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Small Questions v.10099


Jon Weirgaryen

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There may be quite a number of reasons, and I am probably going to miss a few.

  1. Someone had to do the dirty job - err, lead the expedition.

Loras Tyrell seemed to be out for vengeance and also overly foolish - Eddard wanted justice delivered, not vengeance. So: not Loras.

Beric is a Stormlander, a foreigner to the riverlands and hopefully impartial in all other riverlands affairs the party might get involved with.

He is affiliated through his squire Edric with the Dayne family, to which Eddard already has had a few relations and ties.

Plot reasons ;-)

...

Thank you. 3 and 4 are very interesting. I was wondering: what about Balon Swann, or some Royce (there were a couple of them, if I recall correctly)? Why not them?

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I feel there are some regulars on the thread that have not found the time to give you quality answers to your question and the comments I deleted from above quote. Allow me to answer them in all simplicity:

1) It does not work on to a regular scheme. The richest and most elegant power schemers will get their pawn or person of choice to inherit. Mostly by buying him in. That is what used to happen in real history and also in ASoIaF.

...

2) I think the family name will usually change to that of the hubby.

So I actually found a blurb about inheritance on the wiki page and you're pretty much right, it's basically a crapshoot.

However, it also notes that inheritors take on the name of the house they're inheriting- so it does seem that if daughter inherits and rules within he her own right then her child can take on her name and continue her line. The question that still arises is what happens when a child is a heir to both houses. I still think having it be common practice for the mother's holdings to just be absorbed into the father's house is at odds with the longevity of so many houses and that most likely an inheriting daughter would marry a lesser member of a house that doesn't stand to inherit on his own. Of course, this requires the daughter to know she'll inherit before she marries which isn't necessarily or even generally the case. I suppose ideally you could have one child inherit the father's house and the next inherit the mother's- but then again when do things work ideally.

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The question that still arises is what happens when a child is a heir to both houses. I still think having it be common practice for the mother's holdings to just be absorbed into the father's house is at odds with the longevity of so many houses [...] I suppose ideally you could have one child inherit the father's house and the next inherit the mother's- but then again when do things work ideally.

I did indeed not know - I learned through ASoIaF and then re-reading a few historical examples: The lords holdings severyl dominions would have to ask their souzerain to allow them to integrate one into the other. Unification projects tended to last over a century or two, so they were no fast money cows, but rather geostrategic and rather hopeful optimizations. Look at maps from German history, where counties have been unified into greater units for many centuries, and all of a sudden been given real speedup by France and Prussia.

In the usual cases though, the souzerain would deny the request -- and encourage a widowed lord of house A also holding the lands of former house B to remarry some closer or distant relative of the former house B. While Lord A's firstborn would still inherit the A lands; in best case, one of the new marriages' issue would inherit house B and everybody would ordered to be happy with that :) . Or a second son or daughter would marry into the remaining house B family, be given B lands and passing it on their AB issue.

All real world examples, in ASoIaF we have seen some of these things to go the same way. Rebel lords losing their lands to loyal lords don't count, but Ramsay winning Hornwood lands through his marriage is the exception, abusing the current power-vacuum in the North. What will happen to Bronn and house Stokeworth, we'll see. I am really curious.

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Can I blame it on my french lessons having been quite some years ago, while currently attempting to learn spanish a bit? :blushing:

You absolutely can :D ! Languages always tend to get all mixed-up in our heads... Anyway, you should replace "tu nombre" with "ton nom", I suppose - then it will sound French :) .

A question: is there something here on the forum about that inconsistency with the dates, when Ned Stark says that he last saw Robert nine years ago, but that he saw Cersei six years ago? Was any explanation given? I really need to know...

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Thanks!

I've added tiger to template:creatures using [[Tiger (animal)|Tiger]] could sb check if it works correctly and sends to Tiger ( animal) , not to Triarchs of Volantis?

The old redirect page was still there. We don't have permission to delete pages so I just had it redirect to your new disambiguation page. It should work as intended now.

