R+L=J v.139

[Alia of the knife]

I would really like to learn where and why he did so... Was it Harrenhal? Was it during his travels after Aegons birth? Or was it at another time? Somewhere in the year before the war...

I would too, but though the Mountain has been portrayed as brutish, he may have been clever enough to hide his barbarism.

He abused his brother, and a hallmark of abuse is hiding it and keeping secrets.

But yeah, I would be surprised if you could keep a lid on the Mountains level of brutality.

[Ser Creighton]

I would really like to learn where and why he did so... Was it Harrenhal? Was it during his travels after Aegons birth? Or was it at another time? Somewhere in the year before the war...

I am not sure Lannister men would of attended Harrenhal, Jaime had to be there but outside of that I don't recall any Lannister men being mentioned. I think we would of heard of the Mountain being at Harrenhal by now, or him being Knighted there.

It appears to happened either right before or right after and like many things Rhaegar did makes little sense to the reader with the limited information. But I am guessing it was the Kingswood Brotherhood, which also seems to have concluded in 281, busy year. Arthur Knights Jaime, and Rhaegar Knights Gregor, these two men would kill what remained of the Targaryens in Westeros on the same day. The Mountain once again finds himself in KL, protecting Cersei and of course Tommen, I am sure this will work out well. Tommen has cats like Rhaenys, well she had 1 and Tommen has 3. But I am sure ZombieFrankenMountainGregor will be a big improvment over Gregor 1.0.

[Avalatis]

Avalatis,

well, that would be cheating. Especially since Dany's three sacrifices in AGoT - Viserys, Rhaego, and Drogo - sort of symbolically are reflected in the three dragons (lightbringers) she got - Viserion, Rhaegal, and Drogon. And yes, I know that Rhaegal was named after Rhaegar.

The 'reborn thing' should also not be taken literally. Westerosi metaphysics does not suggest that rebirth is a common thing or that dead souls are reborn on a regular basis. Until proven otherwise I'd suggest that Azor Ahai Reborn is an expected/prophesied hero (or rather a bundle of heroes) who is supposed to loosely fulfill the same role as Azor Ahai 1.0 while not actually being literally the same guy in a new body.

Also note that the Targaryen prophecy version only speaks of a promised prince - that guy does not seem to 'return' but rather is expected to finally show up.

Mountain knighting stuff:

That's no big deal, I imagine. Being knighted by some celebrity happens all the time. Remember how all the knights of the Blackwater were knighted by the Kingsguard after the battle? Rhaegar could either have knighted Gregor as a favor to Tywin while he was still hand, along with another bunch of Westermen or at Harrenhal after Gregor showed some prowess at during some squire competition.

Well if that is the case, there still doesn't need to be a Nissa Nissa. As for the examples with Dany i would suggest those aren't the same as Nissa Nissa. In the story Azor Ahai was intentionally attempting to forge this great weapon. He fails twice in his long labors to finally come to the conclusion that he must sacrifice his love. Dany at no point chooses to sacrifice her love for a weapon. All 3 examples Viserys, Rhaego, and Drogo were outside her control for the most part. They were not her intentionally killing the one she loved in order to forge lightbringer.

Nissa Nissa seems like a choice. Choosing to kill a loved one for a purpose. I guess Ygritte who Jon love could be his Nissa Nissa. He loved her. He betrayed her. She died in his arms as he chose his duty over his love for her. Not that I think this is a direct parallel to Nissa Nissa, but it's more of a one then the 3 sacrifices you listed.

And I'm not convinced it's nothing more then a origin story for a possible weapon. Or it is an expression of Symbolism as has been spelled out by a few of the contributors to this thread. Such as sacrificing love for duty caused an imbalance, so one must sacrifice duty for love (as Ned did) to restore it?

[Lord Varys]

The Nissa Nissa story is popular version of the tale told us by Salladhor Saar, not exactly a follower of R'hllor or a friend of the cult.

There is no reason to believe that this story is 1:1 what happened with the historical Azor Ahai or the 1:1 explanation what the reborn version had to do.

