Red Crabs, Spiders and Conquerors - The Others revealed

[LmL]

Yes, the Others had left but they were replaced by spirits so strong they brought tears to his eyes. Will these guys ever get a break?

Ah ha ha, I didn't even catch that. I love this about Martin - he's just so damn clever, nothing is without intention. Nothing is random. Even when you think you've got the hang of the metaphor, still it goes deeper.

Nice catch. Who are these spirits???

[Voice]

Older powers awakening?

[LmL]

Stong drink which brings tears to the eyes recalls Bran's tears which burned as he saw the Heart of Winter. If there are spirits to bring tears to the eyes... thats the place right?

Perhaps this means something slightly different. Perhaps this connotes sorrow or regret - like they killed the Others, but they mourned their spirits. Perhaps if the Others really are some sort of ancient corrupted greenseers, perhaps even related to Starks, this could make sense. Killing the Others was bittersweet somehow?

Or perhaps the spirits which bring tears are all thats left after the physical others are gone. Perhaps those spirits are the ones animating the others. Kill the Others, and their spirits still roam free, perhaps able to take another body and turn it to an ice being.

[Voice]

Stong drink which brings tears to the eyes recalls Bran's tears which burned as he saw the Heart of Winter. If there are spirits to bring tears to the eyes... thats the place right?

Indeed. I'd add a few more crying spirits to the list:

1. Recently dead Starks.

The Stark connection to Winter... and those who ride the Winds of Winter... ACOK Theon V:

But there were others with faces he had never known in life, faces he had seen only in stone. The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered with gore could only be Lyanna. Her brother Brandon stood beside her, and their father Lord Rickard just behind. Along the walls figures half-seen moved through the shadows, pale shades with long grim faces. The sight of them sent fear shivering through Theon sharp as a knife. And then the tall doors opened with a crash, and a freezing gale blew down the hall, and Robb came walking out of the night. Grey Wind stalked beside, eyes burning, and man and wolf alike bled from half a hundred savage wounds.

2. The Wall itself

ACOK Jon I:

Sam squinted up at the Wall. It loomed above them, an icy cliff seven hundred feet high. Sometimes it seemed to Jon almost a living thing, with moods of its own. The color of the ice was wont to change with every shift of the light. Now it was the deep blue of frozen rivers, now the dirty white of old snow, and when a cloud passed before the sun it darkened to the pale grey of pitted stone. The Wall stretched east and west as far as the eye could see, so huge that it shrunk the timbered keeps and stone towers of the castle to insignificance. It was the end of the world.

AGOT Prologue:

"And how did you find the Wall?"

"Weeping," Will said, frowning. He saw it clear enough, now that the lordling had pointed it out. "They couldn't have froze. Not if the Wall was weeping. It wasn't cold enough."

The Wall weeps when it isn't cold enough. Like Jaime, it seems most alive and joyous when it's time for a cold fight to the death :devil:

3. Those who cannot express emotion.

AGOT Eddard I:

"They say it grows so cold up here in winter that a man's laughter freezes in his throat and chokes him to death," Ned said evenly. "Perhaps that is why the Starks have so little humor."

AGOT Bran IV:

"The Others," Old Nan agreed. "Thousands and thousands of years ago, a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man. There came a night that lasted a generation, and kings shivered and died in their castles even as the swineherds in their hovels. Women smothered their children rather than see them starve, and cried, and felt their tears freeze on their cheeks." Her voice and her needles fell silent, and she glanced up at Bran with pale, filmy eyes and asked, "So, child. This is the sort of story you like?"

ASOS Chett (Prologue):

Snow was falling.

He could feel tears freezing to his cheeks. It isn't fair, he wanted to scream. Snow would ruin everything he'd worked for, all his careful plans. It was a heavy fall, thick white flakes coming down all about him. How would they find their food caches in the snow, or the game trail they meant to follow east? They won't need Dywen nor Bannen to hunt us down neither, not if we're tracking through fresh snow. And snow hid the shape of the ground, especially by night. A horse could stumble over a root, break a leg on a stone. We're done, he realized. Done before we began. We're lost. There'd be no lord's life for the leechman's son, no keep to call his own, no wives nor crowns. Only a wildling's sword in his belly, and then an unmarked grave. The snow's taken it all from me . . . the bloody snow . . .

