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Bakker XXXV: Tyrant of Rat Nation, Worshipped as Rat of Rats


Madness

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Hopefully no matter what the release date is, he learns it soon, and then we can have our merest fraction.

Yeah, I really just want a publication date at this point. The speculation about Big Moe is interesting, but I have to admit I don't think it'll ever be more than a shadow cast over the actual narrative which will have far more to do with Lil' Moe.

Simply put, Big Moe died. Whether he died intentionally or accidentally is the only question. (Well, we can ask if he was damned but he's not coming back either way.)

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Yeah, I really just want a publication date at this point. The speculation about Big Moe is interesting, but I have to admit I don't think it'll ever be more than a shadow cast over the actual narrative which will have far more to do with Lil' Moe.

Simply put, Big Moe died. Whether he died intentionally or accidentally is the only question. (Well, we can ask if he was damned but he's not coming back either way.)

Aiming for the green, Shooter?

That's impossible.

I beg to differ- a certain Gin-Yursis accomplished that feat no more than an hour ago.

Well good for Gin-Yurs----ohmygod!

-------

But seriously, I am really interested in what happens with Little Moe. I wouldn't be surprised though if the nonmen instantly execute Serwa and Moe, or if Sorwheel kills Moe some how within the first couple chapters of TUC.

I do think there is going to be some kind of further resolution with the Big Moe / Cnauir thing, even if Meppa isn't involved. I really like Hello World's speculation about Moengus being the voice that Cnauir and Akka hear while Kellhus is on the Circumfix. And if he's also ghosting the voice of the NG, the entire Kyudea scene really comes to life and seems to beg for further treatment.

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Fascinating theory on that dream sequence. Anyone got anything else? I've always felt like it had to symbolize something, and we haven't talked about it much.



The man crouched like ape always invoked monk for me which invoked Dunyain, but that's about all I could ever make of it.


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Aiming for the green, Shooter?

That's impossible.

I beg to differ- a certain Gin-Yursis accomplished that feat no more than an hour ago.

Well good for Gin-Yurs----ohmygod!

Is this a ref to Dune? Never finished it so I missed whatever this was sadly. :-)

But seriously, I am really interested in what happens with Little Moe. I wouldn't be surprised though if the nonmen instantly execute Serwa and Moe, or if Sorwheel kills Moe some how within the first couple chapters of TUC.

I do think there is going to be some kind of further resolution with the Big Moe / Cnauir thing, even if Meppa isn't involved. I really like Hello World's speculation about Moengus being the voice that Cnauir and Akka hear while Kellhus is on the Circumfix. And if he's also ghosting the voice of the NG, the entire Kyudea scene really comes to life and seems to beg for further treatment.

Personally I hope Lil' Moe comes through and helps humanity fight the Apocalpyse. He's a character with more potential than Sorweel, who I'd much rather bite the dust early on. Serwa I figure is doomed one way or another, though there's a small chance the Seswatha within her will sway the Intact.

I really, really hope Big Moe is gone. I realize others want him to show up but I think he served his purpose in the first book triology. I like that he may have planned way more than Kellhus suspected but I see no need for him to come back after being absent for 2 books. (And I don't think Meppa counts, since Meppa being Big More would be too much of a hat trick.)

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Is this a ref to Dune? Never finished it so I missed whatever this was sadly. :-)

Dune <> Happy Gilmore. Though it's a paraphrase so not surprised Google didn't turn it up if you looked there.

I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast.

You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?

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Fascinating theory on that dream sequence. Anyone got anything else? I've always felt like it had to symbolize something, and we haven't talked about it much.

The man crouched like ape always invoked monk for me which invoked Dunyain, but that's about all I could ever make of it.

I think if there is any symbolism to it, @Hello World has great thoughts on it. It just goes against what Moe says in his meeting with Kel. I know, it could be Moe just manipulating Kel.

But, if Moe is the voice of the No-God, then Moe sent that dream also, right? And if the symbolism with Serwe is on the money, Moe said "Why? Why would you do that?", when asking about Serwe to Kelhuss. There just seem to be a lot of contradictions.

I'm of the opinion that it was the No-God. He's "alive" in the carapice. And, the Consult is very close to unleashing him again, so to speak.

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Dune <> Happy Gilmore. Though it's a paraphrase so not surprised Google didn't turn it up if you looked there.

