Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Rhaenys_Targaryen

Detailed ASOIAF timeline v. 2

Recommended Posts

And how does the Tower of the Hand place it in 282 AC?

They don't go into detail.

http://www.towerofthehand.com/essays/johnny/roberts_rebellion.html

I've only Just noticed that you have the Wiki link thingy on your signature. I didn't mean any offence or anything when I said I find the TofH to be more reliable than the wiki. I think what you guys are doing with the timeline is brilliant, but the Wiki is consistently full of mistakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They don't go into detail.

http://www.towerofthehand.com/essays/johnny/roberts_rebellion.html

I've only Just noticed that you have the Wiki link thingy on your signature. I didn't mean any offence or anything when I said I find the TofH to be more reliable than the wiki. I think what you guys are doing with the timeline is brilliant, but the Wiki is consistently full of mistakes.

No offense taken :) I've seen that Tower of the Hand timeline a few times as well, but couldn't find a satisfactory explanation as to how they got to the dates.. Meanwhile, we are told somewhere close to mid-300 AC that the Battle of the Bells occured 17 years ago (300-17=283 AC), and we are told as well that the wedding of Catelyn and Ned, occuring shortly after the Battle of the Bells, occured 15 years ago in 298 AC (298-15=283 AC). So until we get further evidence that these dates should not be taken literally, I'd say that 283 AC is the date.

The wiki indeed does contain mistakes, though a lot of people have been working very hard to try and fix them. Should you find any, either list them in the wiki-thread (if you wish to discuss them first, or don't know how to fix it), or edit it yourself. Should you happen to find a mistake in the timeline project (years of birth, years of death, and other timeline-issues), please follow the link in my signature, happy to discuss and find the correct answer there.

Edit: also take notice that that timeline was uploaded in 2005, if I'm not mistaken. That's ten years ago, missing out on JonCon giving details about the battle in Dance (2011)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No offense taken :) I've seen that Tower of the Hand timeline a few times as well, but couldn't find a satisfactory explanation as to how they got to the dates.. Meanwhile, we are told somewhere close to mid-300 AC that the Battle of the Bells occured 17 years ago (300-17=283 AC), and we are told as well that the wedding of Catelyn and Ned, occuring shortly after the Battle of the Bells, occured 15 years ago in 298 AC (298-15=283 AC). So until we get further evidence that these dates should not be taken literally, I'd say that 283 AC is the date.

The wiki indeed does contain mistakes, though a lot of people have been working very hard to try and fix them. Should you find any, either list them in the wiki-thread (if you wish to discuss them first, or don't know how to fix it), or edit it yourself. Should you happen to find a mistake in the timeline project (years of birth, years of death, and other timeline-issues), please follow the link in my signature, happy to discuss and find the correct answer there.

Cool. :)

I think it's tricky when all we have is "x years ago", because something that happened, say, 20 years ago didn't necessarily happen in 1995...

I've started searching for any relevant clues about this in all five books, but I've only just started and haven't found much yet.

We do have a conversation between Ned and Robert (when they're en route to KL from Winterfell), and found this:

(Robert asks Ned about 'that common girl of yours')

Ned's mouth tightened in anger. "Leave it be, Robert, for the love you say you bear me. I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men."

"Gods have mercy, you scarcely knew Catelyn."

"I had taken her to wife. She was carrying my child."

Of course, Ned might have been lying to Robert about his 'affair' happening when Cat was already pregnant, but I don't see why he'd do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's some info at The Citadel; it's about Jon only,but it does give us an idea about when Jon was born, which is 'within one month, give or take, of the Sack [of King's Landing]'.

And there's this SSM where Martin says that Jon 'was not born more than one year before Dany, probably closer to eight or nine months or thereabouts'.

Combined with information from TWoIaF we can now narrow that month down to roughly a fortnight (give or take).

Reason being the rape of Rhaella a fortnight before the battle at the Trident happens 9 months before Dany is born. The Sack of King's Landing happens a fortnight after the battle at the Trident, thus 8 months before Dany is born. Given Jon was born about eight or nine months before Dany, he was born around the time of above events.

The Robellion ends with the Sack of King's Landing. It starts a year earlier in the vale, when Jon Arryn calls his banners. From there, Robert, who is first fighting the battle of Gulltown ships to Storm's End, spends two months riding to battle in Summerhall, back to Storm's End, then to Ashford, where he is first defeated. From there he rides and rallies at Stoney Sept for the Battle of the Bells, which happens more than four months into that "year". After the battle, the Tully girls marry Jon Arryn and Ned Stark and then, Robb may be conceived, allowing him less than the necessary nine months to be born earlier than Jon Snow. This leads into speculating Jon may well be the older of the two.

