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James Steller

Why was Edmure still unmarried?

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We don't know when exactly Edmure was born, but at the very latest, he's 24 or 25 around the beginning of AGOT. In ASOS, Robb is able to negotiate with the Freys because Edmure, the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, is still an available bachelor.

How come he wasn't already married? He's the only son of the Tully family, that gives him the extremely important task of continuing the Tully line. Hoster Tully had Catelyn engaged and promised before she was 14 years old, and Lysa married Jon Arryn when she was 16. And it's not like Hoster was unique in Westeros for early engagements: Brandon Stark was fifteen when he was engaged to Catelyn. Joffrey and Sansa were arranged before Joffrey became King or Sansa had even flowered.

How come Edmure didn't get an engagement till it was literally forced on him?

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Good question, and while I'd expect the answer is the dullest one (plot), it is still fun to consider. Perhaps Hoster was afraid of losing Edmure, the same way he had lost his Bryndan? So instead of forcing a match, he waited until Edmure was ready.


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Good question, and while I'd expect the answer is the dullest one (plot), it is still fun to consider. Perhaps Hoster was afraid of losing Edmure, the same way he had lost his Bryndan? So instead of forcing a match, he waited until Edmure was ready.

Given that this is the man who Edmure was convinced didn't love him or take pride in him, the same man who wouldn't speak to his brother for half their lives because of Brynden's refusal to marry, and the same man who forced an abortion on his daughter, I doubt that reason to be the one. Hoster seems like a man obsessed with family, duty, and honour, and his son's lack of a family at 25 (or even 30, who knows) seems very strange and out of character for him.

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Given that this is the man who Edmure was convinced didn't love him or take pride in him, the same man who wouldn't speak to his brother for half their lives because of Brynden's refusal to marry, and the same man who forced an abortion on his daughter, I doubt that reason to be the one. Hoster seems like a man obsessed with family, duty, and honour, and his son's lack of a family at 25 (or even 30, who knows) seems very strange and out of character for him.

I agree with you here, but as I think the honest answer is 'George needed Edmure to be single for the Red Wedding', it is the best that my limited imagination could come up with.

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Hoster was probably biding his time, the Tullys were already allied in marriage to The North and The Vale. The next logical step would be Dorne, Stormlands or The Reach. He may well have tried to ally with Dorne through Arianne, but as we know Doran would have rejected the offer. He may have been waiting for Shireen to come of age, but when the war came she was too young. We know Hoster had no problem with age difference given Jon and Lysa. The other option would have been Margaery but events made that obviously impossible.


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I always thought that maybe he was simply taking a leaf out of his uncle's book: "if the Blackfish can refuse a betrothal and avoid marriage, then so can I" type of thing. He didn't seem to have a great relationship with his dad so maybe it was some kind of rebellion - his father wants him to get married, so he doesn't want to.


Or maybe it's just a plot device and we'll never really know.


Maybe he just wasn't interested in women - though, his marriage to Roslin probably discounts that idea.


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Given that this is the man who Edmure was convinced didn't love him or take pride in him, the same man who wouldn't speak to his brother for half their lives because of Brynden's refusal to marry, and the same man who forced an abortion on his daughter, I doubt that reason to be the one. Hoster seems like a man obsessed with family, duty, and honour, and his son's lack of a family at 25 (or even 30, who knows) seems very strange and out of character for him.

It does seem a bit weird, but I'm thinking there was something of a paucity of options as well as a precedent of sorts.

As far as paucity of options, there aren't many obvious options. Looking at this vassals:

Blackwood doesn't have any daughters of an age to marry.

Whent is super closely related and pretty much dead at that point (or married to Walder Frey).

Frey is on Hoster's shit list.

Mallister doesn't have any daughters

Darry is all men and also close to dying out, also probably on Hoster's shit list

Then you look at other regions:

Vale - No LP daughters to wed. Royce has a daughter of indeterminate age. Apparently no Corbray or Hunter daughters.

North - No female starks, Ryswells married off to Lord Dustin and Roose by RR. You have Alys, but she's much younger. Greatjon has daughters but we know nothing about them.

