Astronomy of Planetos: Fingerprints of the Dawn

[Durran Durrandon]

They're mentioned twice, even. Yeah. Monkey tail hats. And - they're worn by the "bright-eyed" men of Yi Ti.

Speculating, why is the monkey-tail (hat) the distinguishing feature of the woman who stopped the Long Night? Is it a gendered item of clothing, thus making a woman wearing one remarkable?

[Durran Durrandon]

What color of bright eyes?

[Watcher_inthe_Woods]

Just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed reading your Astronomy series Lucifer, and look forward to reading the comments and the rest of your "chapters" :)

[LmL]

Oh, no, I think Asshai/the Shadow Lands used to be a normal enough place.

Ok sweet, I'm glad, because I think that's an important part of understanding this whole Asshai puzzle.

[LmL]

What color of bright eyes?

It doesn't say, just bright eyed Yi Ti folks wearing monkey tail hats. It makes me think the woman with the monkeys tail is a popular folk hero. Perhaps the priestly elitist scribes of Yin like to think it was the red sword hero who saved everyone - R'hllorist propaganda of course - but the common pele don't give a shit about him, they remember the woman with the monkeys tail. The red sword story comes from the priestly scribes of Yin, the annals of the further east (probably written by those same scribes), and the annals of Asshai. TWOAIF tells us about the monkey tail woman in the context of "strange tales form Yi Ti," that sounds like folktales.

So who is she???? I'd really like to know. My best guess is a hybrid experiment victim who turned the tables perhaps. My general theory is that the BStone E came to Westeros, and his defeat there and the subsequent actions by the LH ended the LN somehow.. So the Monkey Tail woman would have been someone in Yi Ti who perhaps rallied the Amethyst loyalists against the BStone E's minions that he left in charge when he went west? Perhaps she is the one who simply organized the surviving Yi Tish and helped them re-establish civilization, something like that.

[LmL]

Just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed reading your Astronomy series Lucifer, and look forward to reading the comments and the rest of your "chapters" :)

Thanks, I really appreciate you taking a minute to say so. Cheers!

[PurpleLynch]

I read all of your "astronomical" threads: you sir deserve a huge prize. Your knowledge on Asoiaf is god-like. And your ideas are wonderful. You are one of the few who really understands how Asoiaf works,plus,you let me discover new things everyday.

I had the same impressions as you about TWOW,all these stories about empires in the Far East have a true importance to understand all the series.

What else can I say? I just buy your theories,they are backed up by really strong clues and really well made. It's just so perfect this work you are doing. Keep it in this way,words can't describe how amazed I am about these threads.

[LmL]

Thanks for the answer. I look forward to your next essay. I enjoy your writing and theories :). Best of luck.

I'd just like to add that it's possible the method of blood magic might determine the nature of the sword. In other words, murder people and you get a red sword, while a noble sacrifice creates a pale fire sword. Personally, I'd like to believe you can have a magic sword without killing anyone. Unless fire magic is come completely demonic, all the time, there should be a way to use it without blood sacrifice. I think the GeoDawnians did indeed have a way of taming dragons and making pale fire swords that does not involve blood magic, hopefully I can find evidence to back that up.

[LmL]

I read all of your "astronomical" threads: you sir deserve a huge prize. Your knowledge on Asoiaf is god-like. And your ideas are wonderful. You are one of the few who really understands how Asoiaf works,plus,you let me discover new things everyday.

I had the same impressions as you about TWOW,all these stories about empires in the Far East have a true importance to understand all the series.

What else can I say? I just buy your theories,they are backed up by really strong clues and really well made. It's just so perfect this work you are doing. Keep it in this way,words can't describe how amazed I am about these threads.