Daenerys consciously chose not to intervene on Viserys' behalf - she allowed Drogo to kill him/sacrificed him. Daenerys apparently knew that Rhaego was the sacrifice for Drogo's healing, and Drogo was clearly a sacrifice as he was killed by Daenerys herself. Drogo's ghost even hatched the dragon eggs for Daenerys. He was her son-and-stars, and he had to die for her to gain the dragons.

Not to mention that Dany actually tried to hatch the dragon eggs three times in the books just as Azor Ahai tried to forge Lightbringer three times. The last time she knew how it would work.

Those are subtle parallels, but they are there, and there aren't coincidences.

Ygritte wasn't even killed by Jon, and neither was she the person he loved most dearly. That seems to be Arya - the person he was willing to march south for. And Ygritte's did also not result in forging a magic sword nor in hatching a dragon egg, so I don't see a parallel there.

The Lightbringer story implies that you have to be the ultimate price to get the ultimate magic thing. It is warm like Nissa Nissa had been warm. It is a transfer of life energy and emotion into magical energy - both of which Daenerys had done to create her dragons.

[TheRealRedRonnet]

I feel there was strong foreshadowing in AGoT when Miz tells Danny she is skilled in the bed of blood. And Ned's own reflections specify Lyanna in a bed of blood.

[Avalatis]

The Nissa Nissa story is popular version of the tale told us by Salladhor Saar, not exactly a follower of R'hllor or a friend of the cult.

There is no reason to believe that this story is 1:1 what happened with the historical Azor Ahai or the 1:1 explanation what the reborn version had to do.

Daenerys consciously chose not to intervene on Viserys' behalf - she allowed Drogo to kill him/sacrificed him. Daenerys apparently knew that Rhaego was the sacrifice for Drogo's healing, and Drogo was clearly a sacrifice as he was killed by Daenerys herself. Drogo's ghost even hatched the dragon eggs for Daenerys. He was her son-and-stars, and he had to die for her to gain the dragons.

Not to mention that Dany actually tried to hatch the dragon eggs three times in the books just as Azor Ahai tried to forge Lightbringer three times. The last time she knew how it would work.

Those are subtle parallels, but they are there, and there aren't coincidences.

Ygritte wasn't even killed by Jon, and neither was she the person he loved most dearly. That seems to be Arya - the person he was willing to march south for. And Ygritte's did also not result in forging a magic sword nor in hatching a dragon egg, so I don't see a parallel there.

The Lightbringer story implies that you have to be the ultimate price to get the ultimate magic thing. It is warm like Nissa Nissa had been warm. It is a transfer of life energy and emotion into magical energy - both of which Daenerys had done to create her dragons.

It doesn't have to be one for one. But the Dany examples are nothing more than the fact that she lost people she loved. Every character in the story has something like that.

You're stretching it if you think Viserys was a sacrifice. He was asking to be killed and had treated her like total crap (then and leading up to that point). His very actions required death. This was not a choice made by her, but more by him (or Drogo). Her choosing not to beg for her brothers life is not a sacrifice. And finally this sacrifice how nothing to do with forging a weapon, or even symbolic duty over love. It's also a stretch to think she felt any actual love for Viserys at this point in the story.

Drogo died by his own arrogance. The shell of a creature that was resurrected by the Sheep witch was not her sun and stars. She put the creature out of its misery. What head cannon are you talking about that Drogo's spirit hatched the dragon eggs? She again did not kill him in an effort to forge a weapon or "for duty".

Rhaego doesn't work for multiple reasons. 1.) I haven't seen any evidence to suggest she new she would lose the baby by the ritual. Her rage at the woman and the eventual burning of her. 2.) The ritual had nothing to do with forging a weapon/dragons it was to save Drogo. 3.) She doesn't have anything more than a maternal love for the baby who wasn't born.

If she did attempt to hatch the eggs 3 times that might be the only parallel. Though you will need to refresh me on these attempts.

Your argument would apply to Azor Ahai as well. He didn't truly love Nissa Nissa, he must have loved the world more. He did love her, he chose his duty and honor over her. She died directly because of his action. Had he chosen love over duty she would not have died. It was a short love, and not a direct parallel. But it definitely matches up with the story significantly more than the Dany examples.

