Jump to content

The Complete Winds of Winter Resource v. 2


BryndenBFish

Recommended Posts

But the point was, that they are both confirmed POV's.. We've had chapters from both of them already. Even if the storytelling of Meereen is eventually limited to one POV (which does not need to be the case, as Sansa and Tyrion were both present in King's Landing to tell us about the happenings there for entire Clash) to one of the two, they are both present in the POV count of Winds.

So what do you think, certain plot lines will be dropped then? I mean if you're counting the POV's that are likely doomed, that means certain story lines will have to be dropped. George said in his little passage at the start of ADWD that he's going to try to fit everyone into the next book, so that's mostly why I don't think the 13 POV rule is going to stick. That's just my take on things though, lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 POV characters seems pretty straightforward. The prologue won't be counted (as normal) and we have nine already: Aeron, Arianne, Arya, Barristan, Bran, Sansa, Theon, Tyrion, Victarion.

Five more is pretty obvious: Daenerys, Cersei, either Jaime or Brienne (they're in the same place, so both is unnecessary), Davos and Samwell Tarly.

Asha won't be necessary as she'll be with Theon; Jon Connington won't be necessary as that story is being taken over by Arianne; Jon and Mel won't be necessary as we'll likely completely sit out on the Wall to start with (I expect them to return mid-book or towards the end though).

That only leaves us one character overboard.That can perhaps be down to one POV being killed off pretty quickly (so if Barristan dies after just three chapters, maybe all written for ADWD, then GRRM might not have been counting him) or maybe a character having only one chapter in the early book and coming back later (or not at all). It's entirely possible, if unlikely, that Sam only gets one chapter as a sort of "reading montage", or Bran gets a single infodump chapter and that's about it.

I don't count Bran as "confirmed"; but I agree that we will see him. So that brings us to 9 & leaves room for 4 more.

I also agree we will see Cersei and Dany, & strong arguments support this. That brings us to 11, & leaves 2 more.

I don't agree that Davos, Samwell or Brienne/Jaime are "obvious" unless you mean "obvious possibilities". In fact, I am convinced we won't see Samwell, Brienne or Jaime as POVs (though that does not mean they will not appear as characters). I don't think Jon Snow can be ruled out at all, and am leaning toward Jon and Davos for the final two options, though neither can be regarded as certain. I'm not sure Asha can be ruled out, merely because she is currently in the same place as another POV character. That assumes we know her purpose in the story or what will happen next.

Since strong arguments can be made for only 11 POVs, there is no need to stretch the 13 POV limit (except, as per tradition, to include "one offs" from a prologue and/or epilogue).

GRRM explicitly said the POV count would be lower than 13 by the end; which seems to anticipate certain deaths. I think this rules out the idea that the POV count of 13 does not include those who might get killed during the volume.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In his latest notablog post found here.

My own attempt to be optimistic about this, was to wonder if he was planning to break down and give us a progress update for the 4 year anniversary of the release of ADWD (tomorrow), but wants to lower our expectations a bit first (since some are working so hard to keep them high), so we don't howl too loudly in disappointment.

But if July passes without an update ... I can't see these as hopeful noises.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In his latest notablog post found here.

Well, way behind on "everything" is as vague as it gets, he may mean Winds or maybe not.

If in fact he is 'way behind' on Winds then there is no way in the seven hells he will get it out before season 6, which is what my intuition has been telling me since I saw how much traveling he's doing w/out providing any hopeful info. on the book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My own attempt to be optimistic about this, was to wonder if he was planning to break down and give us a progress update for the 4 year anniversary of the release of ADWD (tomorrow), but wants to lower our expectations a bit first (since some are working so hard to keep them high), so we don't howl too loudly in disappointment.

But if July passes without an update ... I can't see these as hopeful noises.

Wonder if he will do something special now that you mention it is the 4 year anniversary since Dance came out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what do you think, certain plot lines will be dropped then? I mean if you're counting the POV's that are likely doomed, that means certain story lines will have to be dropped. George said in his little passage at the start of ADWD that he's going to try to fit everyone into the next book, so that's mostly why I don't think the 13 POV rule is going to stick. That's just my take on things though, lol

I recall reading speculation that the 13 POVs mentioned are the 13 POVs who will still be alive at the end, though I'd find that rather odd.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In his latest notablog post found here.

Seems like he is behind plan on Winds, and is once again juggling multiple projects that further slow down the writing of the book.

Editing, drafting new stuff for HBO, who knows. Clearly the interruption he allowed of going to Europe the past few weeks will have done his progress zero favours.

Hopefully he will use the rare conventions cancellation he has done to actually proceed with the book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm trying not to over-analyze. After all, when I was a few 1000 words away from finishing last novel and thus thought I wouldn't make my self-imposed deadline, I kept ranting about being "WAY BEHIND!" But earlier on in writing the book when I'd skipped almost an entire week of writing I didn't feel as anxious.