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You absolutely can :D ! Languages always tend to get all mixed-up in our heads... Anyway, you should replace "tu nombre" with "ton nom", I suppose - then it will sound French :) .

A question: is there something here on the forum about that inconsistency with the dates, when Ned Stark says that he last saw Robert nine years ago, but that he saw Cersei six years ago? Was any explanation given? I really need to know...

Ah, good :)

It might not be an inconsistency.. No one is tied to the floor, and Robert is perfectly capable of being at one place, with Cersei being in another.

I think that Ned might have seen Cersei when Cat last saw Lysa... In 293 AC.. Tommen would have been 2, I know, and perhaps a bit old for breastfeeding.. But there are women who breastfeed their child until the age of two, and if Cersei did the breastfeeding herself, it might have been part of her strong nurturing feelings she had for her children..

I have no idea how long women of nobility used to breastfeed their children, though, the way I understand it, most women of nobility used a wet-nurse. However, we see Lysa Tully breastfeeding Robert herself, until an extreme age, so it might be that there are other women of nobility in Westeros who choose to breastfeed their children themselves.

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The old redirect page was still there. We don't have permission to delete pages so I just had it redirect to your new disambiguation page. It should work as intended now.

Everything works correctly now. Thanks @RumHam and @ Rhaenys_Targaryen for advices and help :)

So, my first Wiki pages awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?title=Tiger_(disambiguation)&redirect=no and http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tiger_(animal) are done.

If WoW will give more information or someone will find something more in the books, let me know, I'll update it.

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Why weren't Stannis and Renly called "Prince" instead of "Lord"? When Robb declares himself King - Bran is called Prince, seems odd that Stannis and Renly weren't..

A matter of personal decision, perhaps? Stannis and Renly were the lords to a seat, Bran and Rickon weren't, that's also a difference. And perhaps because the Starks of old were a monarchy, whereas Robert started a complete new dynasty, a new royal line, with this only Robert and his descendants with a royal title.

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I thought that Jon Aryn had a son who was Brandon Starks squire, and also a son who died at the Battle of Gulltown. Am I completely off base here? Were they other relatives and not his sons?

His only sone was Robert. His heir at the time of Robert's Rebellion was a nephew, I believe, but he was killed, I think at the Battle of the Bells. The last couple of paragraphs at the end of Sansaqlast chapter in Storm explains Arryn's line of succession.
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I thought that Jon Aryn had a son who was Brandon Starks squire, and also a son who died at the Battle of Gulltown. Am I completely off base here? Were they other relatives and not his sons?

Jon Arryn's first heir was Elbert Arryn (died at KL), his second Denys Arryn (died at Battle of the Bells)..

Elbert was the son of Jon Arryn's younger brother Ronnel, who himself had died before Robert's Rebellion (around the time of Elbert's birth).

Denys was a very distant cousin, who had gotten married to the eldest surviving daughter of Jon Arryn's younger sister. This sister had given birth to one son previously, but the boy had died, leaving, after Elbert, only female heirs.

Because Denys had married the eldest daughter of Jon's sister Alys, he was considered heir after Elbert. Denys died at the Battle of the Bells, and both his wife and son died shortly after.

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The known Arryns during the timespan of the events described in A Song of Ice and Fire are:

Lord {Jon Arryn}, Lord of the Eyrie, Defender of the Vale, Warden of the East, and Hand of the King. He died unexpectedly.

Lady {Jeyne Royce}, Jon's first wife. She died in childbed, her daughter stillborn.

Lady {Rowena Arryn}, Jon's second wife and his cousin, died of a winter chill, childless.

Lady {Lysa Tully}, his third wife. Died from a fall.

Lord Robert Arryn, called Sweetrobin, Lord of the Eyrie, Defender of the Vale, and Warden of the East. A sickly boy.

Ser {Ronnel Arryn}, Jon's brother. Keeper of the Gates of the Moon. He died of a bad belly.