The Lightbringer story implies that you have to be the ultimate price to get the ultimate magic thing.

If there is no choice then every character in the series will have a light bringer. Each and every one of them has lost loved ones and paid the price (and they all made choices as you're claiming Dany did). But for the Nissa Nissa parallel to work the person must be making a conscious choice to kill one they love in order to do something (be it to hatch dragons, forge a sword, fulfill prophecy by choosing duty over love resulting in the death of their love).

[Lord Varys]

I suggest you reread the last chapter of AGoT at once before you use the word 'head canon' ever again in that context... This is hardly an interpretation. Daenerys sees Drogo's ghost, and his whip actually hatches the three dragon eggs.

Dany tries to hatch the eggs three times by putting them into the fire. The third time works when the magical stuff is added to it.

Viserys is important for Dany, as she continues to think about him, and considers him to be her only family left alive after her parents' death. It is no coincidence that he shows up in her visions in ADwD.

Other stuff that makes Dany more special than any other character:

Magic/destiny/providence seems to intervene and magically enable her to overcome her being abused and raped by Drogo and turn her pain and trauma into 'love' Reread her first dragon dream chapter which ends with her actively settling into her role as khaleesi and having sex with Drogo under the stars.

Drogo clearly is Drogo until the end of his life.

The problem with the historical Azor Ahai story is that you assume that Azor Ahai actually wanted to forge a magic sword. Perhaps that was what people later thought he did, but perhaps he did not want to do it in the first place. And it is stated that the knowledge what to do came to him when the third time. Just as Dany is shaped by her experiences and eventually realized what she had to do. She has as of yet no idea what she is about to become or what destiny demands her to do. And she did not know what she had to do or what she had to want to do until the pyre. Then she 'knew' what destiny wanted her to do. You can walk away from your destiny - Dany tried throughout most of ASoS and throughout ADwD until her last chapter. It seems she is going to get back on track now.

[Avalatis]

I suggest you reread the last chapter of AGoT at once before you use the word 'head canon' ever again in that context... This is hardly an interpretation. Daenerys sees Drogo's ghost, and his whip actually hatches the three dragon eggs.

Dany tries to hatch the eggs three times by putting them into the fire. The third time works when the magical stuff is added to it.

Viserys is important for Dany, as she continues to think about him, and considers him to be her only family left alive after her parents' death. It is no coincidence that he shows up in her visions in ADwD.

Other stuff that makes Dany more special than any other character:

Magic/destiny/providence seems to intervene and magically enable her to overcome her being abused and raped by Drogo and turn her pain and trauma into 'love' Reread her first dragon dream chapter which ends with her actively settling into her role as khaleesi and having sex with Drogo under the stars.

Drogo clearly is Drogo until the end of his life.

The problem with the historical Azor Ahai story is that you assume that Azor Ahai actually wanted to forge a magic sword. Perhaps that was what people later thought he did, but perhaps he did not want to do it in the first place. And it is stated that the knowledge what to do came to him when the third time. Just as Dany is shaped by her experiences and eventually realized what she had to do. She has as of yet no idea what she is about to become or what destiny demands her to do. And she did not know what she had to do or what she had to want to do until the pyre. Then she 'knew' what destiny wanted her to do. You can walk away from your destiny - Dany tried throughout most of ASoS and throughout ADwD until her last chapter. It seems she is going to get back on track now.

Head Cannon because no one took that scene as him actually hatching the dragons. From the wiki:

Though Drogo is unconcerned with his minor wound, Daenerys convinces him to let Mirri Maz Duur, a Lhazareen maegi she had rescued, make him a poultice. The poultice itches, and Drogo tears it off, causing the wound to fester. Drogo's condition deteriorates until he falls from his horse, a symbolic event in Dothraki culture that indicates he is no longer fit to lead. As he lingers near death, Daenerys convinces Mirri Maz Duur to use her blood magic to preserve his life by sacrificing his stallion.^[8] The maegi betrays her in revenge for the attack on her village, and the ritual only returns Drogo to a catatonic state, while causing their child to die in Daenerys' womb. Realizing that Drogo would never return to his former state, Dany smothers him with a pillow and builds him a funeral pyre as his khalasar breaks apart. She burns his body on the pyre along with Mirri Maz Duur and enters the flames with her petrified dragon eggs. The flames magically trade life for life, killing the maegi and hatching the three dragons while leaving Daenerys unharmed.

