Veltigar Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I did, but what does that paragraph matter? Your guess about Harry's potential to become one of the WInged Knights is rather irrelevant if LF excplicitly says that Harry the Heir simply isn't good enough. He could be ling I suppose, but why would he? And what have we seen about Harry that suggets he is so competent with a sword? First of all, this is a jousting tourney. His skill with swords has nothing to do with his chances. Secondly, what have we seen that suggests that Harry isn't competent? We only have hearsay from LF and Lothor Brune and neither of them have seen him fight. On the other hand, we know that Harry won a tourney for squires in order to win his spurs. A tourney set up by the right and honourable Bronze Yohn Royce, so presumably no shenanigans happened to make it easier for him to win. Also, bear in mind that this isn't an elite tourney like Harrenhal or KL. Most of the jousters here will be rather green, for that is what LF desires for SR's guard. The young flower of the Vale's knighthood. On top of that, LF will probably rig the tourney in order for Harry to make it to the final eight. Besides, if Harry the Heir became one of the WInged Knights LF would have to put his plans regarding Harry's marriage to Sansa on the shelf for three years. Several of the candidates for the position of Winged Knight are married or bethrothed. Mychel Redfort is one of the main candidates for wings and he's married to Ysilla Royce. The WK aren't the KG after all. LF will want Harry to win his wings, because if he does, he'll gain a valuable hostage at the expense of Bronze Yohn. In one swift step LF would control both the Lord and the Heir to the Vale. Plus, by keeping Harry at the Gates, LF can let Sansa continue her attempts to beguile him. If Harry falls head over heals for Sansa, he'll be very easily manipulated. He would be much more favourably inclined to his future father-in-law then, while at the moment he really follows Bronze Yohn in his low regard for LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I agree with Mithras that something is definitely going to happen at this tourney besides the tourney itself. The elder Kettleblack returned with an exhausted horse, what did he bring news of? His sons? Aegon? We don't have that good of a time table to work with as the mountains of the Vale could conceivable hold winter at bay longer there than in the Riverlands. I can't shake the feeling that when LF learns of Aegon that he has Harry killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasallmaechtigeJ Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'm pretty sure LF will want to fill the spots with a. knights of renown, b. knights that make good hostages and c. knights that he can control. Keeping that in mind I guess that Lyn Corbray and Lothar Brune are safe picks. Aside from that, Harry, a Waynwood and basically someone from every major house will comprise the rest. Given that we are talking about LF here, the tourney will be a fake, I suppose LF will arrange the duels to assure favorable results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'm pretty sure LF will want to fill the spots with a. knights of renown, b. knights that make good hostages and c. knights that he can control. Keeping that in mind I guess that Lyn Corbray and Lothar Brune are safe picks. Aside from that, Harry, a Waynwood and basically someone from every major house will comprise the rest. Given that we are talking about LF here, the tourney will be a fake, I suppose LF will arrange the duels to assure favorable results. Corbray is supposedly Littlefinger's enemy, serving as his source on plots against him. It wouldn't really make sense for him to be amongst the guard. Though, granted, he's there at all, so maybe there's been a change of plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 First of all, this is a jousting tourney. His skill with swords has nothing to do with his chances. Secondly, what have we seen that suggests that Harry isn't competent? We only have hearsay from LF and Lothor Brune and neither of them have seen him fight. On the other hand, we know that Harry won a tourney for squires in order to win his spurs. A tourney set up by the right and honourable Bronze Yohn Royce, so presumably no shenanigans happened to make it easier for him to win. Also, bear in mind that this isn't an elite tourney like Harrenhal or KL. Most of the jousters here will be rather green, for that is what LF desires for SR's guard. The young flower of the Vale's knighthood. On top of that, LF will probably rig the tourney in order for Harry to make it to the final eight. Not shenanigans as such. Just limiting the players to the local junior league. A far cry from the best of the Vale, adult league. We know that Bronze Yohn set up the tourney for Harry to win and restricted the players until he stood good chances. Says so straight in the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbent87 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 The timing of this release made me think of March Madness and the Elite 8. I THINK he mentioned that 64 knights arrived to "compete" as well - it wouldn't be the first time GRRM implemented specific teams or sports events into his writing so I don't think that's too off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindsayLohan Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'm surprised anyone actually thinks Harry is going to survive the tournament. Two things we know: 1. GRRM goes out of his way to have two different mentions of how unqualified Harry is to be competing in this tournament. He won a melee of squires that was deliberately set up for him to prevail, meaning the other squires were woefully young or untrained. LF has invited 64 young knights, and it is likely that every single one of them is far more qualified, experienced, and