why was Ladystoneheart cut out

[Meera of Tarth]

10 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

All those titles have been explained in the episode itself. This "trolling" as you call it is simply Stoneheart fans seeing something that isn't there. For example:

Mhysa refers to Daenerys

The Children refers to the Children of the Forest

Mother's Mercy refers to Cersei's walk of atonement.

Oathbreaker can refer to any assortment of things.

Maybe it's not trolling, but it's saying something more...I can only speak for the last two, because when I watched the previous ones I hadn't read the books, but Mother's Mercy could have been, apart from its original meaning, another one: Mother Merciless. And that was a nod to LSH. And we know that titles usually refer to various things.

[Dragon in the North]

4 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Maybe it's not trolling, but it's saying something more...I can only speak for the last two, because when I watched the previous ones I hadn't read the books, but Mother's Mercy could have been, apart from its original meaning, another one: Mother Merciless. And that was a nod to LSH. And we know that titles usually refer to various things.

Mother Merciless was only mentioned in a tiny footnote in the appendix of AFFC. She's never called that in the actual story. That said, maybe saying "you're looking for something that's not there" is a little harsh, because I guess I see where you make the connection between the episode titles and Stoneheart, even if it is a bit of a leap, but if D&D really wanted to troll, they would name an episode "Heart of Stone" then have it refer to Cersei coldly massacring a bunch of people, or something like that.

[Meera of Tarth]

12 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Mother Merciless was only mentioned in a tiny footnote in the appendix of AFFC. She's never called that in the actual story. That said, maybe saying "you're looking for something that's not there" is a little harsh, because I guess I see where you make the connection between the episode titles and Stoneheart, even if it is a bit of a leap, but if D&D really wanted to troll, they would name an episode "Heart of Stone" then have it refer to Cersei coldly massacring a bunch of people, or something like that.

I think she is mentioned this way in the chapter. Can somebody corroborate  that? I'm not sure now and searchofice doesn't work in my PC.

Anyway, there's no way they would be too direct, they never are too direct for the second meaning of the episode.

[Ser Matt Dayne]

Fun aside: the thing that got people closest to fever pitch from what I remember was not an episode title but the title of a season 4 soundtrack: Oathkeeper.

People really lost their shit over that one, just check out the YouTube comments under the track.

But the funniest part was the voices of reason pointing out that it was the Hound's theme... only to get completely ignored. 

[Meera of Tarth]

52 minutes ago, Ser Matt Dayne said:

Fun aside: the thing that got people closest to fever pitch from what I remember was not an episode title but the title of a season 4 soundtrack: Oathkeeper.

People really lost their shit over that one, just check out the YouTube comments under the track.

But the funniest part was the voices of reason pointing out that it was the Hound's theme... only to get completely ignored. 

I went crazy last season with the them for Mother's Mercy too.

It had a very daark tone.

[Ruhail]

I'm surprised they bothered with Robert Strong if LSH was too much for them. 

[Damorian]

 

There'll be something in the next few episodes when they segue into the Riverlands story that will set this thing on fire one last time; you can count on that.

Probably a quick shot of some outlaws with Thoros stringing up a frey in a "next ep" preview or something. A shadowy hooded figure in the background that'll turn out to be Blackfish, a Stark loyalist or the new BWB leader nothing to do with LSH.

I suppose it reaches the apex of the whole LSH allusions = show trolling? debate for the book fandom where they actually do her storyline without her ... but trust me: deliberate or otherwise, that's exactly what will go down.

Besides, am probably too long in the tooth now in the let down stakes in hoping for anything else.

Tbh, I look at how quickly Roose was dispatched (not so much the death and plasuible motivation of Ramsey reacting to the birth of a male heir as Karstark's flimsy - hitherto off screen - complicity) and frankly I expect the same for Walder/Black Walder. A box ticked off en route, probably for Arya, but not a satisfyingly plotted demise. And when you consider the pace this show is clipping along at now - shock & awe with much less room for build up -  it does tend to make anything more involved/elaborate like the Northern revenge plot or Frey pies seem, well ... pie in the sky, frankly.

Expect a 30 second cameo from Manderley - nothing more

7-10 minutes or so in episode eight for the seige or Riverrun, heavily condensed. BWB storming the Twins and/or Walder offed (i.e: gorily) by Arya disguised as a theatre player in the finale (a la Meryn Trant.)

But Lady Stoneheart? No.

Those holding out right until the last for whoever a rattled Littlefinger is being approached by in the Godswood in the trailer will see it's either Jon or Sansa in the finale, and I guess that'll be the end of this great, four season debate.

Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, she could've made the show so much more badass than fricking Dorne and its tedious cosplay Kardashians. But I guess from here on out, it's becoming pretty clear that they want everything else out of the way to focus on the war of fire & ice for those remaining 13 episodes.