Viserys had a huge impact on Dany, there is no doubt. That does not mean she loved him by the time Drogo killed him.

Drogo is not clearly Drogo after the ritual. It is just a shell, and she knew that. He was lost to her.

The problem with the historical Azor Ahai story is that you assume that Azor Ahai actually wanted to forge a magic sword.

Is it a prophecy or not? If it's an orgin story of Lightbringer then our conversation has come full circle. If it's a prophecy of creating a magical weapon it isn't a failed interpretation of events. If it's just symbolism then again the symbolism is about making a conscious choice.

[addicted to snow]

The story/prophesy of forging Lightbringer is very detailed & very specific for it to be symbolism or metaphoric in some hidden way... GRRM did not give us this detail while planning to have the character AAR forge Lightbringer by an alternate means.

Swords, actual swords have take on a very prominent role in ASOIAF, especially family swords. GRRM has told quite a story about the Stark Sword ICE & what has home of it. He has also carefully placed a single blacksmith who 'kinda' knows how to reforge Valerian Steel, though he may not know the exact recipe & the hero will have to try & try again... All these little details suggest to me that Lightbringer will be an actual Sword...

Definitely not cheesy symbolism like Lightbringer = The Night's Watch...

Lightbringer = A Sword

Nissa Nissa = A Person (LS)

Azor Ahi = A character(s) who will be re-born into Jon's dead body (but not Jon)...

[RumHam]

Personally I really don't think Lightbringer is a sword. What difference could one sword make? even in the hands of the best swordsman in the world. (Who the usual Azor Ahai suspects are not.) I would be very surprised if Lightbringer isn't the dragons. What else could make that kind of difference in the coming war? Plus we already have obsidian blades that can kill the White Walkers/Neverborn easily.

When your dragons were small they were a wonder. Grown, they are death and devastation, a flaming sword above the world."

[Avalatis]

Personally I really don't think Lightbringer is a sword. What difference could one sword make? even in the hands of the best swordsman in the world. (Who the usual Azor Ahai suspects are not.) I would be very surprised if Lightbringer isn't the dragons. What else could make that kind of difference in the coming war? Plus we already have obsidian blades that can kill the White Walkers/Neverborn easily.

It's possible. But dragons have existed before and there is nothing special about Dany's dragons that we've seen so far. In fact they seem less capable. They also don't seem to maturing fast enough to be incredibly relevant by the end of the series (unless Martin does a time jump).

If the dragons were the key, why didn't the prophecies the Targaryens followed tell them to take as many dragons as they can and ensure they never go extinct? Their prophecies focus on escaping the Doom and ensuring their bloodline.

As for what a magical sword can do (not that I'm convinced it will be a sword). We don't know, as there haven't been any actual magical swords shown in the series. It could have an aura that weakens the others and their forces. It could be something lame and be the only weapon that can kill the heart of winter, so the prince who is promised will have to travel deep into the winter and slay the heart to stop the invasion. No armies (with or without dragons) can withstand the coming winter. The sword could provide a warming presence that shields the humans armies from the death chill of the others. So as long as the hero welds the sword the armies can fight at their full potential without freezing to death.

Needless to say if you've read fantasy it doesn't take that much imagination to think of what a magical sword can do against a magical foe like the others. Dragons have been shown to have limits to their capabilities even in the best of times. Danys dragons are nearly feral and have no training for war. Perhaps the horn will fix this, or maybe plot armor for Dany will kick into overdrive and she'll learn some magic to tame them.

Assuming her three dragons are fully mature and are in peak fighting performance to the standards of the Valarians there is no reason to think it would be enough. The histories have shown that mere humans have been able to beat the dragons from time to time. The Others are an ancient foe who might predate dragons (which begs to question how the dragons beat them the first time). Azor Ahai and Lightbringer seem to be crucial in defeating the long night. I'm just not seeing the dragons as they have been so far been shown in the books being able to do more then hinder the Others.

