Littlefinger's tapestries (Mild TWOW Spoliers)

[Lord of the Vale]

It showes how stupid Cersi is, these tapestries is probaly valuable and with the crown millions in depr she should have sold them

[Fauxdor]

The tapestries being a set piece to show The Vale that Littlefinger is/was a Baratheon supporter makes sense. The idea that it will inspire the Vale makes sense as well.

It'll be interesting to see if Nestor's title sticks. The Vale Lords themselves might see through Littlefinger's scheme to raise Nestor's station and argue that it's not legit. So the tapestries may be pointless in the long run.

[rozemarijn]

If anyone actually thinks that Littlefinger is willing to let Sansa marry someone other than he, they do not know Littlefinger.

There are three Sansa's, Sansa the pawn, young Cat and Alayne, his daughter with Cat. He only wants to marry one of them.

When he is telling her to charm young Harry it is with a smile 'while his eyes don't smile as well'.

But maybe he just intends Sansa to be bethrothed. Sansa and Harry is the Vale and Winterfell, but he has the Vale as long as Robin lives. Why give it away to a young boy he cannot influence?

When Sansa has charmed Harry they will be bethrothed. But Sansa must be widowed before they can marry. Maybe a good way to put everything on hold is make Harry a winged knight. He will not be able to marry for three years. As a winged knight of Robin he can lead an army in his stead and die conviently once the job is done and Winterfell theirs.

And all that time Sansa will stay a maid and they will have the Vale, Winterfell and Sansa can be married to someone else to strengjten them.

[Fauxdor]

There are three Sansa's, Sansa the pawn, young Cat and Alayne, his daughter with Cat. He only wants to marry one of them.

When he is telling her to charm young Harry it is with a smile 'while his eyes don't smile as well'.

But maybe he just intends Sansa to be bethrothed. Sansa and Harry is the Vale and Winterfell, but he has the Vale as long as Robin lives. Why give it away to a young boy he cannot influence?

When Sansa has charmed Harry they will be bethrothed. But Sansa must be widowed before they can marry. Maybe a good way to put everything on hold is make Harry a winged knight. He will not be able to marry for three years. As a winged knight of Robin he can lead an army in his stead and die conviently once the job is done and Winterfell theirs.

And all that time Sansa will stay a maid and they will have the Vale, Winterfell and Sansa can be married to someone else to strengjten them.

Yup.

[Blow My Horn]

But Sansa must be widowed before they can marry.

....

And all that time Sansa will stay a maid....

If she's a maid then she isn't married. What Sansa thinks about the validity of her marriage and the reality can be two completely different stories.

[rozemarijn]

If she's a maid then she isn't married. What Sansa thinks about the validity of her marriage and the reality can be two completely different stories.[/]

Apart from the fact that everyone in Kings Landing knows ... Her being a maid does not matter at all. So I do not understand why you bring it up? The only reason why it may be important is for Littlefinger and the fact that he wants her intact in his bed and not used by Harry. She has been in the Vale long enough not to be pregnant and one can marry a widow if he wishes. They make fuss about it with Margaery because of pregnancy, rebellion and the fact that Joffrey and Tommen are very young.

Littlefinger did not care about her maidenhead when he married her to Tyrion, but he might have predicted Tyrion would not touch her (which is very very unlikely). But now she has actually spent some time close to him so he might care more. It must have increased his love/obsession. Plus, he is talking about Cats maidenhead all the time.

But like I said, she is not only young Cat, she is his precious daughter with Cat as well. He might prefer it to keep her safe and betrothed and out of Harry's bed as well, as every father would. He cares about his daughter.

Last but not least Sansa the pawn is better off single. Why marry her and risk Harry might live when a breakable betrothal might suffice to get the deed done?

It is even more efficient, as long as Harry serves Robert as a winged knight he serves Littlefinger and he can control his actions and better control Sansa. He will lose a lot of control and flexibility when she marries.

Or he wants to get rid of Harry sooner and will kill him in the tourney, the betrothal is to keep the suspicion away from him. Keep your enemies confused, stuff like that. Why would he have anything to do with the murder of a man who is bethrothed to his daughter and will make her lady of the Vale? Question is why kill of the heir? To get himself heir? Or Sansa?

