GRRM considering big twist for a major character

[olenna123]

This book is never coming out, is it?

And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”

This is kind of odd. Why would he announce something like that? I think he is finally begining to realize that the series will tell his story before him and is trying to make the better of the situation. I hope the new plot twist won't delay him even longer.

[Pilusmagnus]

This makes me upset, because we won't actually know what he is talking about. If he decides to go with the twist, then we won't know which one it is, and if he decides not to, then we won't know anyway...

[HexMachina]

I kinda figured that cutting a character from the show would qualify as one decision, not "a couple decisions". (Although I'm still hoping Edric Storm will indeed show up in Season 6.) I also figured that "long-time character" meant someone introduced in AGoT or ACoK, and there weren't that many cuts in the first two seasons that this could apply to. Gendry is still first on my list, due to the way D&D altered his story in a way that he can't realistically return to the book version.

Hmm, but cutting a character would often require other decisions; reworking the story to fill in the gaps that are left by their absence. If we stick with the Edric example, there would be a decision to cut him from the show, the decision to have Gendry fill one of the important roles he plays in the novels, etc. (I don't know why I'm quibbling tbh, maybe I'm just bored :p)

[Endymion I Targaryen]

Osha too is cut from season 5.We know she will return in Winds and we know that Tena's portraying of Osha made GRRM love the character.And she will possibly interact with Davos,Rickon and many other important POV and non-POV characters in the North.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

Doesn't really matter to me, I'm just glad he's enjoying writing again. Hopefully he finishes soon so the book can be released before season 6 of the show.

[Lord Godric]

Doesn't really matter to me, I'm just glad he's enjoying writing again. Hopefully he finishes soon so the book can be released before season 6 of the show.

Me too. He seems to be enjoying thinking of new ideas and that's honestly something I haven't seen from him in a while. He also is making it sound like the writing is coming along easily right now. He is cancelling events, doing less interviews and such because he wants to write. If the writing wasn't coming along I don't think he would be doing such because sitting there staring at a blank DOS screen for too long would just be frustrating and not helpful.

Wit that said, I can't help but notice he's doing exactly what he said he didn't want to do after Dance and that's set artificial deadlines for himself that may upset fans.

[NotSoSilentSister]

Oh, juicy. Of course all we have is wild guessing and baseless speculation, but I happen to be great fan of those particular activities...

1) "The show has already made a couple of decisions that preclude it" - One of those decisions might well be killing off one of the characters involved, but I agree with the poster who said the phrasing sounds like there's more to it. I think it might involve something that's still somewhat ambiguous in the books, but already resolved one way or the other in the show (eg. Stannis and Mel having a sexual relationship; Theon having been castrated by Ramsay; the matter of potential offspring for Robb).

2) The twist probably won't affect the endgame (the heads of the dragons, the main battlelines for the War for Dawn, the ultimate ass on the Iron Throne), which is supposed to be roughly the same for the show as well as the novels. I agree that this seems to suggest a revelation about the past rather than an unexpected turn of character development.

[Eddard Scissorhands]

He really wasn't kidding when he said he was more of a gardener than an architect. We're all theorizing to the point of going crazy while he's not even decided on the fate of his character(s). Wow, just WoW! (pun intended).

:o

[Zylathas]

I think it must be Sansa. That's my first thought when I read that.

[TheHouseHB]

R+L = J anyone? I have a feeling we are going to find out who Jon's parents are in Winds.

[Mithras]

Quote taken from this link: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/03/george-rr-martin-winds-date

In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”

So who do you think he is talking about? And what could the twist be? The show has already made decisions that would prevent the twist?

Now George also knows what happens in season 5 which we have yet to see, so it could relate to season 5 changes, but I am curious what ideas people have.

I think he might have been talking about Shiera + Bloodraven = Mel. Read the interview with this in mind and it makes sense. But I also agree that it might be someone else, like Sansa.

[Katjushka]

Maybe this new twist is what he needs to get excited about writing and finishing the book, so yey but it does also concern me that at this point in the series he's actually in a place where he can change characters stories.. I mean, he should have the whole thing planned and pretty much set to stone, not inventing new plots as he goes along, right?

[TheHouseHB]

Jaime Lannister = Azor Ahai?

[Eddard Scissorhands]

"long-time character" = not Aegon

Well Aegon was a character already mentioned in the first book, albeit as a baby who had its skull bashed in. Just like Howland Reed is a long time character, mentioned, but yet to show up on scene.

[Grayce Hornwood]

Jaime Lannister = Azor Ahai?

:lmao: I like it. And Cersei is his Nissa Nissa.

[White Ravens]

He really wasn't kidding when he said he was more of a gardener then an architect. We're all theorizing to the point of going crazy while he's not even decided on the fate of his character(s). Wow, just WoW! (pun intended).

:o

I'm encouraged by this news. I haven't liked many of the changes that were made for the show anyway. The more divergent the better at this point. I wish GRRM happy gardening.

[White Ravens]

Double post.

Nothing to see here.

[Lady Whiskers Outlaws Beet]

theon suddenly impregnating someone!

no, i don't think this is it, but OMG we can have even more discussions about his genital parts!!!