Snow had ruined him once before. Snow and his pet pig.

ASOS Samwell I:

If only I was stronger . . . He wasn't, though, and it was no good wishing. Sam was weak, and fat, so very fat, he could hardly bear his own weight, the mail was much too much for him. It felt as though it was rubbing his shoulders raw, despite the layers of cloth and quilt between the steel and skin. The only thing he could do was cry, and when he cried the tears froze on his cheeks.

ASOS Samwell I:

Maslyn screamed for mercy. Why had he suddenly remembered that? It was nothing he wanted to remember. The man had stumbled backward, dropping his sword, pleading, yielding, even yanking off his thick black glove and thrusting it up before him as if it were a gauntlet. He was still shrieking for quarter as the wight lifted him in the air by the throat and near ripped the head off him. The dead have no mercy left in them, and the Others . . . no, I mustn't think of that, don't think, don't remember, just walk, just walk, just walk.

[LmL]

Great stuff Voice. Especially the spirits of Starks being pale shadows, wow, never caught that one. Ding ding!

Anyway, the idea of these spirits you've highlighted definitely seems to be one of sadness. And the connection to Starks is really pretty strong here.

Here's another crying spirit: Alyssa's Tears.

The Vale was narrow here, no more than a half day’s ride across, and the northern mountains seemed so close that Catelyn could almost reach out and touch them. Looming over them all was the jagged peak called the Giant’s Lance, a mountain that even mountains looked up to, its head lost in icy mists three and a half miles above the valley floor. Over its massive western shoulder flowed the ghost torrent of Alyssa’s Tears. Even from this distance, Catelyn could make out the shining silver thread, bright against the dark stone.

When her uncle saw that she had stopped, he moved his horse closer and pointed. “It’s there, beside Alyssa’s Tears. All you can see from here is a flash of white every now and then, if you look hard and the sun hits the walls just right.”

Seven towers , Ned had told her, like white daggers thrust into the belly of the sky, so high you can stand on the parapets and look down on the clouds.

AGOT, CATELYN

This passage is already evocative of the Wall, but the connection is firmed up in this passage:

Still, it was nothing that Tyrion could not manage. He looked off to the east and west, at the Wall stretching before him, a vast white road with no beginning and no end and a dark abyss on either side. West, he decided, for no special reason, and he began to walk that way, following the pathway nearest the north edge, where the gravel looked freshest. His bare cheeks were ruddy with the cold, and his legs complained more loudly with every step, but Tyrion ignored them. The wind swirled around him, gravel crunched beneath his boots, while ahead the white ribbon followed the lines of the hills, rising higher and higher, until it was lost beyond the western horizon. He passed a massive catapult, as tall as a city wall, its base sunk deep into the Wall. The throwing arm had been taken off for repairs and then forgotten; it lay there like a broken toy, half- embedded in the ice.

AGOT, TYRION

Compare:

• shining silver thread, bright against the dark stone
• vast white road with no beginning and no end and a dark abyss on either side.

• shining silver thread
• white ribbon

• Looming over them.. a mountain that even mountains looked up to .. lost in icy mists .. miles above the valley floor
• ahead the white ribbon followed the lines of the hills, rising higher and higher, until it was lost beyond the western horizon.

Of course "a flash of white every now and then, if you look hard and the sun hits the walls just right" is evocative of many other Wall passages we have seen.

There's definitely something going on here with these crying spirits.

[Voice]

Great stuff Voice. Especially the spirits of Starks being pale shadows, wow, never caught that one. Ding ding!

Anyway, the idea of these spirits you've highlighted definitely seems to be one of sadness. And the connection to Starks is really pretty strong here.

:cheers: The North remembers there must always be a Stark in winter fell, the winds of winter is coming the old powers awaken and prepare to ride down upon them.

Here's another crying spirit: Alyssa's Tears.

This passage is already evocative of the Wall, but the connection is firmed up in this passage:

Compare:

• shining silver thread, bright against the dark stone
• vast white road with no beginning and no end and a dark abyss on either side.