[Kingmonkey]

I think Petyr only wrote Cersei about the tapestries so he has an excuse to write her and talk lightly of the Lord's declerant, making sure kl stays out of his affairs.

I think there's a lot of truth in this. The tapestries were a way for LF to show his lack of concern.

However, the new sample chapter seems to finally give us some hints as to LF's end-game. The tapestries are, quite literally, trappings of kingship.

Another less literal trapping of kingship, by their similarity to the idea of the KG, are the winged knights -- which Sansa notes is an idea LF jumped on. The tourney as a whole is a way to put on a show of wealth and power to the Vale, and the talk of gathering food looks at first like wiley money-making, but could also be leverage for popularity. LF is lord paramount of the Trident, and in Sansa and Robert has his hands on the two known surviving Tully descendants who aren't in enemy hands. With Robert and Harry, there's the Vale, and Sansa is the last known Stark for the North. With that hand to play -- and the Vale the one place he hopes to come through the chaos intact and with substantial food stores -- establishing those trappings of kingship starts to make a lot of sense for LF's long game. The point of the tapestries may be as simple, and literal, as that.

[Chinoiserie]

I agree with Kingmonkey above. The trapestries make LF seem more impressive since they show what good connections he has to the Iron Throne (the king is supposed to be a Baratheon and Robert's son) and giving lavish gifts helps when you are trying to make friends. He gave very expencive gifts in the feast as well.

[lojzelote]

IMHO the tapestries mean absolutely nothing in the terms of plot importance. What happened with them is only a fun detail.

[rozemarijn]

IMHO the tapestries mean absolutely nothing in the terms of plot importance. What happened with them is only a fun detail.

We are talking about Littlefinger. The man got Tyrion falsely accused with murder by arranging some adequate party entertainment.

[lojzelote]

We are talking about Littlefinger. The man got Tyrion falsely accused with murder by arranging some adequate party entertainment.

Yes, and he used the tapestries as a means to bribe Nestor Royce. I'd be surprised though if they were a part of any larger, intricate plot.

[Starkfaithful85]

The baratheon tapestries could indicate a future alliance with stannis, considering a sansa return to the north in the show could indicate that LF might be making an alliance with stannis

However I also feel like the tapestries could indicate that Royce wants to remind people of Robert's bastard in the vale and her potential claim to the baratheon legacy...I know this is a little more far fetched but it wouldn't suprise me if George made another faction in the vale vying for power against LF

[messem]

We are talking about Littlefinger. The man got Tyrion falsely accused with murder by arranging some adequate party entertainment.No

No he didn't. I can't find the video but GRRM said nobody was supposed to take the fallout. It was supposed to look like Joffrey had been chocked. It's a coincidence that Tyrion got accused.

[messem]

It showes how stupid Cersi is, these tapestries is probaly valuable and with the crown millions in depr she should have sold them

It's like Greece right now would sell some statues. It's a drop in the ocean.

[Marakesh]

Can't believe the tapestries are still getting talked up as having secret meaning. The letter to Cersei was to get her tacit support against rebellious lords while acting casual about it. The tapestries are useful because they make Nestor happy and he's an important figure in the Vale, but even more valuable is the bragging LF can count on Nestor doing. Everyone going through that castle is going to hear about how LF got these royal artifacts from the capital and know that he is well connected there. And its this assumed alliance with the sitting king in KL that matters, not some general Baratheon loyalty.

Also, Sweetrobin seems to still be LF's option one in spite of all the poisoning theories. Why not? He's as easy to control as Lords come, and how could LF know how this Harry will rule? But Lord Robert is sickly and the possibility of rebellion still exists, so, might as well wrap up a loose end and make sure you have the 2nd in line in your camp as well. It seems like a waste for Sansa to marry Harry just for the Vale, if LF can keep the Vale and Sansa's availability for an even better deal I'm sure he will.

[rozemarijn]

The baratheon tapestries could indicate a future alliance with stannis, considering a sansa return to the north in the show could indicate that LF might be making an alliance with stannis

However I also feel like the tapestries could indicate that Royce wants to remind people of Robert's bastard in the vale and her potential claim to the baratheon legacy...I know this is a little more far fetched but it wouldn't suprise me if George made another faction in the vale vying for power against LF

Stannis and one of Roberts twelve bastards are no success stories. Stannis hates Littlefinger and Mya is a girl. At least with Gendey you could do something.