Thanks for saying so, it really means a lot to know people are as excited about this stuff as I am. It's been a blast and I have enough material already in note form for several more, so we will see how far this goes. :)

[LmL]

What do you guys think about the fact that several of the gemstones of the emperors are notable for appearing in many different colors? Amethyst is sometimes black, as is jade, and we hear if both specifically in ASOAIF, as well as black pearl. But some of these others - Tourmaline, Topaz, and amethyst too - come in all variety of colors, and opal is kind of rainbow looking, Plus we have the idea of fire opal that comes up a lot. It makes me think of the Farwynds and there color changing eyes. Here is a bit about tourmaline as an example:

Tourmaline belongs to a complex family of aluminum borosilicates mixed with iron, magnesium, or other various metals that, depending on the proportions of its components, may form as red, pink, yellow, brown, black, green, blue or violet. Its prismatic, vertically striated crystals may be long and slender, or thick and columnar, and are uniquely triangular in cross-section. They often vary in coloration within a single specimen, lengthwise or in cross sections, and may be transparent or opaque. The name Tourmaline comes from an ancient Sinhalese word turmali, meaning “a mixed color precious stone,” or turamali, meaning “something small from the earth.” [Mella, 110][simmons, 406][Megemont, 182]

[LmL]

As for the "metaphysical" properties of black tourmaline in particular:

Ancient magicians relied upon Black Tourmaline, known as Schorl, to protect them from earth demons as they cast their spells. Today this stone is still revered as a premier talisman of protection, a psychic shield deflecting and dispelling negative energies, entities, or destructive forces. It guards against radiation and environmental pollutants, and is highly useful in purifying and neutralizing one’s own negative thoughts and internal conflicts, and turning them into positive, usable energy. [Eason, 204][Raphaell, 132][Ahsian, 407]

http://www.crystalvaults.com/crystal-encyclopedia/black-tourmaline

[oursisthefury69]

Great pickups great thread.

The first posts are incredibly detailed/long and im not sure if i missed it at any point. But you seemed to all but directly connect the originator of house Dayne following a fallen star with the Bloodstone emperor worshiping a rock fallen from the sky; potentially the same person? This would also coincide well with my personal beliefs with the sword Dawn, which seems like a blatantly Otherish sword up until its name, if the person who caused the Long Night was the original forger of lightbringer than the "War for the Dawn" could take on another meaning on top of the fight to end the night, it was literally a fight for Dawn the sword and main source of power for this causer of the Long Night- maybe even connected to how Stannis' would-be lightbrnger seems to "drink all the light around it" similarly to (oily stone)

[LmL]

Great pickups great thread.

The first posts are incredibly detailed/long and im not sure if i missed it at any point. But you seemed to all but directly connect the originator of house Dayne following a fallen star with the Bloodstone emperor worshiping a rock fallen from the sky; potentially the same person? This would also coincide well with my personal beliefs with the sword Dawn, which seems like a blatantly Otherish sword up until its name, if the person who caused the Long Night was the original forger of lightbringer than the "War for the Dawn" could take on another meaning on top of the fight to end the night, it was literally a fight for Dawn the sword and main source of power for this causer of the Long Night- maybe even connected to how Stannis' would-be lightbrnger seems to "drink all the light around it" similarly to (oily stone)

I'm not sure if you read parts one and two of Astronomy of Planetos, but my theory is that there was two swords that clashed in the War for the Dawn: the red sword of Azor Ahai, the Bloodstone Emperor, and the pale fire sword Dawn, now in the hands of the Dayne family. Both swords have a piece of meteorite in them, but I believe the red sword, somewhat deceptively remembered as "Lightbringer" (it was more of a dark-lightbringer) was forged from the black rock worshipped by Azor Ahai / BSE, while Dawn is forged from a piece of the original Lightbringer comet itself, before it split in two and before one of those halves destroyed the fire moon, the Nissa Nissa moon.

I can't see how Dawn is made from the black stone.. The black stone drinks the light, just like Neds sword when it is split and reformed. Swords made from the black stone should look dark grey to black, like a Valyrian steel sword. But comet meteorite ores often contain nickel and phosphorus along with the iron; nickel is the most common additive to iron to make a steel alloy, and adding a tiny bit of phosphorus to steel makes it sharper (I've done a bit of research here). Adding carbon (in the form of nickel) to iron makes it brighter, and phosphorus of course is bright white or whitish yellow and can burn under the right circumstances. Meteorite ores from comets are often quite shiny.

Phosphorus is also one of the key elements necessary for the first chain reactions of life, and scientists think it first came here on... comets.

