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Which is actually a bit over the top in the books too. What does Marg not being a virgin anymore even prove? That house Tyrell lied to Tywin/the crown about that and nothing more. Marg was married to Renly before after all, so slut-shaming is out, just proves that the Tyrells are lying liars that lie. Now that's special. Not. The adultery charge (during her marriages to Joff/Tommen) is way more important for the trail IMHO.

That's what Cersei is counting on. She's convinced that Margaery and Renly must have had sex at some point, despite his preferences: "A man may prefer the taste of hippocras, yet if you set a tankard of ale before him, he will quaff it quick enough." But because the Tyrells claimed Margaery was a virgin before her marriage to Joffrey - and because he died before their wedding night - the implication is that Margaery must have had sex since being married to Tommen, hence it supports the previously-weak claim of her adultery.

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The sons of harpy cliffhanger will be Barry riding Drogon and conquering Westeros. Nahhhh but i think it will be Hizdahr giving his marriage proposal to Dany. But Barry will die unfortunately.

That Sophie interview where she says shes a 'prisoner'. Seems like to me more and more evidence is building up towards the Ramsay and Sansa marriage. And that they arrive in Winterfell before episode 4. which is a real bummer imo. I was hoping to get more Reek scenes before Sansa got there. But Seriously, who TF goes from the Vale to Winterfell and then to KL. :bang:

Sue from WOTW mentioned a 'suicide mission with the funny sidekick' or something. This has to be Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne. Cersei must send him there hoping he wont come back....which is really strange. Can't say I'm surprised about the reception to the Sandsnakes so far. I've said from the start it was a mistake to make them the focus of the Dorne storyline. And with no one character wanting 'peace' it will be very cringy i feel.

Just why do they remove one of Jons most badass lines? it's not even about the line, its supposed to represent the 'northern way' how similar jon and ned are. The block makes it clear this is going to be a beheading...

I'm starting to think...maybe Stannis takes his whole family with him on his journey south? i mean with all the chaos after Hardhome will there even be room for their presence at castle black?

The polygon article used this sentence, not Sue.

And they don't remove the line, they just changed it. I think "sword" will work just as well as "block", like Ned said:

The man who passes the sentence, should swing the sword.

(Then again, I never understood this huge outrage because of "Your sister" instead of "Only Cat" :dunno:)

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Where's the 5 sub forum? Premiere is in 5 days.

Exactly. This would have also helped to divide the topics. Now we have a massive amount of different speculation in one topic. This often leads to offtopic and threads being locked.

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What's disheartening for me about reports of Tommen/Margaery is how it seems to completely undermine the Cersei/Tommen/Margaery triangle. With a pre-sexual Tommen, Cersei and Margaery are on a more or less level playing field with respect to Tommen's affections, and the nature of Cersei's relationship to Tommen is thrown into rather harsh and unflattering light. But once we enter into the field of sexual seduction and sex, Cersei can not legitimately compete (we should hope!). A situation that invited critique of Cersei's parenting and of her flawed self-perception becomes one that might rather provoke pity for the aging mother who sees herself replaced by her son's lover/wife. Which of course is a perfectly legit theme, and not even 100% absent from the novels, but is hardly what I think of first when I think of Cersei's character.



I really do wonder if we're going to see a Cersei whose inflated opinion of her own abilities sets up disaster after disaster, or a Cersei who simply can't see that her time is up and that she should pass the throne along to the younger, more beautiful generation.

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What's disheartening for me about reports of Tommen/Margaery is how it seems to completely undermine the Cersei/Tommen/Margaery triangle. With a pre-sexual Tommen, Cersei and Margaery are on a more or less level playing field with respect to Tommen's affections, and the nature of Cersei's relationship to Tommen is thrown into rather harsh and unflattering light. But once we enter into the field of sexual seduction and sex, Cersei can not legitimately compete (we should hope!). A situation that invited critique of Cersei's parenting and of her flawed self-perception becomes one that might rather provoke pity for the aging mother who sees herself replaced by her son's lover/wife. Which of course is a perfectly legit theme, and not even 100% absent from the novels, but is hardly what I think of first when I think of Cersei's character.

I really do wonder if we're going to see a Cersei whose inflated opinion of her own abilities sets up disaster after disaster, or a Cersei who simply can't see that her time is up and that she should pass the throne along to the younger, more beautiful generation.

Tommen was his mom's puppet in the book because he was a just kid. Obviously this show had other ideas with Tommen and I think it's for the best. In the books, it's all about "waiting for Tommen to be old enough" to consummate the marriage. Well we didn't have 5 years in the TV series to waste.

The scene in the crypt between him and Tywin, cemented the fact to me that he being older was a benefit to the audience.

"Your brother was not a good king"

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the only positive thing i see about these changes to the KL storyline is that hopefully cersei fucks up these tyrells flops way harder in the show than the books. i would love it if tv margaery imprisonment is much much more serious on the show, unlike the books in which evidence against her is weak.



i'm sick of how lucky the tyrells have been, they need to start suffering and dying imo.



A situation that invited critique of Cersei's parenting and of her flawed self-perception becomes one that might rather provoke pity for the aging mother who sees herself replaced by her son's lover/wife. Which of course is a perfectly legit theme, and not even 100% absent from the novels, but is hardly what I think of first when I think of Cersei's character.




a trope that i highly HIGHLY DISLIKE. it makes the prophecy much more trite-y snow white on the show while in the books its much more like a greek tragedy imo.



but yeah this is definitely the trope that D&D are aiming for (while GRRM only uses it subtly imo) as tv cersei has also only been sexual with jaime and lancel


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a trope that i highly HIGHLY DISLIKE. it makes the prophecy much more trite-y snow white on the show while in the books its much more like a greek tragedy imo.

but yeah this is definitely the trope that D&D are aiming for (while GRRM only uses it subtly imo) as tv cersei has only been sexual with jaime and lancel

The issue regarding this situation is that Cersei's character, whilst definitely batshit insane on the books, is being given legitimate reasons for her paranoia. Apparently, Margaery is manipulating Tommen on the show with all the sex, so I'm not really surprised.