better trained. Somehow Harry the Horrible, with no combat experience and his newly-won knighthood is going to win six straight tilts? Remember what happened to the last young squire from the Vale who competed in a joust after being annointed? HINT: Homeboy died. 2. It's GRRM. We know he likes to see well-made plans gets smashed, and LF has been pitching a perfect game so far. It's time for something to go wrong. The fat man is gonna murder this little turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 It's easy: If Littlefinger wants Harry to succeed, he will. If he wants him to die, he will. The only people I can see fucking up his plans are Lothor Brune and Lyn Corbray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I'm sure Brune likes Mya, but he's Littlefinger's loyal man, and if anyone should know that no good comes of crossing him, it should be him. I doubt he's going to cause problems for his boss just on that basis. I think it depends on the head Lothor Brune uses to do his thinking :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I'm surprised anyone actually thinks Harry is going to survive the tournament. Two things we know: 1. GRRM goes out of his way to have two different mentions of how unqualified Harry is to be competing in this tournament. He won a melee of squires that was deliberately set up for him to prevail, meaning the other squires were woefully young or untrained. LF has invited 64 young knights, and it is likely that every single one of them is far more qualified, experienced, and better trained. Somehow Harry the Horrible, with no combat experience and his newly-won knighthood is going to win six straight tilts? Remember what happened to the last young squire from the Vale who competed in a joust after being annointed? HINT: Homeboy died. 2. It's GRRM. We know he likes to see well-made plans gets smashed, and LF has been pitching a perfect game so far. It's time for something to go wrong. The fat man is gonna murder this little turd. 1. Countervailing argument: Littlefinger emphasizing that he doesn't expect Harry to win is meant to make it more "surprising" when he does. Also, should it not be three tilts? Eight brackets of eight. 2. I'm skeptical about the idea that "it's time for something to go wrong". If you will away the existence of books 4 and 5, this is the first time we're meant to see Littlefinger after the end of ASOS. His new plot is just getting started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Don't tell me who the "favorite". You know damned well that if some minor character is being set up as a "favorite", then he's going to get his ass kicked by some mystery knight who is going to appear. In fact, expect death and bloodshed. It's a bit late in the season for tournaments that are going to turn out to be just fun and games. Three of the best tournament warriors in Westeros are missing in action, just as this tournament is being organized, and all of them have some connection to Sansa. Expect at least one of them to appear: Jaime (or his undead zombie).Brienne (or her undead zombie), probably disguised as male.Some Holy Warrior from the Quiet Isle who wears wool wrap over his lower face, and has taken a vow of silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 GRRM isn't that cheap. He won't use the same trick over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 GRRM isn't that cheap. He won't use the same trick over and over again. What trick are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Three of the best tournament warriors in Westeros are missing in action, just as this tournament is being organized, and all of them have some connection to Sansa. Expect at least one of them to appear: Jaime (or his undead zombie). Brienne (or her undead zombie), probably disguised as male. Some Holy Warrior from the Quiet Isle who wears wool wrap over his lower face, and has taken a vow of silence. This chapter was originally placed in ADWD. Jaime and Brienne are not showing up here. And the Hound is on the other side of the impassable Mountains of the Moon -- not to mention he didn't appear to be in any shape to fight, and there's no reason why he would go to compete in some random tourney in the Vale. The tourney is also invitation-only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 What trick are you talking about? Having a mystery knight show up and defeat everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not a Stark Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Having a mystery knight show up and defeat everyone.Yes, this will be very stupid. A mystery knight intrigue is ok in legends and songs, but it is too naive and simple for current events in asoiaf.Personaly I am not interested in a mystery knight unless it is Sansa. Or Tomen. Or Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojzelote Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I hope Wallace Waynwood makes it. A stammering knight for a shaking lord, lol. (No, seriously it's my sympathy for the underdog speaking. Also it seems certain at least one of the Waynwoods will be in, and Wallace is so far more memorable than Rolland, if only because he stammers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yes, this will be very stupid. A mystery knight intrigue is ok in legends and songs, but it is too naive and simple for current events in asoiaf.Personaly I am not interested in a mystery knight unless it is Sansa. Or Tomen. Or Varys.Especially in an invitation-only tourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 This chapter was originally placed in ADWD. Jaime and Brienne are not showing up here. Why not? They showed up in ADWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Having a mystery knight show up and defeat everyone. When has he used that trick before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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