The other thing I've noticed is that the Wiki of Ice and Fire places the Battle of the Bells in 283 AC, while the Tower of the Hand, much more reliable imo, places it in late 282 AC.

From all we know at the moment, that should be 283.

Personally, I think Robb was a few months older than Jon.

That seems hardly feasible without either overstretching that year by many months, or rewriting the pre-Battle-of-the-Bells Robellion timeline to contain fewer distances to cover travelling the Realm.

Still, Robb might be older than Jon Snow, but only by a couple of days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course, Ned might have been lying to Robert about his 'affair' happening when Cat was already pregnant, but I don't see why he'd do that.

He had to make Jon the younger son. Otherwise, Catelyn might feel endangered that Jon would get legitimised (naturally by Cat dying and Ned marrying Jon's mom ... or some mad king de-bastarding him) and steal Robb's birthright. Ned must have given it some thought. So he was consistent with Cat and Robert in that respect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He had to make Jon the younger son. Otherwise, Catelyn might feel endangered that Jon would get legitimised (naturally by Cat dying and Ned marrying Jon's mom ... or some mad king de-bastarding him) and steal Robb's birthright. Ned must have given it some thought. So he was consistent with Cat and Robert in that respect.

Hmm dunno. That seems to be much more calculating than Ned seems to be capable of, imo.

Regarding the length of RR, I thought it was just under one year. Also, why you say Robb may have been conceived when Ned married Cat? When else could he have been conceived?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm dunno. That seems to be much more calculating than Ned seems to be capable of, imo.

Regarding the length of RR, I thought it was just under one year. Also, why you say Robb may have been conceived when Ned married Cat? When else could he have been conceived?

RR lasted 'close to a year' and the Siege at SE lasted 'close to a year'... Yet the Siege started months into the war, and ended only a few weeks after wars end, showing that RR itself lasted slightly more, and the siege slightly less, than a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm dunno. That seems to be much more calculating than Ned seems to be capable of, imo.

Regarding the length of RR, I thought it was just under one year. Also, why you say Robb may have been conceived when Ned married Cat? When else could he have been conceived?

That's not very reliable, since you could as well state that the Rebellion lasted two years or more, from Jon Arryn raising his banners to Stannis capturing Dragonstone about eight months after the Sack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe I've noticed a problem with Arya's timeline in ASOS, specifically Arya IV and V. I'm not sure if these dates mark the beginning or end of a chapter, as eight days pass within Arya IV, but there is an issue either way. Arya V is marked on the 11/17, five days after Arya IV. In Arya V it is mentioned that they were in 'Acorn Hall, not a fortnight past.' Unless I'm overlooking something, this seems like an error to me.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The distance by road assumptions have King's Landing closer to the Trident than Lannisport, but Yoren tells us otherwise in Arya III, Game 32.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The distance by road assumptions have King's Landing closer to the Trident than Lannisport, but Yoren tells us otherwise in Arya III, Game 32.

Could it be he meant "time it takes to travel", and not "actual distance"?

Looking at any map, King's Landing is closer by..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could it be he meant "time it takes to travel", and not "actual distance"?

Looking at any map, King's Landing is closer by..

I doubt climbing the Golden Tooth takes less time than walking past the God's Eye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't there a pass through the Golden Tooth?

I guess there aren't too many mountain passes in the low countries, eh? You still have to climb up, just not all the way to the top. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did a reread and out of curiousity I thought I'd figure out which POV characters had the most appearences in days....Here goes


Arya 422


Jon 270 (If Samwell's one year at CB is included the number is 423)


Theon 258


Bran 219


Tyrion 203


Dany 224


Samwell 85 (if you include the notation in ADWD Jon's chapter that Sam has been at CB for a year the number is 412)


Catelyn 83


Jamie 63


Cersei 60


Asha 59


Sansa 49


Arianne 41


Vic 36


Quentyn 34


Brienne 33


Davos 46


Eddard 29


Barristan 8


Aeron 3


Connington 2


Hotah 2


Arys 1


Mel 1


days and days=2


a few days=3


more days=4


Please note, no estimated traveltimes, other than specifically noted in the books, are included in the above numbers..


