ArabellaVidal Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 At this point, who the heck even cares? The time is past for it (or anything else) to make even the remotest sense. They obviously decided that Thoros and the lightning lord were enough to establish the theme of resurrection/justice. The major reason LSH being missing stands out is that the Stark justice storyline in the North was massacred just as surely as LF's brains in season 5. If there had been something more satisfying than Arya's one act of vengeance last season it wouldn't have mattered too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbent87 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 On 2/23/2016 at 2:58 PM, ArabellaVidal said: At this point, who the heck even cares? The time is past for it (or anything else) to make even the remotest sense. They obviously decided that Thoros and the lightning lord were enough to establish the theme of resurrection/justice. The major reason LSH being missing stands out is that the Stark justice storyline in the North was massacred just as surely as LF's brains in season 5. If there had been something more satisfying than Arya's one act of vengeance last season it wouldn't have mattered too much. it just seems like there isn't going to be any plausible vengeance for the North/Starks in the show. Brienne, essentially Jaime's champion to find the Stark girls in the books, offs Stannis who also has reason to form allegiances with the North and Stark supporters. So now in the show Brienne is going to what, find Sansa/Theon then take them in tow to get vengeance on Walder Frey while also getting Theon Iron Islands-bound to take the Seastone Chair back from Euron after believing, for whatever reason, that he had a change of heart and will use his influence to aid the North in whichever fight they're fighting? It's just a cluster F at this point, whereas if they were to include LSH, once you get past the initial shock value, would tie things together in a nice bow of vengeance (assuming her group are the ones to bring seven hells upon the Freys). That paragraph^^ is a mess. But so is the show at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble AK Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I'm pretty sure that D&D left her out because they felt it robbed the Red Wedding of its impact, and based on what GRRM told them of her future role in the series they felt her presence in the rest of the story was not sufficiently large enough to make a substantial difference in the plot by removing her. For my part, this is a change I liked. I was incredibly annoyed by the epilogue of Storm of Swords. My reaction to that scene was essentially: "GRRM, I just read an interview where you criticized Tolkien for bringing Gandalf back; now you do this?!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Just now, Humble AK said: I'm pretty sure that D&D left her out because they felt it robbed the Red Wedding of its impact, and based on what GRRM told them of her future role in the series her presence in the rest of the story was not sufficiently large enough to make a substantial difference in the plot by removing her. For my part, this is a change I liked. I was incredibly annoyed by the epilogue of Storm of Swords. My reaction to that scene was essentially: "GRRM, I just read an interview where you criticized Tolkien for bringing Gandalf back; now you do this?!!" It's funny, there seem to be only two responses to Stoneheart, yours, people that didn't like it, thought it was cheat, or mine--I LOVED it, I needed some hope at that point for Team Stark, I had just about had it with death, destruction and tragedy for anyone who was remotely someone you could root for. I love Lady Stoneheart. There are plenty of other 'dead' but 'oops not dead after all' characters I cared much less about than Cat. Just as some people love the Martell story and I hate everything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble AK Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Yeah, it certainly does provoke a strong reaction either way, so good on GRRM for that. Who knows though. If he ever is able to complete the series, only then will I know whether I agree with D&D or not on her exclusion. GRRM could surprise me and have something totally awesome in store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, Humble AK said: Yeah, it certainly does provoke a strong reaction either way, so good on GRRM for that. Who knows though. If he ever is able to complete the series, only then will I know whether I agree with D&D or not on her exclusion. GRRM could surprise me and have something totally awesome in store. My instincts tell me she will die for good early in the next book. I know the show didn't really like LSH thematically, they thought Cat's story should have ended at the RW, while they could give almost anything she does to the BWB unless it's something very specific to her children, it's "possible" she will have some major impact in the books...and this what I hope for but I honestly doubt it. But what do I know, I was shocked they cast Sam's entire family, I would have figured Randyl Tarly could have easily been cut or morphed into somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble AK Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Well, best case scenario is that it turns out well for both the book and series. Perhaps it would have been something that works really well in the novel, but would have come off poorly on screen. Man, it will really suck if GRRM never completes his series. It'd drive me crazy never knowing for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farerb Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I'm pretty sure that D&D left her out because they felt it robbed the Red Wedding of its impact, and based on what GRRM told them of her future role in the series they felt her presence in the rest of the story was not sufficiently large enough to make a substantial difference in the plot by removing her. For my part, this is a change I liked. I was incredibly annoyed by the epilogue of Storm of Swords. My reaction to that scene was essentially: "GRRM, I just read an interview where you criticized Tolkien for bringing Gandalf back; now you do this?!!" He criticized Tolkien for bringing Gandalf back without any change, he was the same Gandalf only white instead of gray. Lady Stoneheart is the opposite of Gandalf, she is supposed to portray the negative aspect of bringing someone to life. That's what GRRM wanted to do ans not bring same old Catelyn back like she didn't die at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbent87 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 On 2/26/2016 at 5:31 PM, Cas Stark said: It's funny, there seem to be only two responses to Stoneheart, yours, people that didn't like it, thought it was cheat, or mine--I LOVED it, I needed some hope at that point for Team Stark, I had just about had it with death, destruction and tragedy for anyone who was remotely someone you could root for. I love Lady Stoneheart. There are plenty of other 'dead' but 'oops not dead after all' characters I cared much less about than Cat. Just as some people love the Martell story and I hate everything about it. here, here. The SOS Epilogue and LF revealing his plans for Sansa Stark to marry Harry the Heir and restore the Stark name were probably two of the biggest fist pump moments for me throughout. Both because they were moments that lead us to believe the Starks were going to get what was theirs, after getting **** on through the majority