[TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 3

[The Bard of Banefort]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:57 AM, Mithras said:

When the Hedge Knight was written, fAegon did not exist. I find it hilarious that the Ashford theory refuses to die even after so much evidence against it.

The Blackfyres didn’t exist. There were always theories that Aegon was still alive due to the fixation on his unrecognizable face after the murder.

[StarksInTheNorth]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:57 AM, Mithras said:

When the Hedge Knight was written, fAegon did not exist. I find it hilarious that the Ashford theory refuses to die even after so much evidence against it.

I am not one of these people, but there are a certain group of shippers who think the last pairing for Sansa is Jon Snow because of the Targaryen connection. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

10 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

I am not one of these people, but there are a certain group of shippers who think the last pairing for Sansa is Jon Snow because of the Targaryen connection. 

Even if the tourney lineup is just one incredible coincidence, I still think Littlefinger is planning on wedding Sansa to fAegon. This is LF we're talking about: he always has greater ambitions beyond what he'll admit to. And as this chapter showed, he's intent on teaching Sansa how to beguile young men. . . 

[Nevets]

On 10/1/2021 at 9:27 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Even if the tourney lineup is just one incredible coincidence, I still think Littlefinger is planning on wedding Sansa to fAegon. This is LF we're talking about: he always has greater ambitions beyond what he'll admit to. And as this chapter showed, he's intent on teaching Sansa how to beguile young men. . . 

Two problems with Aegon marrying Sansa.  Aegon has no reason to marry Sansa, and Sansa has no reason to marry Aegon.

Aegon needs military strength and political support. Sansa can provide neither, on her own.  Littlefinger might be able to bring the Vale along, or not.  The Vale lords might very well tell him to go jump in a lake.  Arianne and Margaery are more logical choices.  Hell, even Myrcella makes more sense.  At least they can merge dynasties.

Sansa would be asked to be Queen Consort to a teenager she has never met and knows nothing about, in Kings Landing, surrounded by rivals and enemies.  This plot sounds familiar, and it didn't work out well the last time.  Sansa's interests are in the North, and Aegon is probably going to have his hands full consolidating power in Kings Landing as it is.

Neither one really has anything to offer the other.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Nevets

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 hours ago, Nevets said:

Two problems with Aegon marrying Sansa.  Aegon has no reason to marry Sansa, and Sansa has no reason to marry Aegon.

Aegon needs military strength and political support. Sansa can provide neither, on her own.  Littlefinger might be able to bring the Vale along, or not.  The Vale lords might very well tell him to go jump in a lake.  Arianne and Margaery are more logical choices.  Hell, even Myrcella makes more sense.  At least they can merge dynasties.

Sansa would be asked to be Queen Consort to a teenager she has never met and knows nothing about, in Kings Landing, surrounded by rivals and enemies.  This plot sounds familiar, and it didn't work out well the last time.  Sansa's interests are in the North, and Aegon is probably going to have his hands full consolidating power in Kings Landing as it is.

Neither one really has anything to offer the other.

He has no reason to marry Arianne either. The kid’s already half-Martell. 

Aegon is still a teenager, and we’ve seen many examples of bad political decisions that were made based on love and lust. Aside from her natural beauty, there’s a reason why LF is so keen on grooming Sansa to flirt with and manipulate men.

Granted, I don’t think we’ll ever see a marriage between her and Aegon come to fruition, largely thanks to Tyrion. I also don’t think Sansa herself will fall for Aegon; she’s extremely suspicious of men now, especially handsome young kings. But whether we like it or not, Sansa is still a pawn and captive to LF. It’s going to be a while before she is able to break free. 

[HoodedCrow]

Littlefinger has wealth.( people will marry down for money…way down and a coat of arms and a lineage can be fudged)). LF has food. If LF dies, Alayne is his heir. 

[StarksInTheNorth]

On 10/3/2021 at 7:05 AM, Nevets said:

Two problems with Aegon marrying Sansa.  Aegon has no reason to marry Sansa, and Sansa has no reason to marry Aegon.

Actually marrying Aegon versus it being suggested by LF are two different things, and the outcomes of each “betrothal” have varied greatly. For example, Tyrion actually married Sansa, while the Willas betrothal only lasted a chapter or three.

So for the theory to hold up, it could work just to have LF suggest “X has happened to Harry, I’m going to send a messenger to this Golden Company invasion and try to arrange a betrothal between you and Rhaegar’s son.” Then in the next Sansa or Sansa-adjacent chapter, they can get news that the plan was thwarted (Aegon marries Margaery or Myrcella or Arianne or Elia, Aegon dies, or something else).