• shining silver thread
• white ribbon

• Looming over them.. a mountain that even mountains looked up to .. lost in icy mists .. miles above the valley floor
• ahead the white ribbon followed the lines of the hills, rising higher and higher, until it was lost beyond the western horizon.

I'm hearing Ice Spiders... the milkglass thread extending from their cold hairy arses ;)

Of course "a flash of white every now and then, if you look hard and the sun hits the walls just right" is evocative of many other Wall passages we have seen.

There's definitely something going on here with these crying spirits.

Indeed! It's also evocative of those Others... from which the Wall is meant to shield the realm.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

So this may have been brought up earlier, I kind of skip-hopped through the comment pages, but...

Anyone consider replacing "Others" with "Deep Ones" in the OP? I'm sure Deep Ones are a thing. Might this crab passage not be pointing to a Deep Ones hierarchy that mirrors the Others hierarchy? That feels a lot more sensible and satisfying to me.

Spider Crabs = squishers, an under-the-sea parallel to White Walkers? And then they have folks above and below them. Mermaids above and selkies below, maybe.

Then the Red Crabs can be the parallel to the wights without any color conflict--the bread part of the OP is the only part I don't find convincing. White stew and black bread seem to refer to the environment when these things appear, i.e. a dark winter. And if you want to know "why red crabs as undead hoards?" Google "Christmas Island red crab."

If you think about it the same hierarchy structure of captain, soldier, drone also applies to the CotF: greenseers, skinchangers, warged animals.

[Evolett]

So this may have been brought up earlier, I kind of skip-hopped through the comment pages, but...

Anyone consider replacing "Others" with "Deep Ones" in the OP? I'm sure Deep Ones are a thing. Might this crab passage not be pointing to a Deep Ones hierarchy that mirrors the Others hierarchy? That feels a lot more sensible and satisfying to me.

Spider Crabs = squishers, an under-the-sea parallel to White Walkers? And then they have folks above and below them. Mermaids above and selkies below, maybe.

Then the Red Crabs can be the parallel to the wights without any color conflict--the bread part of the OP is the only part I don't find convincing. White stew and black bread seem to refer to the environment when these things appear, i.e. a dark winter. And if you want to know "why red crabs as undead hoards?" Google "Christmas Island red crab."

If you think about it the same hierarchy structure of captain, soldier, drone also applies to the CotF: greenseers, skinchangers, warged animals.

Well, many things have come to my attention since posting this theory. I have the full post on my blog, Christmas Island Crabs and all :). Perhaps I should delete the OP because the crab metaphores do not represent what I initially thought they did. Deep Ones have been discussed here as an alternatiive but that's not quite it either. After much work, I believe I do know what they represent and shall post that when I've sorted the info out fully. It's rather complex.

Like your take on Illyrio by the way, especially your interpretation of the jewels. Well done :)

[Daendrew]

Great job.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Well, many things have come to my attention since posting this theory. I have the full post on my blog, Christmas Island Crabs and all :). Perhaps I should delete the OP because the crab metaphores do not represent what I initially thought they did. Deep Ones have been discussed here as an alternatiive but that's not quite it either. After much work, I believe I do know what they represent and shall post that when I've sorted the info out fully. It's rather complex.

Like your take on Illyrio by the way, especially your interpretation of the jewels. Well done :)

Sounds awesome!

And thanks. :-)

[Pain killer Jane]

Quite honestly this whole line of inquiry is really damn creepy. If one of these spider crabs jumps on someone's face and lays and egg in their stomach I am OUTTA HERE.

In real life there are those giant coconut crabs. They are damn creepy plus they hunt by smell and along with their diet of fruits and nuts, they do eat dead animals, other crabs and cannibalize other dead coconut crabs......eww. Also I seem to remember that they have caused the death of humans because they can fall out of the trees onto people's heads. Imagine a ten pound rock falling on your head.

Here is a weird tidbit. Lobsters are functionally immortal, meaning they don't die from old age or decay of their bodies. They actually die from exhaustion because of the molting of their shells takes a lot of energy. Plus they also die because of outside forces.

I could see someone in Planetos seeing this and saying well.....how can I translate that form of immortality to mortals and bam we have the precursors to the Ancient Others.