of the story. While none of that has been confirmed in reality, it was still nice as a reader to see a glimmer of hope/fight for the House that can't seem to get a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farerb Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 here, here. The SOS Epilogue and LF revealing his plans for Sansa Stark to marry Harry the Heir and restore the Stark name were probably two of the biggest fist pump moments for me throughout. Both because they were moments that lead us to believe the Starks were going to get what was theirs, after getting **** on through the majority of the story. While none of that has been confirmed in reality, it was still nice as a reader to see a glimmer of hope/fight for the House that can't seem to get a break. I agree. Sansa and LF, Stoneheart and GNC are the storylines I'm interested the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damorian Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 So anyway, to break the lull, I was thinking .... No news. No tidbits No hints. No updates. As intriguing as the presence of Blackfish, Edmure, outlaws, Frey sons, and the Riverlands content this year is, could it (finally) be time to take the chisel to the stone and say .... R.I.P. Stoneheart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 41 minutes ago, Damorian said: So anyway, to break the lull, I was thinking .... No news. No tidbits No hints. No updates. As intriguing as the presence of Blackfish, Edmure, outlaws, Frey sons, and the Riverlands content this year is, could it (finally) be time to take the chisel to the stone and say .... R.I.P. Stoneheart? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arthur Smith Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Damorian said: So anyway, to break the lull, I was thinking .... No news. No tidbits No hints. No updates. As intriguing as the presence of Blackfish, Edmure, outlaws, Frey sons, and the Riverlands content this year is, could it (finally) be time to take the chisel to the stone and say .... R.I.P. Stoneheart? Lol. They can must as well show a scene with the Freys being hang. Fans going "LSH IS BACK!!!!!" Then it's actually Blackfish who is doing all of this HBO really love to troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damorian Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Well, no Freys hanging ... But new trailer out today shows Freys hosting Lannisters in their notorious "red suite", ahem. The question is, who is that sat to Walder's immediate right at the front table with Black Walder? http://i.imgur.com/Fqm3tyb.jpg Good chance he has a speaking role if he's been made visually that significant - and though his book self wouldn't have been granted the honour in the ruthless pecking order, could this be our first glimpse of (show version) Merrett Frey ...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Stoneheart Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I think we're getting Lady Lemonheart. LSH looks completely out. But we knew that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 while i get the fist pump feeling of the bad guys getting killed with LSH i never saw anything hopeful about it either. She is going to start by killing people we hate till she gets to people we should care about. I would not be surprised if she ended up trying to kill the blackfish or even catelyn's own children in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 There doesn't seem very much in anything that's released that suggests she's in this season, my feeling is that if she was there would be a subtle hint , they would totally use it if she was, it would cause havoc on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 On 25/02/2016 at 10:27 PM, Humble AK said: I'm pretty sure that D&D left her out because they felt it robbed the Red Wedding of its impact, and based on what GRRM told them of her future role in the series they felt her presence in the rest of the story was not sufficiently large enough to make a substantial difference in the plot by removing her. For my part, this is a change I liked. I was incredibly annoyed by the epilogue of Storm of Swords. My reaction to that scene was essentially: "GRRM, I just read an interview where you criticized Tolkien for bringing Gandalf back; now you do this?!!" The thing is despite all the hype that GRRM can kill anyone at any time, the story doesn't follow the standard fantasy tropes etc, the story is actually turning out to be pretty standard. A hidden Prince who is the hero of the story, an exiled Prince/Princess, a Mad King and then a Mad Queen (regent!), some over the top pantomime style villains, supernatural monsters, a long gone (but not really gone) race that used to dominate the planet/continent etc. It's all there. Only two major POV (those from the first book, no one else really matters regardless of how interesting their POV is) characters have died and both were adults, and one has come back as undead (possibly two) etc. What makes the story different to the standard fairytale fantasy type novels is that it has Saving Private Ryan style violence as opposed to Rambo style violence. It demonstrates that these fantastical legends and myths often have a base of truth but are far more brutal than the songs etc. But the illusion that GRRM is somehow different from other writers in terms of his actual story is just that. An illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Ser Gareth said: The thing is despite all the hype that GRRM can kill anyone at any time, the story doesn't follow the standard fantasy tropes etc, the story is actually turning out to be pretty standard. A hidden Prince who is the hero of the story, an exiled Prince/Princess, a Mad King and then a Mad Queen (regent!), some over the top pantomime style villains, supernatural monsters, a long gone (but not really gone) race that used to dominate the planet/continent etc. It's all there. Only two major POV (those from the first book, no one else really matters regardless of how interesting their POV is) characters have died and both were adults, and one has come back as undead (possibly two) etc. What makes the story different to the standard fairytale fantasy type novels is that it has Saving Private Ryan style violence as opposed to Rambo style violence. It demonstrates that these fantastical legends and myths often have a base of truth but are far more brutal than the songs etc. But the illusion that GRRM is somehow different from other writers in terms of his actual story is just that. An illusion. I think you're the one that's being under some illusion. Most people here agree that GRRM doesn't agree to the "anyone can die" adage, and criticize the show for doing just that. He deconstructs and reconstructs tropes more than he subverts them. And you know what ? That's what makes good story-telling : every great work bases itself on references and pre-existing works ; it is not only to wish, but it is necessary, or else your story is just a jumbling mess. If his major plot points seem (and that if you summarize them in a very minimal manner) standard fantasy, the way he writes the story overall and his depiction of the characters are not. The devil quality is in the details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Eh, don't engage the troll, he's already over in other, more sympathetic territory, whining about us. Because we're the enemy, you know, for pointing out that the story the D's are telling makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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