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Sophia Wilson17@yahoo.ca

why was Ladystoneheart cut out

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I have to say that it wouldn't bother me if LS never showed up. I was never a fan of Cat or UnCat.

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If she's cut, it's likely because she amounts to very little in the end game.

That's the assumption, but I'm at a loss as to how. Means, one would assume, she doesn't kill Pod, Brienne OR Jaime (perhaps they kill her??), and doesn't let them go to complete some other mission (which, in exchange for Jaime's freedom, would need to be something major i.e. Kill Cersei)

Very tough to come up with a scenario in which LSH current story line doesn't involve SOME major movements

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For all we know, GRRM could have Lady Stoneheart kill Cersei in the end. There is zero grounds for simply assuming she has no bearing on the final act of the story.


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For all we know, GRRM could have Lady Stoneheart kill Cersei in the end. There is zero grounds for simply assuming she has no bearing on the final act of the story.

Except for the fact that there is a very good possibility that they know where her storyline is going. GRRM has given them the endgame, and most likely given them this one as well, seeing as it is one of the 2 bigger character cuts (2nd being (f)Aegon). From his quote, don't have it on hand, he said he wouldn't introduce a character without giving them some effect on the endgame, and noted LSH specifically, that she has an effect worthy of him introducing her in the first place.

Knowing that they need to cut characters though, even GRRM admits as much, was her effect small enough to cut and/or combine with another character? If her only actions through ADwD are it IMO I'd say probably, however only people who know her future actions (GRRM & probably D&D) would be able to say knowing what's in store.

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Except for the fact that there is a very good possibility that they know where her storyline is going.

So? They knew where the Hounds storyline was going but they had him odd-couple with Arya for an entire season before being killed by Brienne in a WWE matchup. Just because they know the end doesn't mean they can't change (read: screw up) the middle.

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Lady Stoneheart being cut was a change I liked. To be honest, beyond the initial shock value(which fades real quick) I feel she adds nothing to and really takes a lot away from Catelyn's character. At least in the show she gets to rest in peace rather than go on living as literally the worst version of herself.


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Lady Stoneheart being cut was a change I liked. To be honest, beyond the initial shock value(which fades real quick) I feel she adds nothing to and really takes a lot away from Catelyn's character. At least in the show she gets to rest in peace rather than go on living as literally the worst version of herself.

Wouldn't it be nice if all the characters we like got to stay the best version of themselves? Then nothing would be taken away from any character.

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Final predictions for % of her appearing in the Finale? I'll say 10%. With Walder Frey returning next season I could see it being more likely to introduce her then. I honestly think they're going to need more stuff than people realize for Season 6. Going to be just about exhausted of all book material at that point.


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Final predictions for % of her appearing in the Finale? I'll say 10%. With Walder Frey returning next season I could see it being more likely to introduce her then. I honestly think they're going to need more stuff than people realize for Season 6. Going to be just about exhausted of all book material at that point.

Agreed. They would of had tons of book material to use for Season 6 if they didn't add a bunch of made up stuff.

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Final predictions for % of her appearing in the Finale? I'll say 10%. With Walder Frey returning next season I could see it being more likely to introduce her then. I honestly think they're going to need more stuff than people realize for Season 6. Going to be just about exhausted of all book material at that point.

I'd say it's about 55%, though if she doesn't appear in the finale I'd put her chances of appearing in the show after this at .0001%. There are a few things that make me think it'll happen:

1. If I was in charge of the show, this is exactly where I'd introduce her. It would have been really lame if she had appeared in last season's finale - there would have been nothing for her to do for the entirety of Season 5 until she appeared in the finale again, and everyone would have been complaining about her absence after being introduced. It's a perfect example of something that works well in the books, but wouldn't translate to the medium of TV very well.

2. As I said before, the comments by the show people are similar to other comments made by TV people when they try to deny fan theories that end up being true. The comments all fall conveniently short of a direct "She will definitely never appear in the show, ever." Sometimes what is not said is as telling as what is said.

3. After Shireen and Sansa, and what we know is coming to Jon and Myrcella, I think the show is going to need one storyline that will reward the audience by having a "fuck yeah" scene killing a bad guy (though Arya, Sansa, or Brienne can fill this role too).

4. Like you said, it would lead nicely into the Freys returning next season.

None of this, of course, means she definitely will appear, which is why I'm just putting the chance at slightly above 50/50.