In a magical level, the black stone pieces are the corpse of a murdered goddess, which been used for dark magic. The comet itself contains the seeds for life. As a sexual metaphor, the comet represents the sperm. So Dawn the sword, it seems to me, was forged from a piece of the comet which broke off before the long night catastrophe. This means that if the ancestors of the Daynes followed the star there, they were in Westeros before the Long Night and the Bloodstone Emperor came to Westeros. This fits with them being descendants of the Amethyst Empress or her house (purple eyes and all).

[oursisthefury69]

I'm not sure if you read parts one and two of Astronomy of Planetos, but my theory is that there was two swords that clashed in the War for the Dawn: the red sword of Azor Ahai, the Bloodstone Emperor, and the pale fire sword Dawn, now in the hands of the Dayne family. Both swords have a piece of meteorite in them, but I believe the red sword, somewhat deceptively remembered as "Lightbringer" (it was more of a dark-lightbringer) was forged from the black rock worshipped by Azor Ahai / BSE, while Dawn is forged from a piece of the original Lightbringer comet itself, before it split in two and before one of those halves destroyed the fire moon, the Nissa Nissa moon.

I can't see how Dawn is made from the black stone.. The black stone drinks the light, just like Neds sword when it is split and reformed. Swords made from the black stone should look dark grey to black, like a Valyrian steel sword. But comet meteorite ores often contain nickel and phosphorus along with the iron; nickel is the most common additive to iron to make a steel alloy, and adding a tiny bit of phosphorus to steel makes it sharper (I've done a bit of research here). Adding carbon (in the form of nickel) to iron makes it brighter, and phosphorus of course is bright white or whitish yellow and can burn under the right circumstances. Meteorite ores from comets are often quite shiny.

Phosphorus is also one of the key elements necessary for the first chain reactions of life, and scientists think it first came here on... comets.

In a magical level, the black stone pieces are the corpse of a murdered goddess, which been used for dark magic. The comet itself contains the seeds for life. As a sexual metaphor, the comet represents the sperm. So Dawn the sword, it seems to me, was forged from a piece of the comet which broke off before the long night catastrophe. This means that if the ancestors of the Daynes followed the star there, they were in Westeros before the Long Night and the Bloodstone Emperor came to Westeros. This fits with them being descendants of the Amethyst Empress or her house (purple eyes and all).

didnt read the bit about the 2 swords, im sure that would clear quite a bit of it up; but in an event where the was such a scenario i defintely see Dawn as being on the less virtuous side, and there's certainly a great significance in Eddard briging the sword back to Starfall, a trip he made for reasons beyond being selectively honorable and bringing back the remains and valuables of one of 8 slain individuals. The cover for this has always been that he had a fling with Ashara or that he went there for some purpose of attending to newborn Jon on the return journey; but the best lies contain bits of truth afterall, and i think there's defintely some purpose for the Daynes holding onto Dawn and eddard knew why it needed to be returned

[LmL]

Oh, why is that?

[LmL]

Perhaps this is a good time to raise the question of what the hell "Milkglass" is supposed to be

[Modesty Lannister]

LmL, you mentioning the comet as a metaphor for sperm gave me an idea. What is "the blood betrayal"? Can it be incest? Did the Bloodstone Emperor (DarkGreen Amethyst Prince) take his sister The Purple Amethyst Princess for a wife? Taking her maidenhead would be the colour red on green, the blood betrayal that made amethyst look like a bloodstone. But, more importantly, incest is an abomination, going against nature that opened doors to dark magic practices. These practices then became so widespread that the ushered the LN. But, our difference about what ushered the Long Night (that are not that big) aside, is this the beginning of Valyrian race? A race based on dark magic and incest, obsessed with gold mines, gem mines, wealth, beauty, dragons and domination.

[Equilibrium]

Perhaps this is a good time to raise the question of what the hell "Milkglass" is supposed to be

It's a type of glass, Google it, not everything has to be mystery.

Our recent conversation supported my hypothesis about Valyrians descending from BSE or his circle, they imitate GEOTD tech, but when they make blood magic copies of GEOTD magic swords they make black ones, not pale white ones, it's clear who they consider their side.