I have the feeling the Dragons will save the day during a battle when all seems lost. This will be followed up with ice dragons or some such nonsense being used to neutralize the advantage.

[Han Snow]

Personally I really don't think Lightbringer is a sword. What difference could one sword make? even in the hands of the best swordsman in the world. (Who the usual Azor Ahai suspects are not.) I would be very surprised if Lightbringer isn't the dragons. What else could make that kind of difference in the coming war? Plus we already have obsidian blades that can kill the White Walkers/Neverborn easily.

Lightbringer is more than one thing. It is/was a man, a sword, a dragon, a comet, an organization dedicated to shielding the realm of men. Jon is the Lightbringer, Dany's dragons are the Lightbringer, Night's Watch is the Lightbringer. The question is how are they going to be used?! Yes, even Jon has to be used. The power of his heritage, legitimate or not, it does not matter, but it will be used in one way or the other.

Avalatis :

We don't know, as there haven't been any actual magical swords shown in the series

What a complete and utter nonsense. Valyrian swords are magical. Dawn is certainly magical. There are loads of magical swords in the books.

[Avalatis]

Lightbringer is more than one thing. It is/was a man, a sword, a dragon, a comet, an organization dedicated to shielding the realm of men. Jon is the Lightbringer, Dany's dragons are the Lightbringer, Night's Watch is the Lightbringer. The question is how are they going to be used?! Yes, even Jon has to be used. The power of his heritage, legitimate or not, it does not matter, but it will be used in one way or the other.

Well as the name implies it brings the light. So the Long Night will be ended by the Lightbringer. So is the Sword of the Morning just a red herring? It's hard to not think it will serve some purpose in the story... But maybe not.

[Lord Varys]

Dragon swords - swords forged in the same or a very similar fashion as Valyrian steel - and stuff may become prominent again but they may only be part of the, say, weapons the foot soldiers of the savior(s) will wield, not the hero(es) themselves.

Note that neither obsidian nor Valyrian steel is warm, just as Stannis sword isn't - despite the fact that dragon glass and Valyrian steel weapons may be (or are) able to kill Others. Not even Dawn - the best candidate for the historical Lightbringer - is a literally 'burning sword'.

But dragons are literally warm/hot like Lightbringer was supposed to be, and they literally bring light and warmth by setting the world aflame. I cannot see a better way attack and defeat the Others than on dragonback, especially not during the first War for the Dawn when the Others supposedly were near victory.

Avalatis,

you should not quote the wiki. After all, I could have written that ;-). AGoT has Daenerys Targaryen see Khal Drogo as a spirit hatching the dragon eggs with his whip. That is a fact. Whether this actually happened can be discussed but the implication there is that Drogo was the (or one of the) sacrifices hatching the eggs, not Mirri Maz Duur. Or rather - Mirri was a lesser ingredient for the spell whereas Dany giving up Drogo was of paramount importance. Which is exactly what makes Daenerys a very interesting 'Azor Ahai figure' as she did more or less what this fairy-tale character but dialed up to epic proportions.

Drogo may no longer have been his mind but if your grandfather has Alzheimer's, shits himself, and does not remember you or anything he has ever done in his life he is still your grandfather. Physically, at least.

As to dragons:

The Azor Ahai/promised prince prophecies are obviously vague. Especially what the exact purpose of the savior actually is. Melisandre originally does not tell Stannis to go to the Wall. Rhaegar had apparently no clue in what war the promised prince is supposed to fight (or against what enemy). Benerro describes Daenerys as Azor Ahai as a sort of common savior fighting 'darkness', and bringing eternal life/rebirth to those fighting/dying in her service.

The Valyrians as well as the Targaryens bred and used their dragons for war. But note that Rhaenyra and Daemon were originally reluctant to use their dragons in the Dance - did they know something the historians did not uncover/tell us?

