Lord_Pepsi_Cupps Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Also, in the most technical sense, Sansa would remain the heir to Winterfell, as she would be her brother's heir (absent Robb's will turning up). ;)Imagine if Sansa loses her position to Rickon at the same time she finds out her other brother Robb disinherited her anyway? Can't imagine it would taste good, even in the circumstances... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade of Sunlight Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 The Storm's End godswood was also his. That's not true. Stannis leaves Rolland Storm, for instance, in charge of Dragonstone when he leaves, and he's extremely faithful to the Seven. The ones who were killed or arrested were those whose religious convictions led them to oppose Stannis' destruction of the sept. The godswood was his, but by conquest (though he felt it belong to him it actualy belonged to Renly), and by that definition anything he conquers is his (and since he believes himself King of Westeros everything is his) and though it is true he has not killed everyone who didn't believe his faith he did prosecute those who opposed him, I doubt either Stannis or Mel will allow most lords to keep the seven if he wins the IT. I do believe Stannis is not nearly as firm a believer in the red god as he appears to be, bust as of now his supporters are mostly fanatics, and if he is to gain the support of most the lords of the seven kingdoms he must at least soften his stances on other faiths, but that risks upsetting is current following, basically if he wants to win the seven kingdoms he must carefully walk the tightrope, not to much red god, not to much tolerance, what remains to be seen is if the rope is wide enough for him to balance on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I guess the Scagos story could be told in a few flashbacks by Davos, so we could kick off with Rickon already there.As for Rickon himself - he will be named Lord of Winterfell by Stannis, but this doesn't undermine Sansa's position just yet. By siding with Stannis, Rickon will be attainted by the power in King's Landing, leaving Sansa as the Lady of Winterfell still. Stannis first needs to win the IT, or his appointments are irrelevant.There is of course the question of what Sansa herself will do. She's been longing for family, and has thought about Winterfell as home, rather than as a title - will she really hate it that she's no longer as desirable a match?I guess GRRM won't let her off the hook that easily. She will realise she quite likes being in the thick of things, just as she finds out one of her brothers is alive - and makes her a lot less important. What will she dooooo?Stannis, I wager will be all but pushed asside as if he and the Anti-Bolton faction will consist of a vast majority of Northmen, Stannis will be outnumbered and Rickon will be Lord of Winterfell whether Stannis approves or not. Also, who in the hell is going to kick out Rickon if the Boltons, who would have to be replaced to even get to that point are goners, along with the Freys. Also, Sansa is an attainted and wanted kingslayer so she is not heir to Winterfell over Rickon anytime, anyday unless he dies and is proven too. Also, he is heir to Tulley claims on Riverlands after Edmure and Roslin's half Frey unwanted baby. Of Course Bran has it all pending he can come out of the woods and out of the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlfrommonday Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I guess GRRM won't let her off the hook that easily. She will realise she quite likes being in the thick of things, just as she finds out one of her brothers is alive - and makes her a lot less important. What will she dooooo? In the long run Sansa might get involved in the game where the prize is custody rights of Rickon (and Winterfell). She is her family, her brother and she loves him, but she could live in delusion that Rickon is so easy to control as Sweetrobin. (Almost) Landy of Winterfell. Actually, now I want to see Sansa and Rickon interaction badly - Miss mild manners and Wlid child from Skagos :fencing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maia Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Lord Varys - the point about how just killing Cersei and Tommen doesn't assure them anything is a great one. They need someone on the Iron Throne who is sure to be motivated to repay and will have access to such huge sums. Which any likely regent from either Lannister or Tyrell camp would, on both counts. The idea that it would be too obvious to murder Cersei (and perhaps make it look like an accident, as FM seem to prefer doing), but not too obvious to kill a number of people who could compete with/cause problems for Stannis makes no sense to me. If the Iron Bank controls FM, or vice versa, getting rid of Cersei discreetly and ASAP would have made the most business sense and would have subtly supported IB's reputation re: it being unwise to try to shaft them. The only way to access that much wealth at this stage is the attainment of the Lannisters and the Tyrells (and other traitors of course) - winter has come for however long, no harvests to sell, tax receipt will plummet to nothing, treasury empty, food stores low, etc.. All of this makes it even less likely that Stannis would ever be able to re-pay them, not to mention that even more devastation would hurt their business opportunities in Westeros long-term. Plunder is ever so inefficient and destroys more resources in the process than it collects. Not even victorious wars were truly profitable iRL, no matter how it might have seemed, and they'd need to throw more money hand-over-fist at Stannis for him to have a