Ser {Elbert Arryn}, Ronnel's son. He was killed by Aerys II. Heir to the Vale at the time of his death.

{Alys Arryn}, Jon's sister. Married Ser {Elys Waynwood} and bore him nine children.

With unspecified familiar relationship to the main branch there are also:

Ser {Denys Arryn}, known as the Darling of the Vale, married a distant cousin who descended from the main Arryn branch. As such was considered heir to the Vale after Elbert Arryn

Jon Arryn had a brother - Ser Ronnel Arryn. Ronnel's son Ser Elbert was heir to the Vale at that time...

Elbert was killed on orders of Aerys with Brandon Stark...

Later distant relative ser Denys Arryn became heir. He was killed in Battle of the Stony Sept...

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souzerain

That's basically an 'overlord' a lesser lord is sworn to, correct? It's a good point and one I've been overlooking. I've tended to look at how the great houses work and then just scale things back in size for the lesser ones but that ignores the fact that most houses in Westeros - or nobility in real life - are heavily 'influenced' by those above them. The great houses can probably maintain the status quo of the major houses, the major houses for the minor houses and so forth as long as it suits them. Which also explains how houses ancient enough to have blood relations everywhere can go extinct when any distant relation can potentially take on the house name if need be- they have to piss someone above them off around the same time their direct line dies out or gets killed off (and as I mentioned in an earlier post, all or nearly all the major houses known to have gone extinct - Greystark, Greyiron, Dryland, Hoare, Gardener, most of the houses to hold Harrenhal, Reyne, Tarbeck, Darklyn, Hollard, Stark* and Tully* - would fit that bill).

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It might not be an inconsistency.. No one is tied to the floor, and Robert is perfectly capable of being at one place, with Cersei being in another.

I think that Ned might have seen Cersei when Cat last saw Lysa... In 293 AC.. Tommen would have been 2, I know, and perhaps a bit old for breastfeeding.. But there are women who breastfeed their child until the age of two, and if Cersei did the breastfeeding herself, it might have been part of her strong nurturing feelings she had for her children..

I have no idea how long women of nobility used to breastfeed their children, though, the way I understand it, most women of nobility used a wet-nurse. However, we see Lysa Tully breastfeeding Robert herself, until an extreme age, so it might be that there are other women of nobility in Westeros who choose to breastfeed their children themselves.

Rhaenys_Targaryen, thanks. You believe then, that in 293 AC Ned and Catelyn visited KL and saw both Lysa and Cersei, but Robert was not there for some reason? I suppose this is plausible - at least some explanation :) . The only one I was able to come up with was that Ned confused Tommen with Myrcella :blush: :laugh: !

Concerning breastfeeding: I was actually under impression that it's customary for noblewomen in Westeros to breastfeed their children. It seems a bit unrealistic, but that's what we see in the books: they all do their own breastfeeding, including queens and princesses :unsure: .

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So, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this one but there didn't seem to be a Small Questions for the show. Anyway, my "noob to the forum question" is:

Does the slang term 'Unsullied' in the show forums refer to those who don't read the books just watch the show?

When not speaking of the soldiers named Unsullied, then yes, the term Unsullied refers to those fans who watch the show, but don't read the books.

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Rhaenys_Targaryen, thanks. You believe then, that in 293 AC Ned and Catelyn visited KL and saw both Lysa and Cersei, but Robert was not there for some reason? I suppose this is plausible - at least some explanation :) . The only one I was able to come up with was that Ned confused Tommen with Myrcella :blush: [emoji23] !

Concerning breastfeeding: I was actually under impression that it's customary for noblewomen in Westeros to breastfeed their children. It seems a bit unrealistic, but that's what we see in the books: they all do their own breastfeeding, including queens and princesses :unsure: .

In KL, or perhaps at another location entirely.. And Robert seems like a man who loves to visit his subjects, to me, which could explain why he wasn't there..

Of course, that would require Neds presence at Cersei's location to have been unplanned, as Robert would have wanted to be there, had he known Ned was coming.

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