The search for the savior was not exactly an agenda or major thing in the history of Westeros or the Western world. Some people may have believed in the prophecy, and some dragonlords and later Targaryens may have believed or known something but this is really hard to uncover. The Valyrians had prophetic knowledge about something evil in the West/the end of the world. Daenys the Dreamer may have made the original prophecy about the promised prince, and Aerys I may have recovered it during his reign/or before that. Egg knows of a prophecy that foretells the return of the dragons - which could be the prophecy of the promised prince, I imagine

[Avalatis]

Avalatis :

What a complete and utter nonsense. Valyrian swords are magical. Dawn is certainly magical. There are loads of magical swords in the books.

Yeah technically they are magical. But that isn't the type of "Magic Sword" we are referencing. They are just incredibly well crafted swords that don't suffer from normal wear and tear as other swords (as far as we've seen in the story, this might change as soon as we see them in action against the others).

[RumHam]

It's possible. But dragons have existed before and there is nothing special about Dany's dragons that we've seen so far. In fact they seem less capable. They also don't seem to maturing fast enough to be incredibly relevant by the end of the series (unless Martin does a time jump).

Yes, dragons have existed before. I'm not really sure how that's a mark against them or their effectiveness against the Others. They don't need to be special they just need to be alive when the Others invade. I believe Martin has said the dragons will grow as much as the plot requires. They do seem to have grown faster than the dragons we read about during the Dance.

If the dragons were the key, why didn't the prophecies the Targaryens followed tell them to take as many dragons as they can and ensure they never go extinct? Their prophecies focus on escaping the Doom and ensuring their bloodline.

What would be the fun in that? You may as well ask why Maggy the Frog didn't explain her cryptic statements to Cersei. Or why the Prince that was Promised prophecy says things like "the place of salt and smoke" instead of just saying Dragonstone or some alternate location.

As for what a magical sword can do (not that I'm convinced it will be a sword). We don't know, as there haven't been any actual magical swords shown in the series. It could have an aura that weakens the others and their forces. It could be something lame and be the only weapon that can kill the heart of winter, so the prince who is promised will have to travel deep into the winter and slay the heart to stop the invasion. No armies (with or without dragons) can withstand the coming winter. The sword could provide a warming presence that shields the humans armies from the death chill of the others. So as long as the hero welds the sword the armies can fight at their full potential without freezing to death.

Needless to say if you've read fantasy it doesn't take that much imagination to think of what a magical sword can do against a magical foe like the others. Dragons have been shown to have limits to their capabilities even in the best of times. Danys dragons are nearly feral and have no training for war. Perhaps the horn will fix this, or maybe plot armor for Dany will kick into overdrive and she'll learn some magic to tame them.

Assuming her three dragons are fully mature and are in peak fighting performance to the standards of the Valarians there is no reason to think it would be enough. The histories have shown that mere humans have been able to beat the dragons from time to time. The Others are an ancient foe who might predate dragons (which begs to question how the dragons beat them the first time). Azor Ahai and Lightbringer seem to be crucial in defeating the long night. I'm just not seeing the dragons as they have been so far been shown in the books being able to do more then hinder the Others.

I think the dragons would be more helpful than a sword that keeps you warm. The dragons cannot be used for war right now because only Drogon is bonded to a rider. I don't think Jon Snow or Tyrion (if he's Aery's bastard) would even need the horn to claim dragons. Once they are bonded to riders they should be able to be used effectivly. I'm not suggesting that the dragons will easily end the war once they appear. It would be boring if they just showed up and melted the entire enemy army. I'm not entirely sure the dragons were involved in the first war for the dawn. They could have been. The Others weren't actually defeated back then, just driven back somehow. It could have been with dragons, or just something the Children did.

This will be followed up with ice dragons or some such nonsense being used to neutralize the advantage.

I'm hoping for a wighted dragon rather than an ice dragon. One of the three being killed and switching sides should be enough to make things interesting. Especially if it's Drogon.

[Han Snow]

Well as the name implies it brings the light. So the Long Night will be ended by the Lightbringer. So is the Sword of the Morning just a red herring? It's hard to not think it will serve some purpose in the story... But maybe not.