Thus the prophecy is fulfilled because she was “betrothed” to Aegon but nothing more happened.

Personally I think the theory is probably just fun speculation or coincidence, though I do like the point that the Ashford Tourney was broken up by Duncan the Tall and two likely descendants of Duncan’s are adjacent to Sansa’s plot who could also break up the Vale Tourney (Sandor and Brienne).

[Daeron the Daring]

On 10/3/2021 at 5:21 PM, HoodedCrow said:

Littlefinger has wealth.( people will marry down for money…way down and a coat of arms and a lineage can be fudged)). LF has food. If LF dies, Alayne is his heir. 

Bastards don't inherit. Nevermind that they're the last of their line or anything, they don't have a right to. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Daeron the Daring

[The Bard of Banefort]

On 10/11/2021 at 1:00 PM, StarksInTheNorth said:

Actually marrying Aegon versus it being suggested by LF are two different things, and the outcomes of each “betrothal” have varied greatly. For example, Tyrion actually married Sansa, while the Willas betrothal only lasted a chapter or three.

So for the theory to hold up, it could work just to have LF suggest “X has happened to Harry, I’m going to send a messenger to this Golden Company invasion and try to arrange a betrothal between you and Rhaegar’s son.” Then in the next Sansa or Sansa-adjacent chapter, they can get news that the plan was thwarted (Aegon marries Margaery or Myrcella or Arianne or Elia, Aegon dies, or something else).

Thus the prophecy is fulfilled because she was “betrothed” to Aegon but nothing more happened.

Personally I think the theory is probably just fun speculation or coincidence, though I do like the point that the Ashford Tourney was broken up by Duncan the Tall and two likely descendants of Duncan’s are adjacent to Sansa’s plot who could also break up the Vale Tourney (Sandor and Brienne).

Well, I have always said that if Sansa and Dunk were alive at the same time, they’d be the OTP to rule them all. . .

[StarksInTheNorth]

13 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Bastards don't inherit. Nevermind that they're the last of their line or anything, they don't have a right to. 

I’m now imaging a Cersei Wins AU where Petyr asks to have his bastard legitimized a la Ramsay Bolton, and Alayne, Lady of Harrenhal only comes to court after Cersei dies . . . 

[Daeron the Daring]

8 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

I’m now imaging a Cersei Wins AU where Petyr asks to have his bastard legitimized a la Ramsay Bolton, and Alayne, Lady of Harrenhal only comes to court after Cersei dies . . . 

That could be. But Sansa is Sansa Stark, legitimate children of Eddard Stark. They mean to reveal that at some point. I don't know if it's possible or not, but Petyr on the other hand could very well name Sansa his heir. I assume. With Alayne it is different, it mostly matters on wether Harry the Heir will be in a position this could be accepted, when/if the two marry. I'm not sure if bastards can be named heirs or the like, but they surely can't inherit naturally as trueborn children could. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

So who is Alayne giving her favor to? I’m guessing either Targon the Halfwild or one of the Sunderlands. 

[Springwatch]

Alayne could inherit. Impossible in the normal run of events, but who expects things to turn out normal? Larence Snow was a favoured candidate to inherit the Hornwood title. Jon Snow was offered Winterfell. Ramsay Snow did get Winterfell. The exception is becoming the rule nowadays.

As to the favour: she said it was promised to another, which I'd guess is a hint she'll give it to someone not a typical knight - a mystery knight maybe. Or no-one.

[remiel6]

To me this has one clear ending. Sansa somehow kills Littlefinger. There was  the prophesy, I forget which book which indicated that Sansa will kill the "giant man" which is littlefinger. A nice play on words. The character to watch here is actually Robin. Robin loves Sansa, and Robin has all the power, he is the lord of the vale. If Robin feels that Littlefinger is going to take Sansa away from him, there are any number of lords of the Vale who would love to help Robin with his problem and gain the support of the future lord. We assume Robin is weak because he's been written that way, but why? To subvert expectations. 

At some point the Vale will be word of what happened to the lord commander of the nights watch. Sansa will bide her time.

When Sansa then later hears that Jon is in fact not dead but marching on Winterfell, she will see her chance to go home. She will trust Jon more than anyone else there. Only Robin can make that happen. So she slips the truth to Robin of who she is and has Littlefinger removed so that the Vale can send a contingent of men to help retake winter fell. 