The tapestries point to Robert, but not because of his brother or bastard, because of Sansa. Robert was not fostered alone in the Vale, he was fostered with Ned. Ned has at least a relationship with the Royces, but probably grew up with half the lords in the Vale. That is why those tapestries are there, to remember King Robert and most of all, his hand, their Ned. Why would a stupid tapestry do anything on itself for a cold man at the other end of the world or a bastard whom they have known all along and possibly have suspect parentage years ago? A highborn maiden, beautiful, Ned's daughter, in the Vale, flirting with them, charming them. THAT is something you can work with. See how they flock around Slayne, what will they do for Sansa Stark?

Of course they also serve to bind Royce and show his influence and proved a nice chance to write to Cersei. But he could have gotten him some statue or some other tapestry. He picked Roberts to keep the memory warm.

It is that memory which will play a part to rally the lords of the Vale for Sansa. Why on earth rally them for a bastard without any hope of support outside the Eyrie or Stannis whom he cannot control?

There is no 'this is it' story. So there is no use saying 'he did it because of this reason or this' it will be a combination of reasons. You can have multiple reasons for doing a certain act. I certainly have. And as I said, this is Littlefinger he thinks everything through and weighs advance snd advance.

There is only one goal though. And that goal is not Stannis or a bastard, that's just simply wrong. Charming the lords, binding them, showing of and making them remember however, all points to Sansa. Those tapestries confirm he needs her and is planning with her.

Edit: I find it highly unlikely Tyrion was not framed by Littlefinger, I think you are confusing it with the intentions of the Tyrells. Look at this:

-Littlefinger was on the boat during the wedding.

-Dontos comes to the Godswood and tells Sansa Tyrion is arrested and she will be as well.

-they run, take the steps and go to the boat.

-when they arrive at the ship Dontos keeps in the boat and does not talk to Lithlefinger, he is killed immediately.

-Littlefinger immediately tells Sansa about the dwarfs how he said 'you don't hate dwarfs as much as your uncle will' to Joffrey.

-Sansa tells Tyrion is arrested and then: 'Littlefinger smiled. "Widowhood will become you Sansa"'

It's like saying Quentin is not dead.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Messem, the Tyrells intended everyone to think he choked, LF had different plans. LF arranged the Dwarfs so that Tyrion would get killed and Sansa would be free to marry again.

[messem]

Messem, the Tyrells intended everyone to think he choked, LF had different plans. LF arranged the Dwarfs so that Tyrion would get killed and Sansa would be free to marry again.

Makes sense. But it is a weak plan. All he can do is hope that it works out.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Agreed, but he would have understood Cersei and Tyrions, as well as Tyrion and Tywins relationships better than the Tyrells. He's always talking about knowing what people want to motivate them, Cersei already tried to kill Tyrion and LF may have/ probably knew that.

[Lord Damian]

There are three Sansa's, Sansa the pawn, young Cat and Alayne, his daughter with Cat. He only wants to marry one of them.

When he is telling her to charm young Harry it is with a smile 'while his eyes don't smile as well'.

But maybe he just intends Sansa to be bethrothed. Sansa and Harry is the Vale and Winterfell, but he has the Vale as long as Robin lives. Why give it away to a young boy he cannot influence?

When Sansa has charmed Harry they will be bethrothed. But Sansa must be widowed before they can marry. Maybe a good way to put everything on hold is make Harry a winged knight. He will not be able to marry for three years. As a winged knight of Robin he can lead an army in his stead and die conviently once the job is done and Winterfell theirs.

And all that time Sansa will stay a maid and they will have the Vale, Winterfell and Sansa can be married to someone else to strengjten them.

Yeah, I have thought since AFFC when Littlefinger told Sansa/Alayne about Harry the Heir, he is buying time because no one, not even he can touch/marry her as Tyrion is still alive and the marriage cannot be annuled without revealing her. He is playing a game with her to keep her attention away from what his real intentions may be. Him and her.