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe I've noticed a problem with Arya's timeline in ASOS, specifically Arya IV and V. I'm not sure if these dates mark the beginning or end of a chapter, as eight days pass within Arya IV, but there is an issue either way. Arya V is marked on the 11/17, five days after Arya IV. In Arya V it is mentioned that they were in 'Acorn Hall, not a fortnight past.' Unless I'm overlooking something, this seems like an error to me.

Just wanted to bump this. Seems like a pretty glaring problem to me.

In fixing the problem, Arya IV seems quite tied to 11/12, due to the sync with the Karstark men, unless that story could be pushed back somehow. The chapter ends on the eighth day of travelling since arriving at Lychester's Keep - so 11/19. Arya V, at Stoney Sept, takes place less than two weeks later - 'not a fortnight past' - so that could refer to any date from around 11/28-12/2 (We'll have to go on the lower end of that for the sake of the RW.)

By Arya VIII, they have returned to High Heart - but they are no longer looking for the lightning lord, so it's possible the journey took a lot less time than the two weeks it took for from to reach Stoney Sept from High Heart. We'll say it took about a week - placing the date at around 12/5 for Arya VIII, when she's captured by Sandor. Ten days later the Red Wedding occurs.

This is far from perfect, but the problem between Arya IV and V cannot be overlooked. We receive definite spans of time in these and that cannot be ignored. If Cat's chapters could be pushed back for the Karstark sync AND pushed forward later on to allow more time to pass before the Red Wedding takes place it could work, but this seems unlikely. I also fear the Red Wedding cannot be pushed forward any further due to sync with both King's Landing and Dragonstone. Though even having the murder of the Lannister children being pushed back could fix some of these discrepancies with Arya's story. Though we may have to mark this off as another impossible one.

Anyone have anything to add or deny?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi! I have some doubts:

 

How sure can we be about the date of the chapter AGOT Bran II? From ASOIAF Timeline - Vandal Proof, it is placed at 08/05/298

 

Also, how sure can we be about the date of Rhaego's birth (aka Dany's miscarriage). Currently, estimated at 20/01/299.

 

Can this dates be a little later or before? And how long? (A interval with the possible dates would be appreciated).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi! I have some doubts:
 
How sure can we be about the date of the chapter AGOT Bran II? From ASOIAF Timeline - Vandal Proof, it is placed at 08/05/298
 
Also, how sure can we be about the date of Rhaego's birth (aka Dany's miscarriage). Currently, estimated at 20/01/299.
 
Can this dates be a little later or before? And how long? (A interval with the possible dates would be appreciated).

Will check it put as soon as I can. From memory, though, Bran II from AGOT is when he falls, which is all connected to Joff's nameday, and Roberts travel to Winterfell.

Rhaego's birth is connected to the red comet, which needs to appear before Joff's nameday.

I have my doubts that Bran II can be moved further into the year, and definitely not by much.. he needs to recover, teach a horse to ride, and watch Robb prepare for and march to war.

Similar for Rhaego. If his 'birth' moves up further into the year, so does Joff's namedat, which would give trouble with most of the timeline of AGOT, and part if ACOK.

Can't recall, atm, whether any of those dates will change in the update. I think Rhaego's date by a few days, but can't recall Bran II atm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Found a mess with the brthdays. Any idea how to solve that?

 

11/8 Sansa's birthday should be less than one moon's turn later (line 225, though I didn't find that reference in the text)

12/5 Sansa's birthday (line 9, 83, 253), pretty much one moon later, not "less".

Maybe the reference is just an error.

 

8/2 Jon Snow's birthday (line 37, 177)

9/13 Robb Stark's birthday (line 51, 190)

But Robb is older (at least officially), not six weeks younger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Found a mess with the brthdays. Any idea how to solve that?

 

11/8 Sansa's birthday should be less than one moon's turn later (line 225, though I didn't find that reference in the text)

12/5 Sansa's birthday (line 9, 83, 253), pretty much one moon later, not "less".

Maybe the reference is just an error.

 

8/2 Jon Snow's birthday (line 37, 177)

9/13 Robb Stark's birthday (line 51, 190)

But Robb is older (at least officially), not six weeks younger.

Jon's nameday had a warning behind it stating that he should be younger, reasons stated, but can't be placed there in the timeline for reasons explained there as well.

 

Adjusted the text for row 225.

 

Will keep Sansa's nameday in mind for the bigger update, to ensure it is still correct there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×