Not sure how they would get there though with the roads and everything. 

Its easy to under estimate Robin, but important to remember, he is the one with the power, not little finger. Robin is in many ways similar to Joffrey. 

My guess is that Sansa winds up with either Robin (as his mother wanted) or she never in fact separates from Tyrian and perhaps Tyrian winds up rescuing her from little finger somehow. 

[Harry the Hair]

On 10/13/2021 at 8:58 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

So who is Alayne giving her favor to? I’m guessing either Targon the Halfwild or one of the Sunderlands. 

My money is on Byron (assuming he’ll be competing) or Wallace Waynwood. Lothor Brune  was a decent jouster but idk if he’s competing and if he is she’ll probably abstain from picking him since she totally ships him with Mya. I can’t wait to see who she picks though and what the thought process behind her choice was. 

[chrisdaw]

Sansa's favour being promised to another is an allusion to Tyrion/Sandor.

[Kinola]

On 4/11/2015 at 6:59 PM, ChillyPolly said:

[1] Setup Setup Setup. Nothing really happens in this chapter. It's all setup for whatever is going to happen next, presumably with the coming tournament to serve as the setting. No wonder GRRM and his editor decided to bump it.

The calm before the storm, I believe.

On 4/11/2015 at 6:59 PM, ChillyPolly said:

[2] "Lemon-gate" continues: We now learn that those lemons do not grow in the Vale. When they run out, they have to be imported .... all the way from Dorne. Not even from somewhere closer like Pentos, or the Stormlands. Note that the Vale is about 200 miles SOUTH of Braavos.

Perhaps this is supposed to hint at a possibility that Dorne and the Vale will team up in the future? I could see Sweetrobin being betrothed to a Dornish girl instead of Sansa.

On 4/11/2015 at 6:59 PM, ChillyPolly said:

[3] Stark Girls Love Lemon Cakes. Arya & Sansa's love for lemon cakes keeps getting mentioned. Even Sweetrobin's love of lemoncakes is secondary to Sansa's. Is this symbolic in some way?

It could symbolize that Sansa and Arya aren't so different after all, despite everything. Maybe Catelyn and Lysa used to enjoy eating lemon cakes, too, when times were simpler. 

On 4/11/2015 at 6:59 PM, ChillyPolly said:

[4] Tournament: the Jousting is "invitation only" but not the melee. This is an opportunity for some unexpected character to appear. But who? Note that three of the best tournament warriors in Westeros are currently missing in action: Brienne, Sandor and Jaime.

Brienne seems like the best guess. But what about the Vale mountain clans, or someone from King's Landing who could recognize Sansa and expose her true identity? 

On 4/11/2015 at 6:59 PM, ChillyPolly said:

[5] Sweetrobin's Burning Ears: How does he know what Harry is saying behind his back? Did a little bird tell him? Is Robin a bird-warg? Does this explain the flapping he does when he goes in his fits?

I did say on another forum that I felt Sweetrobin is or will become a warg. Looks like my theory might be correct after all.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Old thread, but I was reading through the comments here and had some thoughts. For one, it's crazy that this sample chapter came out nearly seven years ago (that's longer than the gap between AFFC and ADWD). Secondly, I think most of our predictions have changed somewhat since the show ended, even if we know book-Sansa isn't going North to marry Ramsay.

My read on Sansa's relationship with Sweetrobin is that she's deeply in denial about what Littlefinger is doing to him with the sweetsleep. Something Sansa shares with Ned is her ability to compartmentalize, and we've seen that quite a bit since she became Alayne. Sansa knows deep down that Littlefinger is a predator and a monster, but she doesn't believe she has any other options, so she has willfully pushed aside all memory of Lysa's confession at the end of ASOS. (Consider the fact that, in AGOT, Ned realizes that he hasn't thought of Rhaegar in years, despite him raising Rhaegar's secret son as his own. His family's survival rested on completely adopting the role of Jon's father, so that's what he did). 

As for Harry, I've seen people suggest--not so much here, but on other websites--that Sansa still hasn't learned her lesson and is falling for Harry the Arse. Remember, Sansa thinks she's going to be spending the rest of her life with this guy. She's looking for things to like about him and trying to charm him so that they have some semblance of a good relationship in the decades ahead.

Sansa dancing with every notable man at the feast, and many of them trying to hit on her beforehand, reminds me a bit of Ashara at Harrenhal. I doubt this tourney will end the same for Sansa as it did Ashara, but George does seem to be setting her up as this bewitching young woman who catches the eye of every man she meets.

