all swedes are racist Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 It's pronounced just like it's spelled, man. Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Wasn't there a Canadian newspaper article that said Bakker has sold over a million copies? That's pretty good isn't it? Hardly unpublishable. As said before, a million copies spread over a dozen years. Pretty good, but he's not buying mansions or anything like that just yet, especially if sales were frontloaded at the start of his career when the trilogy was coming out pretty quickly and he was being touted as the Next Big Thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 .What's the point of the umlaut if you'll just pronounce it like a regular "u"? I say Knaüüüür with a German "Ü" and a rasp in the throat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Isn't it to separate the vowels, as in 'ah-you' instead of 'aw' sound of 'taut', 'caught', etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I always thought the little addendums to letters were purely decorative intended to class up the grignr names Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 You know, I've never thought of Kelhuss in that way.....well to explain him to someone, I should say. Still, as of WLW, I don't know what the hell to think of Kelhuss. Thanks, thats a good piece of advice to someone starting the books. Moe calls him Nayu at the end, and it's pretty clear that it's like his little play name or something and distinct from Cnaiur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I always thought the little addendums to letters were purely decorative intended to class up the grignr names Yeah, umlats, circonflexes, etc are pretty much standard window dressing of high-brow grimdark. FWIW I say "Nay-ur", assumed "Nayu" was just the diminutive form, kind of like Esmi, Akka, etc. @Sci- I don't know why the hell I was doing the happy gilmore stuff. Don't drink and post, kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melphis Amekia Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 On the back of the Croatian version of the book(at least), it says it's spelled NAY-ur(well, in the latter books as I remember. in the TDTCB, which I own, it's a more linguistically compatible for our language - Nejur). When I first read the books, I spelled Cnaiur as K-nai-ur, cause linguistics, until I read the glossary and re-read the books and started spelling correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jussi Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 People tend to downplay B's sales and influence because he bemoans it so much himself. I believe Bakker was talking about the poor sales of Neuropath and Disciple of the Dog. He has said many times that his fantasy novels are selling surprisingly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 .What's the point of the umlaut if you'll just pronounce it like a regular "u"? I say Knaüüüür with a German "Ü" and a rasp in the throat In English, the symbol ü is not used as an umlaut but as a diaeresis. The dieaeresis means “yes, this is really pronounced as a separate vowel.” Examples in English use are coöperation or naïve. To a reader used to umlauts, it’s extremely strange, of course. The umlaut means almost the opposite: change the vowel sound away from what is written. To an English reader, Earwa would start like the organ “ear,” so the English reader needs the trema in Eärwa. The proper spelling to a German reader would be Earwa, without any diacritics (because no German would dream of mispronouncing it.) Instead, to a German, Eärwa gives the wrong impression, as if the second vowel was anything else than A. This typographical convention to indicated pronunciation is a standard trapping of epic fantasy, used with precision by Tolkien (to split Eärwen, and to make e sound on unstressed syllables such as Olwë). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Tolkien addendum: the most important diaeresis in Tolkien is probably Eärendil, pronounced [ɛaˈrɛndil]. Without the diaeresis, his name would have 3 syllables instead of 4, and be pronounced [ɪˈrɛndil] or even [ˈɪ:rɛndil]. Note that the German spelling of Eärendil is indeed Earendil, without any diacritics. If the German translations of Bakker’s books have not removed the diacritics then they made a blunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Happy Ent, tell me your a English professor or some Linguistic scholar of some sort? I'm impressed, very impressed indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Question. I see @Triskan calls Cnaüir, Nayu. How do you guys pronounce Cnauir? I've always pronounced it S-noir. (Sorry, I don't know how to do the pronunciation thingy) But that's what it sound like when I say it. So, how is it really pronounced? My best bets are [naɪ'uːr] and ['naɪuːr]. We have no information about the sound of R in any language of Eärwa, so best to not speculate about that. (Also, it makes no sense, like asking how the Rs in “Arthur” are pronounced, which would depend very much on where you live and which social context you appear in.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Happy Ent, tell me your a English professor or some Linguistic scholar of some sort? No. This takes 10 minutes to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 No. This takes 10 minutes to learn.Well, thank you. It would take me longer than that and why I don't bother. English was my worst subject by far, hated it. It's why I have a hard time getting my point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Indeed. You'll know she "gets it" when you find her rooting for the murderous rapist barbarian just because he's the only one to oppose Kellhus. This reminds me how badly I want Bakker to write that Semantic Apocalpyse novel. I don't know if the world can handle it though, might be safer for us to just Kickstart that one so it only goes to a select few circle jerkers who wet their panties over Bakker's crazy philosophy doom & gloom. @Larry: No worries. Gilmore girls...well I never watched it but I recall the ads had some people I was attracted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drizztos Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 In English, the symbol ü is not used as an umlaut but as a diaeresis. The dieaeresis means “yes, this is really pronounced as a separate vowel.” Examples in English use are coöperation or naïve. To a reader used to umlauts, it’s extremely strange, of course. The umlaut means almost the opposite: change the vowel sound away from what is written. To an English reader, Earwa would start like the organ “ear,” so the English reader needs the trema in Eärwa. The proper spelling to a German reader would be Earwa, without any diacritics (because no German would dream of mispronouncing it.) Instead, to a German, Eärwa gives the wrong impression, as if the second vowel was anything else than A. This typographical convention to indicated pronunciation is a standard trapping of epic fantasy, used with precision by Tolkien (to split Eärwen, and to make e sound on unstressed syllables such as Olwë). I was going to disprove you by citing Cnaür's full name but to my surprise he's not actually called "ürs Skiötha" - I thought Bakker was just overly generous with the umlauts to make certain names sound more alien/germanic. I looked up the German version on amazon where the series has the super generic title "Shadowfall - War of the Prophets" and it seems they left all names untouched, umlauts and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 … more alien/germanic. This I never understood. How, to an English ear, does an umlaut make something sound more Germanic? I thought that to the English ear, German is characterised by guttural consontants like /x/ in Achtung, not by the umlauts (which typically make the language more feminine, maybe like mock-Swedish?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Another question to the English speakers who claim themselves innocent of the role of ¨: What, in your mind, happens at the end of Charlotte Brontë’s name? Is it just something you never think about? Is it weird alien shit added to make her name more grimdark or germanic? Do you have a distinct vowel sound in your head reserved for ë? Would Charlottë Bronte be the same to you? How about Charlotte Bronté? (Maybe this is for another thread.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Another question to the English speakers who claim themselves innocent of the role of ¨: What, in your mind, happens at the end of Charlotte Brontës name? Is it just something you never think about? Is it weird alien shit added to make her name more grimdark or germanic? Do you have a distinct vowel sound in your head reserved for ë? Would Charlottë Bronte be the same to you? How about Charlotte Bronté? (Maybe this is for another thread.)To me, its just weird alien shit. Its why I asked. If I see any of that shit, I don't try or care to pronounce it right. I just say it however sounds best to me. I know, fucking lazy, right? But, I can't even recall being taught that, and if i did its like Trigonometry, when do I use that shit in real life, day to day? And I was an ace in math, and if I tried to solve a problem today it would all be Greek. You don't use it, you lose it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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