Sword of the Morning is a Dayne interpretation of a history half buried, half forgotten in which they certainly played a role (a 10000 year old house with Valyrian like features!!!). It is their equivalent of Lightbringer. Yes.

[Han Snow]

Yeah technically they are magical. But that isn't the type of "Magic Sword" we are referencing. They are just incredibly well crafted swords that don't suffer from normal wear and tear as other swords (as far as we've seen in the story, this might change as soon as we see them in action against the others).

They evoke Damascus steel but they are far more than that in this universe. Obviously made with some kind of blood sacrifice involved to make them so durable. They also seem to actively aid their wielders in fight, but that is another topic entirely. Also, Dawn which is made from a Heart of a fallen star and seems to be an ancient sword as powerful as Valyrian steel or even more so, but made without the blood sacrifice. But anyway, it is off topic.

Technically is more than enough.

[Avalatis]

But dragons are literally warm/hot like Lightbringer was supposed to be, and they literally bring light and warmth by setting the world aflame. I cannot see a better way attack and defeat the Others than on dragonback, especially not during the first War for the Dawn when the Others supposedly were near victory.

So the end of the books will consist of Dany and two others flying around on Dragons burning armies of undead and others? Yeah Obsedian works. As does fire (which humans have the ability to make without dragons).

you should not quote the wiki. After all, I could have written that ;-).

I guess we can quote entire sequence over a dozen pages... The point is that when you read the sequence what you implied is not a take away from it.

AGoT has Daenerys Targaryen see Khal Drogo as a spirit hatching the dragon eggs with his whip. That is a fact. Whether this actually happened can be discussed but the implication there is that Drogo was the (or one of the) sacrifices hatching the eggs, not Mirri Maz Duur.

And? So we will just assume Khal Drogo is the father of dragons. He obviously hatched them. Why is Dany called the mother of dragons? What a liar. Blood magic was used to hatch the dragons, and Dany was the one who invoked that blood magic. If something else happened behind the scenes we as the readers have been given no clues to it.

r rather - Mirri was a lesser ingredient for the spell whereas Dany giving up Drogo was of paramount importance

Drogo was already dead. She didn't burn him alive. This was a funeral pyre for him. If it was simply Dany giving up Drogo the moment she decided to end the catatonic state of his body would have been the moment the dragons were born.

Which is exactly what makes Daenerys a very interesting 'Azor Ahai figure' as she did more or less what this fairy-tale character but dialed up to epic proportions.

No she really didn't. Had she killed a fully functional and healthy Drogo in a fire to hatch the dragons then I would agree. a.) He died of his own arrogance, not her b.) He was already dead by the time the fire ritual occurred.

Drogo may no longer have been his mind but if your grandfather has Alzheimer's, shits himself, and does not remember you or anything he has ever done in his life he is still your grandfather. Physically, at least.

As is a corpse. This is a pointless argument.

Some people may have believed in the prophecy, and some dragonlords and later Targaryens may have believed or known something but this is really hard to uncover.

The Targaryens seemed to as their move to Dragonstone was motivated by prophecy. Why would the prophecies make such a big stink about Dragons if Dragons were a common element in the world for centuries on end. It would have made more sense to preserve the Dragons they had (which were bred for specialized tasks) then try and rebirth them only a few years before the Long Night.

Dragon history also does not go back far enough to match up with the original Long Night. There is a lot of speculation about them. But no culture as far as we're aware of had dragons, much less dragon riders, when the original long night happened. And again what exactly did these Dragons do to end the Long Night? Hunt down and burn the helpless Others who had no means of fighting back against dragons?

[RumHam]

The Targaryens seemed to as their move to Dragonstone was motivated by prophecy. Why would the prophecies make such a big stink about Dragons if Dragons were a common element in the world for centuries on end. It would have made more sense to preserve the Dragons they had (which were bred for specialized tasks) then try and rebirth them only a few years before the Long Night.

It's worth noting that the Targaryen version of the propechy, the "Prince that was Promised" version, does not mention Lightbringer or any kind of mythical sword. That's a key part of the Asshai version of the legend where the hero is called Azor Ahai.