I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast.

You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?

Ah thanks.

=-=-=

As an aside -> Was reading Freya Mathews' Why has the West failed to embrace Panpsychism? in which she distinguishes the theoria of the Greek tradition with what we might call "Enlightenment" in the East. (This of course is messy since it ignores some of Plato's own mystic questing for Wholeness.)

One of her points is that once you move into the realm of theoria you are limiting your understanding - and potentially obfuscating your experience - of reality. You place a layer of abstraction in between yourself and the world.

What if the problem with Big Moe wasn't that he lacked passion, but his Dunyain training made him see all of reality as it were a great machine? Caught up in the algorithmic/mechanistic, Big Moe would not be able to achieve the recollection of Wholeness the Psukhe demands.

Naturally Kellhus wouldn't diagnose Big Moe's plight in this way, because it would suggest that Kellhus is also unable to grasp the totality of the God precisely because he is too ingrained in interpreting the world as present circumstances placing different probability weights on future events.

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I see Scott posted:

Orion, for the UK. Penguin will be distributing Overlook’s version, and no more. It’ll be tough if I have to wait till 2016.

Overlook's already mentioned 2016, so any chance of a release later this year would be a huge surprise.

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Hopefully no matter what the release date is, he learns it soon, and then we can have our merest fraction.

Hopefully it's going to be that Ishual chapter. I know it supposedly has a massive revelation, but that's a good thing, IMO.

The sense that I got from Madness' reaction to TUC is that Bakker has left too much to be revealed in that single book. He spoke about a 'crazy revelation' per chapter, and his world getting 'so overturned'. I mean, if Madness was in the "Kellhus can never be wrong about anything even if he's wrong" crowd then I can understand where he's coming from. But other than that it just seems that TUC is going to way too much of an info-bomb that it will basically ruin the whole series.*

If the Ishual chapter can soften the revelatory blow a bit then hopefully we can have it before release.

*

Just putting Kalbear's theory to the test.

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OK, I come home from work and the wife is reading TDTCB! I've been trying to get her to read it for a year or two now. I'm elated! Anyhow, first words out of her mouth as I walk through the door is, "This Kelhuss is a real douchebag, ugghhhh, I can't take him." I told her to focus on Akka and just plow through the first half and she'll be hooked. So you think she'll make it? Or, it'll be back on the bookshelf?

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The sense that I got from Madness' reaction to TUC is that Bakker has left too much to be revealed in that single book. He spoke about a 'crazy revelation' per chapter,

and his world getting 'so overturned'.

Hmm... Maybe TUC will reveal that Eärwa is the real world, and that our world is a simulation that’s a construct of the Tekne.

That certainly would be ‘too much’ to take.

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Inform her that youre not supposed to like with Kellhus. (Which is an easy-to-make mistake, since the tropes of the genre encourage you to think Kellhus should be the sympathetic hero.)

You know, I've never thought of Kelhuss in that way.....well to explain him to someone, I should say. Still, as of WLW, I don't know what the hell to think of Kelhuss. Thanks, thats a good piece of advice to someone starting the books.

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Inform her that you’re not supposed to like with Kellhus. (Which is an easy-to-make mistake, since the tropes of the genre encourage you to think Kellhus should be the sympathetic hero.)

Indeed. You'll know she "gets it" when you find her rooting for the murderous rapist barbarian just because he's the only one to oppose Kellhus.

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Hopefully it's going to be that Ishual chapter. I know it supposedly has a massive revelation, but that's a good thing, IMO.

The sense that I got from Madness' reaction to TUC is that Bakker has left too much to be revealed in that single book. He spoke about a 'crazy revelation' per chapter, and his world getting 'so overturned'. I mean, if Madness was in the "Kellhus can never be wrong about anything even if he's wrong" crowd then I can understand where he's coming from. But other than that it just seems that TUC is going to way too much of an info-bomb that it will basically ruin the whole series.*

If the Ishual chapter can soften the revelatory blow a bit then hopefully we can have it before release.

*

Just putting Kalbear's theory to the test.

Madness also said that he was left with a lot more questions than he expected. So, yea I agree its gonna be an info bomb. But, there are a whole lot of questions to be answered. And, hopefully, Madness's unanswered questions will be answered in TSTSNBN, in 2025. Hey, we got a lot to look forward to.

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