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Within the next season they will have to end the situation with Boltons vs Stannis in the north. That means that whoever wins will need to begin interacting with the rest of the 7K's again and the only way to do that is via the Twins and the Freys. That means that the Freys need to be back in next season in some form or other. And if the Freys are in it would be the perfect opportunity to bring the BWB back to the mix so they can start getting revenge for the Red Wedding and the War of the Five Kings.



Also, once Jamie and Bronn are back from Dorne they are going to need something to do next season. If they completely cut LS and any Riverlands stuff out then Jamie has literally no material for S6 and nothing worthy from TWOW seems apparent yet.



I'd say the end of S5 is the last chance to introduce her as after that you are looking at it being 2+ years since Cat was onscreen and people won't even have a clue how she came back to life. After that point non-readers will simply forget the Starks ever really mattered and the feeling of excitement at possible revenge arcs will have passed.


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this is one of the examples of how I really believe D&D ruined the story with their show decisions.

 

Lady Stone Heart may just end up as a non-important-end-character but she is sure important to the stuff in the story, maybe not The Ending but certainly The Middle!  Lots of stuff flows through her and her part in the story.

 

 

Furthermore, it seemed like they either didn't want to or it was a last minute decision because Actress Cersei, what's her name Lena Headey or something, did an Instagram or Twitter or something of a picture of stones forming a heart and the word LADY early last year I believe, making us think it might be in S4 or S5 but .. nothing.

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Already posted that link, Azor. But it's awesome enough news that it does bear some repeating! :drool:

 

We're now at the stage where not only is the supporting casting of outlaws, Walder and a potential Merrett variant pointing strongly in her direction but Irish Thrones (a far less dodgy news outlet than the rogue fake actor Twitter account shenanigans of previous years) are touting her involvement.

 

Leading. A fucking. Army.

 

Sure, they could still just mean the BWB, but hey .... unlike all the red herring/guessing games of previous years we may have actually reached a point fairly early on this time where it's odds on safe to say she will (finally) be in a season after all.

 

A stong possibility too that if her role is this substantial in S6, then in both TWOW and tv show, as many have suspected,  she will ultimately be the one to pass the flame of life to Jon. Provided it's late S6 or early S7 and she gets a chance to shine as her corrupted self and do her thing with Freys/Walder/Brienne & Jaime beforehand, I personally can't think of any better redemptive end game for the LSH character. It's also intriguingly a direction the show may have already set up with that speech Catelyn gave Talisa re: her guilt in wishing him dead.

 

But there's a LOT of presumption involved here - assuming the show isn't daft enough to bait-and-switch another character like Brienne or Sansa into the role, for one. If, as many of us hope, it's Cat as per the book, then who will be the one to give the flashback of Nymeria dragging her out? Bran or Arya as per book? She has to be the favourite due to that plotline re-establishing the (in show-verse: non-existent) connection with her direwolf, but I can see them using Bran just as easily, if they place a Weirwood tree en route along the trident when she went for her little skinny dip. Would be disappointing storytelling leaving them wide open to accusations of Deus-Ex-Machina if they just use Thoros giving us an info-dump without visualising any of it. By the time that George did that, he had already laid the groundwork.

 

Personally, and by way of an insurance policy, I always thought they should have included a brief shot of her naked body being thrown into the river in that brief post-RW montage (burning tents, Robbwind etc) we got at the beginning of S3E10 Mhysa. This seems at one point to have actually been their intention since it's well known that they made a prosthetic head for some kind of tricky aftermath scene with Catelyn that was abandoned in the mix. Pics of it surfaced online as a sfx reject about a year or so ago. >>>

 

https://twitter.com/catelynshead

Edited by Damorian

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Already posted that link, Azor. But it's awesome enough news that it does bear some repeating! :drool: We're now at the stage where not only is the supporting casting of outlaws, Walder and a potential Merrett variant pointing strongly in her direction but Irish Thrones (a far less dodgy news outlet than the rogue fake actor Twitter account shenanigans of previous years) are touting her involvement.

 

Leading. A fucking. Army.

 

Sure, they could still just mean the BWB, but hey .... unlike all the red herring/guessing games of previous years we may have actually reached a point fairly early on this time where it's odds on safe to say she will (finally) be in a season after all.