After Sansa goes to Winterfell, few things would shock me. Them pulling snow-white is not surprising at all.

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The issue regarding this situation is that Cersei's character, whilst definitely batshit insane on the books, is being given legitimate reasons for her paranoia. Apparently, Margaery is manipulating Tommen on the show with all the sex, so I'm not really surprised.

After Sansa goes to Winterfell, few things would shock me. Them pulling snow-white is not surprising at all.

imo her paranoia is legit in the books too.

the tyrells did kill her son and keep on making shady remarks about tommen's parentage and were being creeps about wanting tommen and margaery to sleep on the same bed.

this is more explicit though i agree.

like i said, hopefully this means that the tyrells also suffer more explicitly, i'm so over them. they need to go.

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The sons of harpy cliffhanger will be Barry riding Drogon and conquering Westeros. Nahhhh but i think it will be Hizdahr giving his marriage proposal to Dany. But Barry will die unfortunately.

That Sophie interview where she says shes a 'prisoner'. Seems like to me more and more evidence is building up towards the Ramsay and Sansa marriage. And that they arrive in Winterfell before episode 4. which is a real bummer imo. I was hoping to get more Reek scenes before Sansa got there. But Seriously, who TF goes from the Vale to Winterfell and then to KL. :bang:

Sue from WOTW mentioned a 'suicide mission with the funny sidekick' or something. This has to be Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne. Cersei must send him there hoping he wont come back....which is really strange. Can't say I'm surprised about the reception to the Sandsnakes so far. I've said from the start it was a mistake to make them the focus of the Dorne storyline. And with no one character wanting 'peace' it will be very cringy i feel.

Just why do they remove one of Jons most badass lines? it's not even about the line, its supposed to represent the 'northern way' how similar jon and ned are. The block makes it clear this is going to be a beheading...

I'm starting to think...maybe Stannis takes his whole family with him on his journey south? i mean with all the chaos after Hardhome will there even be room for their presence at castle black?

I think some people may be jumping the gun on the sand snakes and Dorne

Sue from Watchersonthewall.com just confirmed that they were hardly in the first 4 episodes

( which explains why a lot of critics aren't even talking about them)

She said she remembered seeing them in only one scene and they barely even spoke during that scene lol

Based on what she was describing the EW review now seems really ridiculous because they had people thinking that they saw a lot of the sand snakes in the first 4 episodes and they claimed that the sand snakes were closer to B-movie bad girls than warriors but if they made that call based on one scene ( that the sand snakes hardly even talked in)

Then they are idiots

P.S She also said the Ellaria Sand in the TV show was very different from Ellaria or Arianne from the novels but she thinks Indira Varma was still really good and wonderful in the role

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No denying Cersei is batshit in Feast but I agree her paranoia of The Tyrells was justified in the novels

imo her paranoia is legit in the books too.

the tyrells did kill her son and keep on making shady remarks about tommen's parentage and were being creeps about wanting tommen and margaery to sleep on the same bed.

Oh, I agree with both of you. Cersei has her reasons, for sure. I was referring to how in the show, I think they'll just cut the "batshit" bit and just go with her legitimate reasons. Esp with this Margaery, which doesn't really need any craziness to be a threat. I also don't think they'll go with the "Olenna's coin in Tyrion's cell", but rather just with the Margaery-Cersei rivalry angle, and the "fading power" bit.

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Oh, I agree with both of you. Cersei has her reasons, for sure. I was referring to how in the show, I think they'll just cut the "batshit" bit and just go with her legitimate reasons. Esp with this Margaery, which doesn't really need any craziness to be a threat. I also don't think they'll go with the "Olenna's coin in Tyrion's cell", but rather just with the Margaery-Cersei rivalry angle, and the "fading power" bit.

Their treatment of Cersei has been very uneven in general. I don't really like the term "whitewashing," but they have been painting her in a far more sympathetic light than we get in the books, starting with Joff ordering the killing of the bastards. And you're totally right that this actively deceitful and Bobby Fischer-like Marg completely changes the face of the "rivalry." It might result in a similar-looking outcome (The Walk), but the context and characterizations at play will be completely altered (hence why I voted for Cersei). IDK, in a way, that's almost worse than the completely altered stories, because I think in this case, D&D do feel like they're doing the books justice. The devil is in the details.

Shireen being his heir is probably the only thing I like about the idea of Stannis becoming King. She's such a sweetheart <3

Couldn't agree more.

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Their treatment of Cersei has been very uneven in general. I don't really like the term "whitewashing," but they have been painting her in a far more sympathetic light than we get in the books, starting with Joff ordering the killing of the bastards. And you're totally right that this actively deceitful and Bobby Fischer-like Marg completely changes the face of the "rivalry." It might result in a similar-looking outcome (The Walk), but the context and characterizations at play will be completely altered (hence why I voted for Cersei). IDK, in a way, that's almost worse than the completely altered stories, because I think in this case, D&D do feel like they're doing the books justice. The devil is in the details.

I feel like you're giving D&D too much credit. I don't think they're changing this stuff to make Cersei more pitiful or whatever, but to paint Cersei as the ~annoying, crazy, jealous mom~ who should just chill out and be okay with her CHILD having sex and being sexually controlled by a much much older woman. furthermore, most people will probably root for the margaery/tommen "romance".

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