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Madness

Bakker XXXV: Tyrant of Rat Nation, Worshipped as Rat of Rats

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Just a touch of controversy there, yeah.



If moe can turn ya, then moe can turn you back!



Moe the gay away!





Dunyain are like onions?




"They make us weep!"

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I don't think we can call Cnaiur gay, he's just a good all round lover. Even Earwa gets to feel the blunt end of Cnaiurs stick.



Men - check


Women - check


Dunyain - check


Gods/Yatwer - check


Skin spy - check



Just needs to add Nonmen, Sranc, Bashrag, Synthese and Inchoroi for his all rounder scouts badge.


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I don't think we can call Cnaiur gay, he's just a good all round lover. Even Earwa gets to feel the blunt end of Cnaiurs stick.

Men - check

Women - check

Dunyain - check

Gods/Yatwer - check

Skin spy - check

Just needs to add Nonmen, Sranc, Bashrag, Synthese and Inchoroi for his all rounder scouts badge.

I have a difficult time believing that in his 40+ years of living just south of Sranc country that Cnauir never banged a Sranc*. It was probably one of his prominent hobbies on long weekends.

*I feel like my posting history has just reached a new low.*

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I don't know, i don't think Cnaüir was naturally gay. I think the text shows that Moe, manipulated Cnaüir. After all he states over and over that the Dûnyain, "make you love". As for Conphas, I don't think he wanted to make love to him. After all, it was rape. A way to show his dominance, a sort of punishment. How I read it anyway. Serwe, was his proof to himself that, indeed, he wasn't gay. Along with other proofs that's been stated. If not for Moe, and his subsequent madness, I don't think Cnaüir would have ever made love to a man, IMHO.

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https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/hugos-weaving/#comment-41376



Very cool. Speaking of TUC, my agent says we should have some firm publication dates from Orion and Overlook soon. The wait’s been giving me ulcers, I don’t know about you.


Is Orion the same as Orbit or did he misspeak?



eta: In case you don't know, 'soon' by RSB standards is three months.


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I don't know, i don't think Cnaüir was naturally gay. I think the text shows that Moe, manipulated Cnaüir. After all he states over and over that the Dûnyain, "make you love". As for Conphas, I don't think he wanted to make love to him. After all, it was rape. A way to show his dominance, a sort of punishment. How I read it anyway. Serwe, was his proof to himself that, indeed, he wasn't gay. Along with other proofs that's been stated. If not for Moe, and his subsequent madness, I don't think Cnaüir would have ever made love to a man, IMHO.

Yes, he probably wouldn't have ever made love to a man.

Doesn't mean he wasn't gay, though.

He says the Dunyain make you love as a way of trying to explain the gay away.

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Yes. Out of seriousness or a joke I don't know, some have suggested he is the "father" of the White-Luck Warrior. Which would be very damn cool.

Hmm.. thought the scene where Psatma fucks the dude that becomes the WLW was pretty explicit, but shit, ever are men deceived.

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Is Orion the same as Orbit or did he misspeak?

Orion and Orbit are both owned by Hachette and Orion published Disciple of the Dog and Neuropath, so a publisher/imprint shift is not impossible. However, I think it's more likely that he misspoke and meant Orbit. Last I heard, Orbit were putting together a schedule for the book.

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He commented again on that thread,



Orion, for the UK. Penguin will be distributing Overlook’s version, and no more. It’ll be tough if I have to wait till 2016.

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Hopefully no matter what the release date is, he learns it soon, and then we can have our merest fraction.


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Actually, it seems horrifying that there's been an editorial change. There are undoubtedly lots of folks that feel that Bakker is unpublishable. Are the new editors those people?

Etiquette question: do we really need to use spoilers for Knife of Many Hands? I feel like the stock OP suggests not. Anyhow, finally read it and had some thoughts and questions.

Unpublishable how? Just asking, not disagreeing. If you're talking about some of the more gritty or "sick" scenes, well, I wouldn't be too worried. He's been writing those since the first book, so the editors should be okay with it by the time they get to the end of WLW.

My first Bakker related post ever. Finished WLW earlier today, and now I'm finally free to read these threads without fear of spoilers!

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My first Bakker related post ever.

Once you go Bakker, you never go back... er.

So the publisher is sitting on the finished book trying to decide the most opportune time to release it, which might or might not be this year? Well, that's just great.

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Hmm.. thought the scene where Psatma fucks the dude that becomes the WLW was pretty explicit, but shit, ever are men deceived.

Yea, it's pretty clear that's what happens in the text. I don't know if it was here or on SecondApocalypse, but someone suggested that's where Yatwer got the "seed" for the WLW, from Cnauir. It's crackpottery at its best.

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Wasn't there a Canadian newspaper article that said Bakker has sold over a million copies? That's pretty good isn't it? Hardly unpublishable.

People tend to downplay B's sales and influence because he bemoans it so much himself. Well, not so much lately, but the subject of penury and unappreciated genius used to be a bi-monthly theme on his blog a few years back

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People tend to downplay B's sales and influence because he bemoans it so much himself. Well, not so much lately, but the subject of penury and unappreciated genius used to be a bi-monthly theme on his blog a few years back

You can sell a million copies and still only get pocket change out of it. We don't know how bad a deal Bakker had to strike in order to get published at all, unpublishable as he is.

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Going back to Kellhus’ dream on the circumfix, regardless of where it come from, what do you all make of the tree and monk/beast/priest figure on the ridge and all that? Because this crackpot has just occurred to me. All this time I think I had been over-thinking that dream a bit.

It has to do with Serwë being the most important character and Cnaiür becoming Meppa in the end, so if you haven’t bought into that, you won’t find this very interesting.

Basically, what happened in Caraskand is that Kellhus ‘gave’ Serwë away and Cnaiür ‘took’ her. And that’s what the dream symbolized, which is why the things that appeared in it are Cnaiür, Kellhus, Serwë, and Fate.

As Locke just said on the SA forum, Kellhus achieved his divinity because of Serwë. And that is something that he never understood. He never understood Serwë’s importance; he simply saw her a tool to use against Cnaiür.

So what did he end up doing with her?

I gave her to them.
Why? Why would you do this?


Kellhus says that he gave her to them and Moënghus wonders how Kellhus could do something so idiotic.

At the same time, what did Cnaiür do just before Kellhus had the vision?

“I will bear you,” he said to the blackness. And never, it seemed, had he uttered a mightier oath. “You will not want, so long as my back is strong.”


So like I said, Kellhus gave Serwë away, the thing that made him divine, and Cnaiür took her for himself.

As you’d expect, their fates changed immediately, hence the dream with the tree symbolizing fate. The monk (the Dûnyain) became a beast, and the beast (the barbarian) became a priest (Meppa), and all of it happened on the back of Serwë (the ridge that’s like a woman’s hip).

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