Tbh, it's kind of amazing The Iron Islands made it back in at all, but Home's breakneck's pacing on that account (Euron's backstory re: cut tongues and The Silence hastily sketched in by Balon in ten seconds flat rather than letting us see it for ourselves whilst simultaneously breaking the old "show not tell" adage of storytelling) made it pretty clear what to expect in terms of screentime. 

But hey, hope springs eternal, no-one has all the answers on season six except the show-runners themselves, and as always ... prove me wrong, guys. Prove me wrong.

 

[Farerb]

10 hours ago, Ser Matt Dayne said:

Fun aside: the thing that got people closest to fever pitch from what I remember was not an episode title but the title of a season 4 soundtrack: Oathkeeper.

People really lost their shit over that one, just check out the YouTube comments under the track.

But the funniest part was the voices of reason pointing out that it was the Hound's theme... only to get completely ignored. 

It wasn't the Hound's theme, it was the track that was played during the Hound and Brienne's fight.

[Farerb]

9 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I went crazy last season with the them for Mother's Mercy too.

It had a very daark tone.

It had the Lannisters theme, why would they put a Lannisters theme in her scene. If she appears, it will be most likely be a darker version of the starks theme like "Winter is Coming" or "Kill Them All" or "The North Remembers".

[Ser Quork]

1 hour ago, Damorian said:

 

There'll be something in the next few episodes when they segue into the Riverlands story that will set this thing on fire one last time; you can count on that.

Probably a quick shot of some outlaws with Thoros stringing up a frey in a "next ep" preview or something. A shadowy hooded figure in the background that'll turn out to be Blackfish, a Stark loyalist or the new BWB leader nothing to do with LSH.

I suppose it reaches the apex of the whole LSH allusions = show trolling? debate for the book fandom where they actually do her storyline without her ... but trust me: deliberate or otherwise, that's exactly what will go down.

Besides, am probably too long in the tooth now in the let down stakes in hoping for anything else.

Tbh, I look at how quickly Roose was dispatched (not so much the death and plasuible motivation of Ramsey reacting to the birth of a male heir as Karstark's flimsy - hitherto off screen - complicity) and frankly I expect the same for Walder/Black Walder. A box ticked off en route, probably for Arya, but not a satisfyingly plotted demise. And when you consider the pace this show is clipping along at now - shock & awe with much less room for build up -  it does tend to make anything more involved/elaborate like the Northern revenge plot or Frey pies seem, well ... pie in the sky, frankly.

Expect a 30 second cameo from Manderley - nothing more

7-10 minutes or so in episode eight for the seige or Riverrun, heavily condensed. BWB storming the Twins and/or Walder offed (i.e: gorily) by Arya disguised as a theatre player in the finale (a la Meryn Trant.)

But Lady Stoneheart? No.

Those holding out right until the last for whoever a rattled Littlefinger is being approached by in the Godswood in the trailer will see it's either Jon or Sansa in the finale, and I guess that'll be the end of this great, four season debate.

Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, she could've made the show so much more badass than fricking Dorne and its tedious cosplay Kardashians. But I guess from here on out, it's becoming pretty clear that they want everything else out of the way to focus on the war of fire & ice for those remaining 13 episodes.

Tbh, it's kind of amazing The Iron Islands made it back in at all, but Home's breakneck's pacing on that account (Euron's backstory re: cut tongues and The Silence hastily sketched in by Balon in ten seconds flat rather than letting us see it for ourselves whilst simultaneously breaking the old "show not tell" adage of storytelling) made it pretty clear what to expect in terms of screentime. 

But hey, hope springs eternal, no-one has all the answers on season six except the show-runners themselves, and as always ... prove me wrong, guys. Prove me wrong.

 

[Le Cygne]

9 hours ago, Ruhail said:

I'm surprised they bothered with Robert Strong if LSH was too much for them. 

Because he belongs to Carol.

[Ser Gareth]

9 hours ago, Ruhail said:

I'm surprised they bothered with Robert Strong if LSH was too much for them. 

I wish they hadn't bothered with him.  And I wish GRRM hadn't too.  Stupid plot line and character.  One of the things that made those first three books great was the gritty realism (other than a lot of the Dany crap that most people didn't like).  Robert Strong has shit all over that.

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, farerb said:

It had the Lannisters theme, why would they put a Lannisters theme in her scene. If she appears, it will be most likely be a darker version of the starks theme like "Winter is Coming" or "Kill Them All" or "The North Remembers".

I know it was the land. Theme

but their theme is related to the red wedding. Just like Lsh

[UnmaskedLurker]

3 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I wish they hadn't bothered with him.  And I wish GRRM hadn't too.  Stupid plot line and character.  One of the things that made those first three books great was the gritty realism (other than a lot of the Dany crap that most people didn't like).  Robert Strong has shit all over that.

I suspect they include RS because he is important to a part of the plot they felt they needed (or wanted) to keep from whatever outline GRRM gave them originally (perhaps Clegane Bowl?). LSH, on the other hand, I think merely complicated other aspect of the story they felt they needed to change -- such as Brienne and Sansa's story arcs and perhaps even the manner in which Jon is resurrected (which I suspect will be different in certain important respects in the books -- particularly Jon having warged into Ghost).