[Hos the Hostage]

Thanks, OP. What I gathered:

• GRRM is considering a major reveal for a long-time character. I don't think it had anything to do with the major 5, or else he would have said 'major' instead of 'long-time'. Also any reveal about the major characters will affect the endgame, and the endgame is not changed by this reveal. Since the show will spoil th endgame and show will not be affected by the endgame.
  
• Said character's twist in tale will affect 3-4 other characters. I'm intrigued by the term 'various three or four characters'. It seems the characters affected by this reveal belong to different sides or different geographical area.. I mean, if septa lemore is ashara dayne, barristan, joncon, jon snow will all be affected and i'd call is 'various 3-4', but if lollys stokeworth is a skinchanger, it can only affect Bronn, Cersei etc. The argument sounds weak in my own head, but still troubled by 'various'
  
• The reveal will fit in with the stories of the character in question and those surrounding him/her.
  
• The show has made 'a couple' of decisions on the character. Which means its not a character who was cut without mention. Eg: LSH(Cat was a show character, but I hardly think any reveal can be made about LSH now), Strong Belwas. It can't be a character killed off abruptly. Eg: Jojen, Mago, Pyp, Grenn. IIRC, the only change show made about these characters are that they are dead in the show. I could be wrong, of course. It can be Jeyne Westerling, because she was pregnant before she died in the show(two changes).
  
• The character is in the show, most probably alive, but his/her story is altered in the show. Thats a long list. But that kinda excludes Melisandre, because the show has been mostly faithful to Melisandre's story. (Again, I could be wrong, being not a show expert.) Except the Gendry bit. I think the character is more likely to be Gendry than Melisandre, but is BR+SS=Mel, that is indeed a twist, Mel being a secret Targ, while what could we possibly know about Gendry? That he is actually a FM acolyte, being trained by Tobho Mott, HoB&W's ambassador in KL?? He's quite smart for an illiterate blacksmith, after all...but its crackpot.
  
• It need not be an identity reveal, does it? There are already too many X=Y theories running around, and George just added more fuel to these. If Sansa is a skinchanger, it would be a reveal, too. (I don't count Sansa in the major 5. Those are Arya, Jon, Tyrion, Bran and Dany). However the readers are not going to be driven crazy at all if another Stark kid turns out to be a skinchanger. So that's out, I suppose. I think it could be something do with ancestry of some character.
  

To summarize, long-time, in-the-show, most probably alive, modified storyline. That can't be so difficult to guess. One of us will get it right, however crazy it will sound.

North of the Wall:

Mance=Rhaegar. I hate this theory, but that's gonna drive me crazy if George makes it work somehow.

Winterfell:

Hodor: No story change

Osha: Probably, but "

Jeyne Poole: Not significant.

Roose Bolton: Possible. The show cut many of his Harrenhal scenes, and he may end up dead in season 5, but him having any relation to the Others..

Ramsay: Same as his father. Reek background was cut, wasn't it.

Vale:

Bronze Yohn: Possible, but not really a long-time character.

Robin Arryn: Maybe he could be a greenseer. That would explain his improved personality in Alayne I.

Littlefinger: Anything about littlefinger is going to be a twisted reveal.

Westerlands:

Cersei and Jaime were fathered by the mad king. Historically impossible imo, yet so many people support this, so maybe.

Tysha: is the sailor's wife. But GRRM must have thought about it, and not gonna drive us crazy.

Jeyne Westerling seduced Robb using a love potion: Already a theory..not so twisted, given her mother's character.

Riverlands:

Thoros of Myr: I have no idea what's his deal, but something important about him could affect a few characters.

Gendry: Already discussed.

Hot Pie: He's a little bird?? nah.

Auguy: Is an agent of Bloodraven? Bastard of Blackfish (doesn't he have red hair and freckles? or only freckles?)

If I am wrong about in-show, alive assumptions, riverlands is a mine of candidates with a a secret past/lineage/power. Ben Blackthumb, for instance.

Crownlands:

Bronn: He has black hair and black eyes. I'm curious about his ancestry

Pycelle: He is dead in the books, so no.

Loras: not injured. Show seems to have a different fate for Loras.

Qyburn: Same as littlefinger.

Meryn Trant/Boros Blount: Is building up resistance towards poison to kill Tommen??

Ser Pounce: Is secretly working for Arya.

..

enough of this..

Reach:

Mace Tyrell: Is cleverer than Tywin

Lady Olenna: Is working against the Tyrells

Stormlands:

Stannis: Is a better fire-seer than Mel. He IS R'hllor, in fact. Mel did not find him, he found Mel. How's that? :devil:

Davos: running out of ideas.

Across the narrow sea.

Maybe something to do with Quaithe. Or Barristan. Or Jorah.

Dany not a Targaryen, but some orphan girl Viserys bought from Lys? There ARE lemon trees in Lys, and Lyseni have the blood of old valyria, too.

I'm tired of making up stuff. :blink: Sorry for the long post.

[Eddard Scissorhands]

Maybe this new twist is what he needs to get excited about writing and finishing the book, so yey but it does also concern me that at this point in the series he's actually in a place where he can change characters stories.. I mean, he should have the whole thing planned and pretty much set to stone, not inventing new plots as he goes along, right?

My thoughts exactly. I mean a 'big twist' that he hasn't thought of before sounds like something that'd affect the broad strokes.