Also as I have mentioned there was period similar to the Roman Kingdom to the Valyria's Roman Republic, GEOTD is clearly it, maybe even Ice Dragon story is set there, GRRM didn't declare it canon because he doesn't have to, so I am in the team we will see ice dragon. Since change brought transformation from monarchy to oligarchy, "regalia" of Emperors became something for everybody. I hypothesize, that in GEOTD only Emperors had platinum hair and gemstone eyes, in Valyria every citizen of note wanted platinum hair, amethyst eyes and shiny magic black sword so they blood magiced it. Similar transfer of power form emperors to masses of lesser men is happening in YiTi, with three emperors and thousand princes doing what they want.

[Equilibrium]

LmL, you mentioning the comet as a metaphor for sperm gave me an idea. What is "the blood betrayal"? Can it be incest? Did the Bloodstone Emperor (DarkGreen Amethyst Prince) take his sister The Purple Amethyst Princess for a wife? Taking her maidenhead would be the colour red on green, the blood betrayal that made amethyst look like a bloodstone. But, more importantly, incest is an abomination, going against nature that opened doors to dark magic practices. These practices then became so widespread that the ushered the LN. But, our difference about what ushered the Long Night (that are not that big) aside, is this the beginning of Valyrian race? A race based on dark magic and incest, obsessed with gold mines, gem mines, wealth, beauty, dragons and domination.

This is stellar, if you have noticed I constantly forward the hypothesis about BSE being forefather of Valyrians, and everything Valyrians do abomination of GEOTD practice (Valyrian swords, Valyrian stone, dragon bindind, slavery and unnatural looks) So both Durran and I are right, what about that, Daenerys still is descendant of AE, and it fits perfectly with LmL hypothesis about Daenerys' choice of "fire and blood" or savior behavior.

I think it could be even better explanation about Valyrian looks then mine about blood magic and magic eugenics, but both can be at play, why not strengthen heritage and sculpt yourself even more.

It's not so obvious I can't think how we all overlooked such important part of Valyrian culture, that is abomination and not in GEOTD.

This earned my utmost respect.

Fantastic.

[Modesty Lannister]

This is stellar, if you have noticed I constantly forward the hypothesis about BSE being forefather of Valyrians, and everything Valyrians do abomination of GEOTD practice (Valyrian swords, Valyrian stone, dragon bindind, slavery and unnatural looks) So both Durran and I are right, what about that, Daenerys still is descendant of AE, and it fits perfectly with LmL hypothesis about Daenerys' choice of "fire and blood" or savior behavior.

I think it could be even better explanation about Valyrian looks then mine about blood magic and magic eugenics, but both can be at play, why not strengthen heritage and sculpt yourself even more.

It's not so obvious I can't think how we all overlooked such important part of Valyrian culture, that is abomination and not in GEOTD.

This earned my utmost respect.

Fantastic.

Thank you. This is the link I lacked too for a long time. I actually developed a theory about a faction of recent Targaryens trying to break with that tradition, cut the cord, turn back to natural balance (I mentioned this in passing on the thread about black used stone) and, above all, atone for their sins. I believe Aegon V as Egg was on that path while squiring with an unknown hedge knight Dunk and later marrying a Blackwood girl (a descendant of the enemy), Aemon with rejecting the throne and studying at the Citadel (another enemy), Bloodraven going to the Wall and beyond studying CotF magic and becoming a greenseer (another enemy), Rhaegar imitating a Pentoshi prince (marrying a maiden of the sea and and a maiden of the fields and sacrificing himself in a war), Jon Snow with going over to the wildlings (another enemy) and turning them into allies. Daenarys with liberating the slaves. I do not think Daenerys chose blood and fire yet. As we know, magic is a sword without a hilt, as Mance's wife reminds us. I think Quaite is her "devil in the desert". Her temptation. A voice from Asshai calling her back to dark practices of her Valyrian race that she instinctively (or not so instinctively) rejected. She hatched dragons with blood magic, but she didn't cause her husband's and her child's deaths. That we may call a tragic serendipity. So, I believe it is up to Daenerys to find her way. With all the doubts and torment she went through, I trust she will in the end. But, what interests me here is this - with the abandonment of dark magic and its practices, do Valyrians also lose "the look" of "the Aryan race"?