul."

Dark Sister is described as being in his possession.

[The hairy bear]

Denny117,

You are right. In AWOIAF it's said that Daemon's death "was followed by Bittersteel’s mad charge, with Blackfyre in his hand, as he attempted to rally Daemon’s forces." No mention of Bloodraven wielding Dark Sister.

Bittersteelgold,

The Sworn Sword describes Bloordraven having Dark Sister in 205 ("six years ago"). That's a decade after the Redgrass Field.

[Lord Varys]

I could see Daeron II giving the sword to Bloodraven either as a reward after the Redgrass Field or already at the outbreak of the rebellion as it was apparently Bloodraven who warned Daeron II about the impending rebellion and supposedly had some evidence to back his claim up upon which Daeron II then sent the KG to arrest Daemon Blackfyre. Considering Daeron's friendly attitude towards Daemon and his half-brothers in general I assume Bloodraven would have to have really strong evidence to convince Daeron II what was going on. Daeron II would then have rewarded Bloodraven for his loyalty and service directly thereafter or only at the end of the war.

[denny717]

From The Sworn Sword a description of Bloodraven.

"Six years ago in King's Landing, Dunk had seen him with his own two eyes, as he rode a pale horse up the Street of Steel with fifty Raven's Teeth behind him. That was before King Aerys had ascended to the Iron Throne and made him the Hand, but even so he cut a striking figure, garbed in smoke and scarlet with Dark Sister on his hip. His pallid skin and bone-white hair made him look a living corpse. Across his cheek and chin spread a wine-stain birthmark that was supposed to resemble a red raven, though Dunk only saw an odd-shaped blotch of discolored skin. He stared so hard that Bloodraven felt it. The king's sorcerer had turned to study him as he went by. He had one eye, and that one red. The other was an empty socket, the gift Bittersteel had given him upon the Redgrass Field. Yet it seemed to Dunk that both eyes had looked right through his skin, down to his very soul."

Dark Sister is described as being in his possession.

Yeah if bloodraven was already missing an eye, that means this is after the red grass field.

[bittersteelsgold]

Yeah, he never lost Dark sister. I couldn't find the quote. But I even remember reading Aegon IV gave it to him. I wanted to point out that he had DS being all these people had seemed to be confused about the whereabouts of DS.

I still think Aegon gave Daemon BF and BR DS because he knew for a fact they were his sons, whereas he wasn't sure with Daeron. He couldn't publicly accuse Daeron of not being his son without proof. I like to think Daeron is Aemon the Dragon knight's son, it kinda makes an apropos karma to Aegon's poor reign. He was a poor king and had many bastards. It's only fitting his only legitimate heir turning out to be not his.

Aegon's child situation is huge goddamn mess. We know 100% Daena T and Aegon IV = Daemon BF, which kinda makes him a super Targ. Now we know for a fact Daemon is their son, being that Daena was locked in the tower and Aegon would sneak in.

We also know Aemon was in love with Naerys and vise-versa During Aegon's wedding to Naerys, she supposedly cried during the bedding.

[yzq]

Daemon was a good man who probably bit off more than what he could chew. I've always lean heavily towards the theory that he was egged on to rebel by Bittersteel and/or Quentyn Ball. For Bittersteel, if Daemon wins, he will be recognised as an important follower of Daemon's, even his right hand. If Daemon loses, it isn't the end of the world.

[denny717]

Daemon was a good man who probably bit off more than what he could chew. I've always lean heavily towards the theory that he was egged on to rebel by Bittersteel and/or Quentyn Ball. For Bittersteel, if Daemon wins, he will be recognised as an important follower of Daemon's, even his right hand. If Daemon loses, it isn't the end of the world.

Exactly. WoIaF pretty much said bittersteel and a lot of other lords were encouraging daemon, and he still didn't rebel. But then he was accused of conspiracy to usurp the throne, so he and fire ball escaped the red keep. WoIaF says it was most likely bloodraven who found this information. We know so little about this plot, that we don't even know how it was foiled. For all we know, daemon didn't even intend to usurp. But once he was accused of treason, of course he's going to rise up. He seems to honorable to stab his brother/ cousin in the back. But of course, daemon definetly thought daeron was the dragon knights son.

[Nic G]

Daemon was a good man who probably bit off more than what he could chew. I've always lean heavily towards the theory that he was egged on to rebel by Bittersteel and/or Quentyn Ball. For Bittersteel, if Daemon wins, he will be recognised as an important follower of Daemon's, even his right hand. If Daemon loses, it isn't the end of the world.

for how loyal Bittersteel was to the Blackfyres and Daemon I don't think he just didn't care about that I'm pretty sure he believed Darmon was the rightful king.

But doesn't it just seem weird that Aegon IV would invest so much in Daemon give him his sword and legitimize his bastards and not make him his heir? Does the book say who was with Aegon when he made his final wishes? Just by chance they happend to leave something out?

[bittersteelsgold]

Another interesting thing someone mention a couple pages back, was that Bloodraven and Daemon were closer than Daemon and BS. It should be an interest to point out, that BS and BR fought over their half sister Shiera. Shiera rejected BS for BR and not long after they were all legitimized. BS then coaxes Daemon away from BR and then boom, BF Rebellion and a newer, widening void between BR and Daemon. I like BS, hence my username, but I wouldn't put it past him to use Daemon and the Rebellion as a way to get leverage against BR and as a weapon against BR. These brothers hated each other before they were even born with BR being a Blackwood and BS being a Bracken, their families caught in an eternal feud, their mother's fighting.

Let's also not forget Missy's teats vs Barba's teats.

[bittersteelsgold]

It makes the BS and BR struggle way more palpable. A lot more than just fraternal enmity between them, it goes back thousands of years and its still a struggle after Robert's Rebellion.