shot at winning in the first place. Both Lannisters and Tyrells, OTOH, have resources and motivation to pay, once Cersei is gone and some pressure is applied. Stannis is just one of the means to apply that pressure, IMHO. Staking everything on an underdog whose cause would die with him (for all practical purposes) achieving a complete win and then somehow managing to repay them during what looks to become an exceptionally long and severe Winter doesn't srike me as a sound strategy of a successful bank. IMHO, YMMV. Back to the time-line - I don't buy the suggested fan time-line where Arryn household coming down from the Eyrie coincides with or is really close time-wise with Cersei's arrest and Walk of Punishment. Unless GRRM massively re-writes this chapter, they clearly have been at the Gates of Moon for at least a couple of months and the news of Cersei's arrest are about to hit. It is completely impausible that Cersei's fall wouldn't have figured in Sansalayne's thoughts as one of the reasons for her feeling so chipper and alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Stannis should not have all that much trouble paying his debts as the Crown would most likely not pay back the Lannister and Tyrell debts as they were fighting against Stannis. Murdering Cersei could technically have bettered the financial relationship between the Iron Throne and the Iron Bank but not necessarily as a regency is generally a time of unrest and quarrel, and since King Tommen's rule is already contested there is little reason to believe that he would be able to make good on his debts even if he wanted to. War is costly, after all. And we should not forget that the Iron Bank may be aware of other developments as well - especially Daenerys - and may have decided to back Stannis to prevent her eventual rise. The Braavosi are no friends of dragons, after all. Neither Dany nor Aegon should be particularly eager to pay back Baratheon loans - especially not loans that essentially helped stabilize an illegitimate regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade of Sunlight Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Stannis should not have all that much trouble paying his debts as the Crown would most likely not pay back the Lannister and Tyrell debts as they were fighting against Stannis. Murdering Cersei could technically have bettered the financial relationship between the Iron Throne and the Iron Bank but not necessarily as a regency is generally a time of unrest and quarrel, and since King Tommen's rule is already contested there is little reason to believe that he would be able to make good on his debts even if he wanted to. War is costly, after all. And we should not forget that the Iron Bank may be aware of other developments as well - especially Daenerys - and may have decided to back Stannis to prevent her eventual rise. The Braavosi are no friends of dragons, after all. Neither Dany nor Aegon should be particularly eager to pay back Baratheon loans - especially not loans that essentially helped stabilize an illegitimate regime. Still Stannis is more likely to have trouble paying the debt than Tommen, who has the wealth of the Lannisters and the Tyrels if it came to that, and Stannis would probably need to spend twice as much as him to win a war as well. Regencys are times of unrest, but much less unrest than open war. Stannis has little supporters so his rule is more contested than Tommen's. And if they want to oppose the Dragons they would be better of supporting the current king than having an internal war and then having an external war against Dany, unless they truly believe that Stannis is AA, which doesn't strike me as likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Well, it was George who decided to send Tycho to Stannis. You'll have to take it up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade of Sunlight Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Well, it was George who decided to send Tycho to Stannis. You'll have to take it up with him. I have no doubt they have interest in treating with Stannis, I just think they might actually be interested in generating internal strife in Westeros, an ulterior motive besides the repayment of a loan, I just don't know what... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Imagine if Sansa loses her position to Rickon at the same time she finds out her other brother Robb disinherited her anyway?Can't imagine it would taste good, even in the circumstances...Thus far Sansa's attitude towards being heir to Winterfell has been dislike, for the most part, so I'm not sure she would care that much. Even in this chapter, the "new" Sansa really doesn't display any evident signs of ambition, which was one of the things people were wondering about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Just in case, isn't this thread about fitting the chapter in the timeline? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 ^Well I think thats a pretty short discussion. I see 3 ways to fit the chapter into the timeline. 1, its snowing in the mountains but not on the floor of the Vale.2, the mad mouse arrived in Sansa's last chapter in feast, which was not too long of a journey from Gulltown, and it took a couple months to get the tourny together.3, no one in any other chapter mentions a great tournament in the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion I Targaryen Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The news of Cersei's arrest have reached Riverrun (Feast) and Dorne (Dance).So this must be too early.There is also no mention of dragons/war at Slaver's Bay which is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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