Part of the problem with making judgments about what was included or cut out is that the viewers do not yet know where each story line is going. The inclusion of RS now may seem silly -- but by the end it might become clear why it was necessary. Similarly, the exclusion of LSH might seem to be a loss now -- but by the end it might become clear why it was done.

[Meera of Tarth]

I suspected RS is included because that cleganbowl.

I am not a fan of that supposed fight; in fact' if that happens in either the books or the show or both ; I will not enjoy it at all.

but if the CB affects the main story it could have been avoided too. it is just a fight.

I think the outcome of Dorne from the books or Aegon was more important to the story and still they avoided them.

Lsh is as important or more than Cb if Cb is to happen.

 

[UnmaskedLurker]

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I suspected RS is included because that cleganbowl.

I am not a fan of that supposed fight; in fact' if that happens in either the books or the show or both ; I will not enjoy it at all.

but if the CB affects the main story it could have been avoided too. it is just a fight.

I think the outcome of Dorne from the books or Aegon was more important to the story and still they avoided them.

Lsh is as important or more than Cb if Cb is to happen.

 

It is not really that RS is more important than LSH to the story. It would be that RS is needed for some plot element that is being kept in the story, while LSH was not needed due to changes to plot lines that the producers felt were necessary. So RS may have become a necessary secondary or tertiary character (we will have to wait to see how he is used in the plot going forward) -- while LSH became an expendable semi-main character that only complicated the story arcs.

[Meera of Tarth]

5 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

It is not really that RS is more important than LSH to the story. It would be that RS is needed for some plot element that is being kept in the story, while LSH was not needed due to changes to plot lines that the producers felt were necessary. So RS may have become a necessary secondary or tertiary character (we will have to wait to see how he is used in the plot going forward) -- while LSH became an expendable semi-main character that only complicated the story arcs.

Agree on that we don't know yet if RS will be important for the story.

And LSH may complicate the story arcs of the other characters if they are rushing to the ending.

However, I suspect RS won't serve an important purpose, and it would be less than LSH would have served (or will serve if she appears).

But if Blackfish commands the BWB then LSH would have been a better choice indeed.

[lancerman]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 4:30 PM, Ruhail said:

I'm surprised they bothered with Robert Strong if LSH was too much for them. 

Robert Strong is pretty much married to Cersie's plot. If you are doing Cersie's plot, you are literally only required to make the actor who plays the Mountain put in some makeup and where different armor.

Lady Stoneheart has an independent story that requires a lead actor returning, them using the entire Riverland set piece, probably another crew, all the actors who played the Brotherhood Without Banners. And it reverses the most known event in the show.

The characters that are cut often have a lot more to do with practicality than just something arbitrary like "well we don't want to bring back to many dead characters".

 

[Meera of Tarth]

40 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Robert Strong is pretty much married to Cersie's plot. If you are doing Cersie's plot, you are literally only required to make the actor who plays the Mountain put in some makeup and where different armor.

Lady Stoneheart has an independent story that requires a lead actor returning, them using the entire Riverland set piece, probably another crew, all the actors who played the Brotherhood Without Banners. And it reverses the most known event in the show.

The characters that are cut often have a lot more to do with practicality than just something arbitrary like "well we don't want to bring back to many dead characters".

 

But if you are adapting a book's story you can't cut major characters, and LSH is definitely one.

Reversinf the most known event in the show? Probably, as it happens in the books. That's debatable. However, if the author created LSH was for a good reason.

RS is married to Cersei's plot, just like LSH is married to Brienne, The Brotherhood (and they will appear again) and Jaime. That's not a good excuse. LSH's is not an independent story. But of course in a show where you can barely recognise BookBrienne or BookJaime since season 4 it MAY be an independet story. After all, GOT can not be called an adaptation when speaking of some (or a lot) characters and storylines.

[The Fattest Leech]

On 5/3/2016 at 5:21 PM, Meera of Tarth said:

I think she is mentioned this way in the chapter. Can somebody corroborate  that? I'm not sure now and searchofice doesn't work in my PC.

Anyway, there's no way they would be too direct, they never are too direct for the second meaning of the episode.

A Feast for Crows - Brienne VIII

"M'lady." The wine was making her head spin. It was hard to think. "Stoneheart. Is that who you mean?" Lord Randyll had spoken of her, back at Maidenpool. "Lady Stoneheart."

"Some call her that. Some call her other things. The Silent Sister. Mother Merciless. The Hangwoman."

The Hangwoman. When Brienne closed her eyes, she saw the corpses swaying underneath the bare brown limbs, their faces black and swollen. Suddenly she was desperately afraid. "Podrick. My squire. Where is Podrick? And the others . . . Ser Hyle, Septon Meribald. Dog. What did you do with Dog?"