[Harry the Hair]

9 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Sansa dancing with every notable man at the feast, and many of them trying to hit on her beforehand, reminds me a bit of Ashara at Harrenhal. I doubt this tourney will end the same for Sansa as it did Ashara, but George does seem to be setting her up as this bewitching young woman who catches the eye of every man she meets.

I’m getting a call back to Lysa’s crazy rambling about that time  when lords Bracken and Blackwood visited the Tullys to settle a dispute: 

Quote

Lysa descended from the high seat, her skirts swirling. "Did you come with Lord Bracken and Lord Blackwood, the time they visited to lay their feud before my father? Lord Bracken's singer played for us, and Catelyn danced six dances with Petyr that night, six, I counted. When the lords began to argue my father took them up to his audience chamber, so there was no one to stop us drinking. Edmure got drunk, young as he was . . . and Petyr tried to kiss your mother, only she pushed him away. She laughed at him. He looked so wounded I thought my heart would burst, and afterward he drank until he passed out at the table. 

ASOS, Sansa VII

Spoiler

“I hate that Harry,” Sweetrobin said when she was gone. “He calls me cousin, but he’s just waiting for me to die so he can take the Eyrie. He thinks I don’t know, but I do.”

“Your lordship should not believe such nonsense,” Alayne said. “I’m sure Ser Harrold loves you well.” And if the gods are good, he will love me too. Her tummy gave a little flutter.

“He doesn’t,” Lord Robert insisted. “He wants my father’s castle, that’s all, so he pretends.” The boy clutched the blanket to his pimply chest. “I don’t want you to marry him, Alayne. I am the Lord of the Eyrie, and I forbid it.” He sounded as if he were about to cry. “You should marry me instead. We could sleep in the same bed every night, and you could read me stories.”
…

Robert wiped his nose. “But I want — “

She put a finger to his lips. “I know what you want, but it cannot be. I am no fit wife for you. I am bastard born.”

“I don’t care. I love you best of anyone. “

…

“The Lord of the Eyrie can do as he likes. Can’t I still love you, even if I have to marry her? Ser Harrold has a common woman. Benjicot says she’s carrying his bastard.”

Benjicot should learn to keep his fool’s mouth shut. “Is that what you would have from me? A bastard?” She pulled her fingers from his grasp. “Would you dishonor me that way?”

The boy looked stricken. “No. I never meant — “

Alayne stood. “If it please my lord, I must go and find my father. Someone needs to greet Lady Waynwood.” Before her little lord could find the words to protest, she gave him a quick curtsy and fled the bedchamber, sweeping down the hall and across a covered bridge to the Lord Protector’s apartments.

…

As [Harry & Alayne] waited for the music to resume, Alayne glanced at the dais, where Lord Robert sat staring at them. Please, she prayed, don’t let him start to twitch and shake. Not here. Not now. Maester Coleman would have made certain that he drank a strong dose of sweetmilk before the feast, but even so.

TWOW, Alayne I

It looks like LF wants to encourage Sweetrobin’s animosity towards Harry. Idk who Benjicot is working for (probably LF) but usually adults don’t go around telling small children about any bastards their cousins might have. And SR knowing that Harry stands to gain the most from his death is most definitely going to put a wedge between them. If the parallel between Lysa’s relationship with Cat holds for SR’s relationship with Harry then I think lord Hardyng might indeed fly.

[chrisdaw]

4 hours ago, Harry the Hair said:

It looks like LF wants to encourage Sweetrobin’s animosity towards Harry. Idk who Benjicot is working for (probably LF) but usually adults don’t go around telling small children about any bastards their cousins might have. And SR knowing that Harry stands to gain the most from his death is most definitely going to put a wedge between them. If the parallel between Lysa’s relationship with Cat holds for SR’s relationship with Harry then I think lord Hardyng might indeed fly.

No it looks nothing like that, how the hell does that benefit LF? What is best for LF is everyone is happy families until Sansa takes in Harry and they're married and then Robert can die tragically, quietly and blamelessly.

The ignoring of Robert and his ideas about Harry is what's going to come to fuck over someone, maybe Sansa herself but more likely LF, it is a parallel to everyone ignoring what LF was feeding Joffrey in KL which lead to Joff executing Ned and ruining everyone's plans.

It's a question of if the person feeding Robert (I'll take Lyn for now) really has a thought out long term plan or if they just have an axe to grind with LF and are throwing spanners into the works wherever they may to fuck with him.