It turned out that I had insane progress that week. I had previously been lucky to get 1000 words a day, but the last week and a half I was writing between 3 and 4K.



So GRRM might indeed be behind on Winds, or he might be days behind whatever his weekly goal is. He might be kicking butt on the book, he might be slacking. We won't know unless he gives us a progress update.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just can't read anything either that optimistic or pessimistic into most of these statements he makes. This thread is VERY speculative, imo. Apparently over-analysis isn't just for the books here on Westeros.



"Way behind" could mean anything. Perhaps he wanted to be finished this summer and therefore considers himself way behind. For me this wouldn't be bad. Or perhaps he wanted to be finished by next year and considers himself "way behind" that projection. For me this would be a negative.



But it all seems about 99.8% guesswork. There is no meat to any of these statements he is making.



And I can't read anything that positively or negatively into meeting with his publisher either. It's something he does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speculation? here?!

No. Way.

I think it's time everyone took a deep breath and realized that Winds wont make the beginning of season 6 'deadline'.

There's been 5 seasons of GOT in the four years since ADWD came out. And the show will not stop now.

Principle photography may have already started for all I know.

But we don't have a release date for TWOW yet.

And we won't this year. I just don't see it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GRRM wanted TWoW to come out 3 years after ADWD tops, so on that metric is already "Way behind." I really would not read anything more into his statements than that. If he finishes TWoW tomorrow, he's still way behind schedule.



As for seeing his publishers in NYC, it's because he's in town for the wedding so will take advantage of the proximity to swing by. Again, don't read anything more than that into it. He may use that opportunity to deliver more completed chapters or he may just chew the fat, apologise that the book's not done and then suggest they get coffee. We have no idea.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speculation? here?!

No. Way.

I think it's time everyone took a deep breath and realized that Winds wont make the beginning of season 6 'deadline'.

There's been 5 seasons of GOT in the four years since ADWD came out. And the show will not stop now.

Principle photography may have already started for all I know.

But we don't have a release date for TWOW yet.

And we won't this year. I just don't see it.

Ok, this was a little ironic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 POV characters seems pretty straightforward. The prologue won't be counted (as normal) and we have nine already: Aeron, Arianne, Arya, Barristan, Bran, Sansa, Theon, Tyrion, Victarion.

Five more is pretty obvious: Daenerys, Cersei, either Jaime or Brienne (they're in the same place, so both is unnecessary), Davos and Samwell Tarly.

Asha won't be necessary as she'll be with Theon; Jon Connington won't be necessary as that story is being taken over by Arianne; Jon and Mel won't be necessary as we'll likely completely sit out on the Wall to start with (I expect them to return mid-book or towards the end though).

That only leaves us one character overboard. That can perhaps be down to one POV being killed off pretty quickly (so if Barristan dies after just three chapters, maybe all written for ADWD, then GRRM might not have been counting him) or maybe a character having only one chapter in the early book and coming back later (or not at all). It's entirely possible, if unlikely, that Sam only gets one chapter as a sort of "reading montage", or Bran gets a single infodump chapter and that's about it.

Another possibility is that Aeron has been ditched - GRRM definitely wrote stuff for him, but what's going on back on the Iron Islands seems to be small fry right now and might have been jettisoned in favour of other storylines, with us finding out Aeron's stuff from other characters.

Interesting breakdown. I think I would go with the interpretation that 13 is not how may POVs are in the book but how many are left in the end, because your summary served to show me that 13 POVs isn't enough to tell the story.

Something is in the works on the Iron Islands and only Damphair is in place to tell it. He is not ditched. It will connect back to whatever happens with Asha and Theon. IMO Theon is doomed rather early in the book so don't know why you would list him and cross off Asha. Asha will last longer. Sam is also definitely a POV in WoW. The only eyes on Euron's activities.

Barristan, Vic, Arianne and JonCon are doomed. My hunch is Cersei is as well...her death is the biggest transition of power the story has yet had, so necessary.

13 POVs end of WoW:

1. Tyrion (Meereen, Volantis)

2. Dany (Dothraki, maybe Braavos and/or Dorne (red door))

3. Jon/Ghost

4. Sansa (Vale, North)

5. Davos (North, ...?)

6. Arya (Braavos, ...?)

7. Bran (far North)

8. Sam (Reach)

9. Asha (Iron Islands)

10. Brienne (Riverlands)

Less necessary and may die, as Cersei and Arianne *might* survive the book:

11. Hotah (Dorne)

12. Jamie

13. Damphair

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a recent blog entry GRRM mentioned that 'I am going to see my editors and publishers and agents while I am in [staten Island]' It's unlikely he'd be meeting with them if he has no significant progress to discuss with them? Right...?

Here's the link btw: http://grrm.livejournal.com/433906.html

See the quote from his answer to a comment below:

Fan: Not sure if you can answer this or not but I assume that at this meeting with your publishers, editors and agents that the Winds of Winter will be talked about?

GRRM: Oh, I imagine so. It comes up from time to time, can't think why.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...