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One God, Two Gods, Red God Blue God: Melisandre and the Night's Queen


Durran Durrandon

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Yes, if you have an airplane or a duck-boat or something. But I think you could say that about a lot of different points on the map; I'm not sure this in itself gives LoAW and Asshai any special relationship.

it's said that if youre beyond the wall, and if your travel enough, eventually int he coldest portion, youd reach the heart of winter.

ont he same token, int he shadowlands, in the most corrupt recesses of asshai, you reach the heart of darkness, it's said.

while it is still merely just a theory, that the heart of darkness and heart of winter are one in the same, one cant deny, the directions to reach the general vicinity. it IS possible, is all im saying. geographically and whatnot

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The problem is, maps are not globes. The one is 2D, the other 3D. That's why I said you should look at a globe and not at a map. By your logic, if you go north from Greenland you should land somewhere in South America, but you don't. You'll land somewhere in Eastern Russia.



That's because a map is stretched out from a three dimensional sphere to a two dimensional plane. So e.g. the Canadian Islands and Svalbard (the island belonging to Norway) are on "opposite" sides of the Northern polar region, so you can get there by simply traveling north. And if you go west from there additionally you'll land somewhere in Russia, because going west turns to going east once you passed the North Pole. It's not a straight line but more like a curve because the globe is a sphere not a flat piece of paper.



Does anyone get what I'm trying to say?




Edit: If you don't have a globe at home use Google Earth, that should do it, too.


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If you go due northwest from central Alaska, the first landmass you reach will be northern Asia. Somewhere near the coast of the Laptev Sea.



Keep going in the same direction? You will pass through mainland Asia, through the Middle East, through Africa, and eventually end up near the coast of South America. THEN, eventually, near Australia. After traversing over half the world.




Really basic example, without accounting for curvature:



http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a244/SelenaNadir/arcticcircle_zpshpkbefae.png





And again, Martin has debunked any "go east from Essos and you'll end up in the Lands of Always Winter" theories.


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The problem is, maps are not globes. The one is 2D, the other 3D. That's why I said you should look at a globe and not at a map. By your logic, if you go north from Greenland you should land somewhere in South America, but you don't. You'll land somewhere in Eastern Russia.

That's because a map is stretched out from a three dimensional sphere to a two dimensional plane. So e.g. the Canadian Islands and Svalbard (the island belonging to Norway) are on "opposite" sides of the Northern polar region, so you can get there by simply traveling north. And if you go west from there additionally you'll land somewhere in Russia, because going west turns to going east once you passed the North Pole. It's not a straight line but more like a curve because the globe is a sphere not a flat piece of paper.

Does anyone get what I'm trying to say?

i do, truly i do. and admittedly, while i never thought to take that into consideration, still, if you travelled the curve, it's still the same destination, is it not?

my point is, these two parts are within vicinity of travel from each other. it is FEASIBLE, the two hearts are one in the same.

BUT EVEN IF THEY ARENT, getting back on track to what we were actually trying to establish before a geographical side-bar,

i would theorize the first men gained their power from the heart of winter, int he northernmost portion of beyond the wall you can go

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This is absolutely the strangest conversation I have ever been a part of.

Blazfemur, much love buddy, but you're just really, really wrong on this one. Going north from Alaska takes you to Russia. You should really just go to google earth and solve this problem for yourself, since we don't seem to be able to explain it to you. No disrespect.

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This is absolutely the strangest conversation I have ever been a part of.

Blazfemur, much love buddy, but you're just really, really wrong on this one. Going north from Alaska takes you to Russia. You should really just go to google earth and solve this problem for yourself, since we don't seem to be able to explain it to you. No disrespect.

none taken friend, i think Barri said it best as i never accounted for curvature and am going on base-map

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This is absolutely the strangest conversation I have ever been a part of.

Blazfemur, much love buddy, but you're just really, really wrong on this one. Going north from Alaska takes you to Russia. You should really just go to google earth and solve this problem for yourself, since we don't seem to be able to explain it to you. No disrespect.

I completely agree.

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Can't think of any other way to explain it, geography isn't my specialty. Hope I could help.

But somehow it was fun having such a discussion :D

agreed.

GEOGRAPHY PUT ASIDE:

beyond the wall, north. im a believer the FM gained their power by travelling north enough and apparently gaining their power at the heart of winter. given to them, or they took from something, up there. just as tnk can transfer it to a baby

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That's very well possible, since there are obvious parallels to Melisandre (and possibly other Shadowbinders/Red Priest) that Durran managed to find in the texts.

By the way, you still with us Durran? Hope we didn't scare you away with the geography part.

Yeah, I 've been with my kid all day. I feel like I should thank you all for being keeping such a heated debate civil.

Well played people.

Getting back to BalerionTheCat 's question. If the Shadow is indeed caused by a fallen chunk of magic space rock. It seems logical tart the Heart of Winter is as well.

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Yeah, I 've been with my kid all day. I feel like I should thank you all for being keeping such a heated debate civil.

Well played people.

Getting back to BalerionTheCat 's question. If the Shadow is indeed caused by a fallen chunk of magic space rock. It seems logical tart the Heart of Winter is as well.

Oh but wait! What if the heart of shadow was once something else? Shadow isn’t the opposite of winter, is it? I am thinking that the heart of winter is a pure font of ice magic, while the shadow is a corrupted font of fire magic, because of the meteor.

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Yeah, I 've been with my kid all day. I feel like I should thank you all for being keeping such a heated debate civil.

Well played people.

Getting back to BalerionTheCat 's question. If the Shadow is indeed caused by a fallen chunk of magic space rock. It seems logical tart the Heart of Winter is as well.

I hope you're raising him to be the next generation of ASoIaF-Fans ;-)

Thanks, we did our best.

You're talking about the same kind of stone the Seastone Chair, the Five Forts and some other things I forgot are made of?

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This from Blazfemur’s bio page:

Welcome to my nether-realm of self-loathing, alcohol, ambien, sexual exploration & black metal

fucking hilarious bro

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I hope you're raising him to be the next generation of ASoIaF-Fans ;-)

Thanks, we did our best.

You're talking about the same kind of stone the Seastone Chair, the Five Forts and some other things I forgot are made of?

Five forts is fused stone, as well the Hightower fortress (fused stone = dragon fire + sorcery)

The greasy stone is at Asshai, Yeen, Isle of Toads, and Seastone chair. I think this may be the moon rock but its far from certain.

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Oh but wait! What if the heart of shadow was once something else? Shadow isn’t the opposite of winter, is it? I am thinking that the heart of winter is a pure font of ice magic, while the shadow is a corrupted font of fire magic, because of the meteor.

How do we know the Heart of Winter hasn't been corrupted? Following your argumentation, it could have been the Heart of Water as the opposite of fire aeons ago and was corrupted like the Heart of Shadow. Only that it's so far north that no human has ever been there (before the Others who are possibly FM). Maybe we get to know more about that with Bran ebing with some CotF since they were there before the FM.

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