Reach - Brynden refused to marry Bethany Redwyne, so three prominent reach houses are likely to refuse any offer (Redwyne, Rowan, Tyrell -- possibly Hightower as well) as they are closely connected by marriage and blood

Dorne - Arianne is of an age but her father was saving her for Viserys. All of Oberyn's daughters are bastard born. Female Dayne is already engaged to Beric

Stormlands - no baratheon females, no apparent females in the big vassals

Westerlands - Cersei is married to robert, don't know much about daughters of prominent houses

He's also married both his daughters to LPs. He would probably want something as prominent for Edmure.

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I always thought that maybe he was simply taking a leaf out of his uncle's book: "if the Blackfish can refuse a betrothal and avoid marriage, then so can I" type of thing. He didn't seem to have a great relationship with his dad so maybe it was some kind of rebellion - his father wants him to get married, so he doesn't want to.

Or maybe it's just a plot device and we'll never really know.

Maybe he just wasn't interested in women - though, his marriage to Roslin probably discounts that idea.

Cat chides him on coming back from a whorehouse at one point.

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It does seem a bit weird, but I'm thinking there was something of a paucity of options as well as a precedent of sorts.

As far as paucity of options, there aren't many obvious options. Looking at this vassals:

Blackwood doesn't have any daughters of an age to marry.

Whent is super closely related and pretty much dead at that point (or married to Walder Frey).

Frey is on Hoster's shit list.

Mallister doesn't have any daughters

Darry is all men and also close to dying out, also probably on Hoster's shit list

Then you look at other regions:

Vale - No LP daughters to wed. Royce has a daughter of indeterminate age. Apparently no Corbray or Hunter daughters.

North - No female starks, Ryswells married off to Lord Dustin and Roose by RR. You have Alys, but she's much younger. Greatjon has daughters but we know nothing about them.

Reach - Brynden refused to marry Bethany Redwyne, so three prominent reach houses are likely to refuse any offer (Redwyne, Rowan, Tyrell -- possibly Hightower as well) as they are closely connected by marriage and blood

Dorne - Arianne is of an age but her father was saving her for Viserys. All of Oberyn's daughters are bastard born. Female Dayne is already engaged to Beric

Stormlands - no baratheon females, no apparent females in the big vassals

Westerlands - Cersei is married to robert, don't know much about daughters of prominent houses

He's also married both his daughters to LPs. He would probably want something as prominent for Edmure.

Lord Bracken has 5 daughters, and Edmure couldn't marry any of them?

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Here's my idea for it.



Hoster could marry his two daughters to Great Houses, so maybe it got to his head where he wouldn't consider any marriage with something beyond a Great House? That essentially narrows it down to Margarery and Arianne and it seems that both Mace and Doran wouldn't settle with Arianne becoming Lady Tully.


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Huh, that's a






He's also married both his daughters to LPs. He would probably want something as prominent for Edmure.








Here's my idea for it.



Hoster could marry his two daughters to Great Houses, so maybe it got to his head where he wouldn't consider any marriage with something beyond a Great House? That essentially narrows it down to Margarery and Arianne and it seems that both Mace and Doran wouldn't settle with Arianne becoming Lady Tully.





Good points.


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We know for a fact that he reached out to the Martells, as Arianne reflects that she was overjoyed at the offer, but Doran immediately squashed it.



Other than Dorne, though, he doesn't seem to have made too much of an effort. I suspect it's a combination of plot, no really eligible young bachelorettes, and no real need to hurry.


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Logically Edmure was the best candidate for Margery, the marriage would have been the best deal for both regions, and the Riverlands is similar to the reach, so Margery would have probably liked to live there, and Edmure is a good man, he would be the perfect husband and son in law for Mace. But like Olenna said, Mace is an idiot, end of story.


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Lord Bracken has 5 daughters, and Edmure couldn't marry any of them?

Probably. Meant to address that in there. I'm guessing the prominence / ally building prevented that. Cat called Bracken one of Hoster's oldest and most loyal bannermen.

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Didn't Hoster invite Arianne Martell to visit Riverrun, but her father declined? Presumably that was so she and Edmure could meet and eventually marry. Perhaps, as others have suggested, Hoster was hoping for a marriage to a LP family and so kept declining proposals.


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Despite being terribly un-ideal, Hoster was probably holding out for Arianne Martell, or Margery Tyrell. In Arianne's case, it seemed a pretty terrible idea, as Arianne was the heir to Dorne, and thus a marriage between two rulers would never have worked out given the distances. Margery would have been perfect, but the Tyrells had bigger plans for her than Edmure.


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