 

A stong possibility too that if her role is this substantial in S6, then in both TWOW and tv show, as many have suspected,  she will ultimately be the one to pass the flame of life to Jon. Provided it's late S6 or early S7 and she gets a chance to shine as her corrupted self and do her thing with Freys/Walder/Brienne & Jaime beforehand, I personally can't think of any better redemptive end game for the LSH character. It's also intriguingly a direction the show may have already set up with that speech Catelyn gave Talisa re: her guilt in wishing him dead.

 

But there's a LOT of presumption involved here - assuming the show isn't daft enough to bait-and-switch another character like Brienne or Sansa into the role, for one. If, as many of us hope, it's Cat as per the book, then who will be the one to give the flashback of Nymeria dragging her out? Bran or Arya as per book? She has to be the favourite due to that plotline re-establishing the (in show-verse: non-existent) connection with her direwolf, but I can see them using Bran just as easily, if they place a Weirwood tree en route along the trident when she went for her little skinny dip. Would be disappointing storytelling leaving them wide open to accusations of Deus-Ex-Machina if they just use Thoros giving us an info-dump without visualising any of it. By the time that George did that, he had already laid the groundwork.

 

Personally, and by way of an insurance policy, I always thought they should have included a brief shot of her naked body being thrown into the river in that brief post-RW montage (burning tents, Robbwind etc) we got at the beginning of S3E10 Mhysa. This seems at one point to have actually been their intention since it's well known that they made a prosthetic head for some kind of tricky aftermath scene with Catelyn that was abandoned in the mix. Pics of it surfaced online as a sfx reject about a year or so ago. >>>

 

https://twitter.com/catelynshead

That's highly doubtful.  Kit has spent weeks, maybe even over a month, in Belfast which would suggest that he is going to have more screentime than just a burning scene or a getting revived scene.  He will probably be revived very early in s6.  I still have my doubts on LSH in the show.  If they were going to have her in S6, why not introduce her in the season finale? It seems like the Riverlands will be a major focal point in S6 so will have not have her reintroduce the area for S6? Makes no sense.

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If they have the rehabilitated Hound and two rezzed Starks in a single season then the latter, in all likelihood, will be carefully connected via the same overarching plotline since that firstly bypasses the Deus Ex Machina of "bringing back all the dead (or dying) characters willy-nilly!" effect. Mel will also be needing to seek out Thoros in the Riverlands. She was shocked by his power in season 3 and does not possess it herself.

 

Presuming the Irish Thrones scoop is correct, then LSH therefore has to come first, since she is not only: a) part of establishing the reminder that non-wight resurrection is possble in this universe but also: b.) a fairly scary reminder that Jon may not quite come back as 'himself' at all.

 

So for me, if not for you and I respect that - Jon's ressurection makes more sense towards the end of this coming season or the start of S7 rather than an instant thing right off the bat. There is also plenty he can film besides a funeral scene in the meantime. If Mel glamours his body with someone elses on the funeral pyre for example (real or fake, the 'leaked' synopses hinted at this) and sails him to the Riverlands, packed in ice? If there are flashbacks? Etc, etc ...

 

But yeah ... all guesswork, all conjecture. You pays your money, you takes your choice. :cool4:

Edited by Damorian

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R+L=J no surprise, had a feeling Stoneheart would be coming in though with the shift to the Riverlands. I am now convinced D&D are moping up the rest of the published material from earlier books and using the first half of Winds that GRRM has already written as material for this season.

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There is almost nothing worse in fiction than bringing back dead characters. Unfortunately GRRM seems to have a bit of a boner for doing it in his books.

My initial reaction to LSH was 'oh so I went through all that pain over the red wedding for nothing! Thanks george' and I've yet to be convinced that her existence merits that betrayal of trust. Nothing she has done so far in the book has made me think she is relevant , although that all might change in the next book.

However , if LSH isn't in next season, and next season is now her final chance , and most likely chance of being in it, then I think it's quite clear that she's not going to be all that relevant.

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this is one of the examples of how I really believe D&D ruined the story with their show decisions.

 

Lady Stone Heart may just end up as a non-important-end-character but she is sure important to the stuff in the story, maybe not The Ending but certainly The Middle!  Lots of stuff flows through her and her part in the story.

 

 

Furthermore, it seemed like they either didn't want to or it was a last minute decision because Actress Cersei, what's her name Lena Headey or something, did an Instagram or Twitter or something of a picture of stones forming a heart and the word LADY early last year I believe, making us think it might be in S4 or S5 but .. nothing.

Director Alex Graves confirmed that LS was never in plans for season 4.

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